Sportsnet: Seattle forced to see former Sonics in finals

[lefty]

Seattle forced to see former Sonics in finals

Nick Collison and Kevin Durant (shown) are the only two Thunder players who actually played for the Sonics in Seattle. (Photo: AP/Ted S. Warren)

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June 12, 2012, 1:15 pm


THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
SEATTLE -- Before they became critically acclaimed do entary filmmakers, Adam Brown and Jason Reid were just basketball junkies. And being hoops aficionados, Brown and Reid can appreciate the way the Oklahoma City Thunder play.
But all it takes is one screen shot of owner Clay Bennett or one mention of Oklahoma City's past incarnation as the Seattle SuperSonics to remind them why they can never cheer for the Thunder.
"If this team was still here they would be the most fun and exciting team to watch in the league," said Brown, who was co-director of the "Sonicsgate" do entary that chronicled the SuperSonics' departure in 2008. "It's been so hard to root against a team that plays such an exciting brand of basketball."
Seeing Oklahoma City win the Western Conference crown last week was tough enough for Seattle fans. Now come the NBA finals beginning Tuesday night against Miami and the chance that just four years after a messy divorce from the city of Seattle, the Thunder could be NBA champs, which would only twist the figurative knife for Sonics fans still smarting from the franchise's flight.
Outside of South Florida, there may be no larger collection of Heat fans for the next two weeks than in the Pacific Northwest.
Who knew Seattle could be so crazy for LeBron James and the rest of Miami's stars?
Seattle Mariners ace Felix Hernandez, who has a shrine of Heat jerseys and memorabilia next to his clubhouse locker, said his Twitter feed was filled Saturday night with Seattle fans saying they'd be pulling for the Heat in the Finals.
"I'll win, they'll win. We'll get two wins on Tuesday," said Hernandez, who'll be pitching for the Mariners on Tuesday night while Game 1 is taking place in Oklahoma City.
There is very little connection remaining between the current Thunder team and the former Sonics.
Nick Collison and Kevin Durant are the only two Thunder players who actually played for the Sonics in Seattle. Collison, who lives in Seattle during the off-season, has been with the franchise since 2004, while Durant played his rookie season in Seattle.
"We still remember everything, the teams in Seattle that were going to the finals and won the finals back in '79, the Gary Paytons, the Shawn Kemps, the Detlef Schrempfs, the guys that played in this organization," Durant said. "But it feels good to have an opportunity to bring something to Oklahoma City."
What seems to irritate Seattle residents the most is hearing references to Sonics history, which Oklahoma City owns a share of as part of a settlement reached with Seattle. So when television announcers say it's the first finals appearance for the Thunder franchise since 1996, when the Sonics lost in six games to the Chicago Bulls, it adds to the heartache.
"They're the one championship team we've had here in Seattle," said Steven Rupp, who lives in the Queen Anne area around the Sonics' former home, KeyArena, and remembers when Sonics players lived in the neighbourhood. "It would have been good to keep them here."
For a while, Seattle was numb to the NBA. There was no interest, just bitter feelings about the departure of the Sonics after 41 years and the 1979 le. The championship trophy sits in storage at Seattle's Museum of History and Industry, which is moving to a new facility and hopes to have the trophy on display by the end of the year.
But slowly, an interest in the green and gold has been rekindled.
Jeff Scoma, owner of the Seattle Team Shop, said he stopped carrying any apparel associated with the team when the Sonics left.
About 18 months ago, some fans started inquiring about old Sonics gear. Now, about 5 per cent of his sales are related to vintage or throwback hats, shirts and jerseys honouring a franchise that no longer exists.
The timing of Oklahoma City's run to the finals creates a dichotomy for basketball diehards in the area, who are the midst of throwing their support behind a proposal from hedge-fund manager Chris Hansen for a new $490 million basketball arena, which would include nearly $300 million in private investment. The arena is at the heart of efforts to bring back the NBA.
Drumming up support for the arena proposal means showing that Seattle is a market with a great desire for the NBA to return.
Hansen's push includes a large public rally in downtown Seattle on Thursday afternoon featuring former Sonics stars Payton and Kemp. It'll take place just a couple of hours before Game 2 tips off in Oklahoma City.
"I want this city, the city of Seattle, to experience the joy that the citizens of Oklahoma City are experiencing right now," Kris Brannon, the self-proclaimed "Sonics Guy," told the Seattle City Council during recent public testimony about the arena. "By bringing an arena and bringing an NBA team back to Seattle, we can make that happen."
Added Brown: "Maybe all the anger and sadness people are feeling about Oklahoma City winning is the best thing we have to motivate our elected officials to get this deal done."


http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...ahoma_thunder/

[lefty]

Detlef Schrempf on the former Seattle SuperSonics: ‘We gave [the team] away. We screwed up.’



By Kelly Dwyer | Ball Don't Lie – 20 hours ago

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Detlef Schrempf tells it to you straight (Getty Images)
These are strange times for fans of the NBA, former fans of the Seattle SuperSonics, and fans of the former Seattle SuperSonics -- the Finals-leading Oklahoma City Thunder. Because the Thunder technically have the "rights" to the SuperSonics' history, you get annoying references to Oklahoma City being in the Finals for the first time since 1996, which they most certainly were not, and Seattle most certainly was. You get potshots, needlessly, from OKC fans. And you get frustrated Seattle fans, four years after a move that saw them say goodbye to a lottery team that blossomed into a Finals favorite in less than half a decade, wondering how to handle it.
Detlef Schrempf went to high school and college in Washington, played for the Seattle SuperSonics for that team's mid-1990s heyday, and still lives in Seattle. Detlef was born in Germany, and would like it if Seattle fans would get over their loneliness through sheer Bavarian willpower. In an interview with Chris Tomasson of Fox Sports, Detlef kindly says as much:

"I don't think they stole our team. It's a business. The NBA is making money. It's not a charitable organization. Somebody saw an opportunity to buy a team and bring something to their city. I don't see them (stealing) our team. We gave it away. Our leadership gave it away. Our politicians gave it away. We screwed up (by not agreeing to build a facility to replace outmoded Key Arena)."

That is the unfortunate truth. Seattle was completely screwed over by former SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz, who did a miserable job of running the team before further cementing the SuperSonics' eventual move by selling the team to two Oklahoma City businessmen ( o?) in the months following the sold-out crowds that greeted a just-visiting New Orleans Hornets team that was forced to play most of its home games in OKC following Hurricane Katrina.
And, yes, the shady (in this basketball realm, at least) OKC businessmen were caught in emails discussing the eventual move while still playing the "we're doing everything we can to keep this team in Seattle," even though we can safely assume this group (from Oklahoma City, mind you, sold to them by current Seattle resident and coffee price gouger Howard Schultz) never had any interest in keeping the team in an arena that would not make them money, with a new arena full of potential fans waiting for them in Oklahoma City.
Seattle still voted against a new arena, though. And the city didn't have the leadership enough to encourage a better local buyer both in 2001 (with Schultz) and 2006 (with the OKC group). To say nothing of developing a more agreeable arena plan.
Schrempf, like a goodly chunk of the American viewing public, will be rooting for the Thunder in these Finals, but not just for their uneasy history with the city he calls home. From Tomasson's piece:

"I like the way they play as a team and the passion they have," Schrempf said. "I know a couple (of players) on the team and a couple of guys who are still sitting behind the bench (the equipment manager and strength coach being holdovers from Seattle) working hard. So I'll definitely pull for them.
"It's not the same team," Schrempf said. "There's nothing left from the Sonics, really. There's no tradition. It's a totally new organization, a different city."

This is fair.
Tomasson went on to quote several other famous SuperSonics, including 1979 NBA champion and current Minnesota Timberwolves assistant coach Jack Sikma (who is still pretty ticked, on record, at the Thunder; which is rare for someone who still works with NBA teams), Gary Payton (who, as you'd guess, doesn't really give a [stick-shift]), and Lenny Wilkens (who, because he's Lenny Wilkens, provided a calm and rational look at both sides and just kidding I fell asleep before I read his full quote). It's a great piece, and a great read.
Schrempf, perhaps mindful that his comments (though spot on) might rub some Seattleites the wrong way, took to Twitter on Wednesday to remind fans that the area still does have potential local prospects in terms of new owners and a place to stick an NBA-ready arena. And, because the NBA and the Thunder aren't completely evil, the agreements are in place for any new Seattle team to take back the colors, team name, banners, historical records, and 1979 NBA championship trophy (it wasn't called the Lawrence O'Brien trophy, back then, because he was the one handing it out) should Seattle find a way to bring the NBA back.
Until then, we agree with Detlef. The time for rancor is over, unless you see Schultz at the barstool next to yours, and it's time to move on.
Detlef wouldn't steer you wrong.

[baseline bum]

Sonicsgate

We wouldn't build them an arena and can't understand why they left

[baseline bum]

would be hilarious if they played game 5 in Sonics throwbacks like the Nets did in 03.

[Clipper Nation]

Sonicsgate

We wouldn't build them an arena and can't understand why they left

Gee, I wonder why Seattle wasn't so willing to pay for yet another new arena at the start of a recession when they had already s ed out for the KeyArena renovation, Safeco Field, and Qwest Field in the recent past. Maybe they should have raised the regressive sales tax that hurts the poor like OKC did to keep the team.

[Findog]

The Key Arena renovation was 12 years old when the Sonics bolted. They had already paid at taxpayer expense for a major renovation of the Key that was 9 years old when Schultz started bellyaching about a new arena.

I've been there. It's a great arena to watch a basketball game in. It just doesn't have the footspace for the ancillary bull like a TGI Friday's or a sports bar on the arena grounds. They'd have to tear down a bunch of nearby stuff in the Seattle Center complex.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Cities paying for arenas is in re ed in general and is one example of how backwards the country is imo. The city paying for a new arena so ownership doesn't have to enables the owners to pay the players millions. With the way it currently works tax payers are indirectly paying the 7-8 figure salaries of the players. I'm not sure why it's become so acceptable for a city to build a team an arena with taxpayer money so the team can use the arena as a cash cow and not give any revenue back to the city.

[da_suns_fan]

Bottom line is that you HAVE to have public money to subsidize arenas.

If the taxpayers had voted differently, it would be the Sonics in the finals right now.

[Findog]

Cities paying for arenas is in re ed in general and is one example of how backwards the country is imo. The city paying for a new arena so ownership doesn't have to enables the owners to pay the players millions. With the way it currently works tax payers are indirectly paying the 7-8 figure salaries of the players. I'm not sure why it's become so acceptable for a city to build a team an arena with taxpayer money so the team can use the arena as a cash cow and not give any revenue back to the city.

Yes let's lay off schoolteachers, close libraries and city parks and not fix potholes because some millionaire can't be bothered to finance arena construction himself. Of course it doesn't help when some bum cowtown like Oklahoma City is willing to come along and fit the bill for an arena. The owners play these cities off one another: "Well if you won't build me an arena, I'm sure Louisville/Cincinnati/Columbus/Kansas City/Las Vegas will."

[Findog]

Bottom line is that you HAVE to have public money to subsidize arenas.

If the taxpayers had voted differently, it would be the Sonics in the finals right now.

That's the reality, but that doesn't make it right. It's like if Seattle won't build a new arena, Las Vegas/KC/Cincinnati/Columbus/Louisville will. Until the owners lose that leverage, nothing will change.

[da_suns_fan]

Whos haunted more by the Thunder?

Seattle (for losing the team) or Portland (for passing on Jordan and now Durant)?

[Findog]

Whos haunted more by the Thunder?

Seattle (for losing the team) or Portland (for passing on Jordan and now Durant)?

Seattle. Portland's team sucks, but they still have one.

[ChumpDumper]

Gee, I wonder why Seattle wasn't so willing to pay for yet another new arena at the start of a recession when they had already s ed out for the KeyArena renovation, Safeco Field, and Qwest Field in the recent past.

So they shouldn't whine about the Sonics' leaving.

Enjoy the Storm.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yes let's lay off schoolteachers, close libraries and city parks and not fix potholes because some millionaire can't be bothered to finance arena construction himself. Of course it doesn't help when some bum cowtown like Oklahoma City is willing to come along and fit the bill for an arena. The owners play these cities off one another: "Well if you won't build me an arena, I'm sure Louisville/Cincinnati/Columbus/Kansas City/Las Vegas will."

Agreed on all counts. The problem is if one city takes a stand another city desperate for a team will come along and offer to finance an arena. The other problem is the average American is stupid enough to believe, "Your tax dollars are going to this arena because it'll improve the city's economy!" and don't have the mental capacity to realize that their tax dollars are paying the 7-8 figure salaries to athletes they complain about as spoiled brats.

[tesseractive]

Bottom line is that you HAVE to have public money to subsidize arenas.

If the taxpayers had voted differently, it would be the Sonics in the finals right now.

No it wouldn't. No way does Presti come work for that dumbass Schultz in Seattle. They'd still have Durant, but no way does some second-tier GM build a finals-grade team around him by age 23.

And yes, public money is necessary. But at a point where your whole state (as well as many others) is falling into a major budget crisis, I can't think of anything more obscene than the state paying out hundreds of millions to subsidize the guy who founded ing Starbucks.

[Findog]

No it wouldn't. No way does Presti come work for that dumbass Schultz in Seattle. They'd still have Durant, but no way does some second-tier GM build a finals-grade team around him by age 23.

And yes, public money is necessary. But at a point where your whole state (as well as many others) is falling into a major budget crisis, I can't think of anything more obscene than the state paying out hundreds of millions to subsidize the guy who founded ing Starbucks.

Presti's done a good job, but my understanding is that they would've taken Oden if they had the first pick. That being the case, you're not making a Finals with Oden, Westbrook and Harden.

[tesseractive]

Presti's done a good job, but my understanding is that they would've taken Oden if they had the first pick. That being the case, you're not making a Finals with Oden, Westbrook and Harden.

I wasn't speaking at all about whether Presti would have made it without Durant. I was addressing whether the Sonics would have made this years finals if the team had gotten a new arena. The Howard Schultz Sonics with an arena don't get Presti, and without him, they don't make the finals this year.

If Presti had gotten Oden instead of Durant, I'm not sure what would have happened. Being a student of the 2000 Tim Duncan injury, he definitely wouldn't have rushed Oden back onto the court. I frankly don't have a clue whether that would have made a difference in Oden's career, but I think it's a legitimate question.

[dunkman]

It was obvious Durant was an MJ/LeBron type talent, even before the draft. It wasn't very smart to give the team away.

[lefty]

Cities paying for arenas is in re ed in general and is one example of how backwards the country is imo. The city paying for a new arena so ownership doesn't have to enables the owners to pay the players millions. With the way it currently works tax payers are indirectly paying the 7-8 figure salaries of the players. I'm not sure why it's become so acceptable for a city to build a team an arena with taxpayer money so the team can use the arena as a cash cow and not give any revenue back to the city.

Goldwater files lawsuit in Coyotes deal

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GLENDALE, Ariz. — The conservative watchdog group Goldwater Ins ute has filed a lawsuit seeking to invalidate the Glendale City Council's vote to approve a lease agreement for Jobing.com Arena with a potential buyer of the Phoenix Coyotes.

The lawsuit was filed Wednesday in Maricopa County Superior Court on behalf of Glendale taxpayers Ken Jones and Joe Cobb, claiming last week's vote violated a 2009 court order requiring Glendale to provide all do ents in negotiations between the city and a prospective owner to Goldwater in a timely manner.

The council voted 4-2 on Friday to approve the 20-year, $325 million lease agreement with former San Jose Sharks CEO Greg Jamison, who is leading a group that hopes to buy the Coyotes from the NHL. It also approved a non-relocation agreement requiring substantial financial penalties if Jamison were to move the team.

Goldwater claims the city did not make two exhibits in the proposed deal available to the public before Friday's council meeting and asked the court to nullify the vote.

It also contends the council did not have the required approval from five of seven council members — one was absent from Friday's meeting — for the agreement to be approved as an emergency measure, which allows it to go into effect immediately. Measures typically don't go into effect for 30 days and may be put before voters if enough signatures are collected.

The lawsuit further claims the city violated its own charter by casting a vote on a proposed management agreement without putting an arena management contract out to bid.

In a separate filing, Goldwater asked that Glendale be held in contempt for violating the 2009 order by not releasing the exhibits.

A show cause hearing has been scheduled for Tuesday before Superior Court Judge Dean Fink.

"We continue to hope that the city will construct a lawful deal that protects the interests of Glendale taxpayers," said Goldwater Ins ute President Darcy Olsen. "Without seeing critical exhibits contained in the arena management agreement such as the arena annual budget or the arena management performance standards, it is not possible to determine the cons utional validity of the agreement."

The NHL has operated the Coyotes since former owner Jerry Moyes took the team into bankruptcy in 2009. The team has still managed success on the ice, making the playoffs all three years, but the ownership saga has been filled with failed negotiations and uncertainty.

Goldwater thwarted a potential deal with Chicago businessman Matthew Hulsizer last year when it warned potential bond buyers to stay away from the Glendale offering because of a looming lawsuit.

The NHL announced during the playoffs that it had a preliminary agreement with Jamison and the lease agreement for Jobing.com Arena was seen as the only major hurdle left in the deal.

Goldwater asked for a temporary restraining order to prevent Friday's council vote, but Superior Court Judge Katherine Cooper denied the restraining order, saying the court lacked the jurisdiction. She did add that there were "clear violations" of the 2009 court order.

During the meeting, an economic study showed the city would have a benefit of $17 million from the deal that would pay Jamison $203 million and include an average of $15 million in operating costs. The study estimated $177 million in operating costs for the arena should the Coyotes leave it without an anchor tenant.

The final report for the economic study was not given to council members until about midway through a contentious council meeting that lasted more than six hours, but they still voted in favor of the deal.

Jamison, who attended the meeting with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, is currently working on a final agreement with the league to buy the team and both sides said they hoped to have approval from the NHL board of governors within a couple of weeks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

ok?


thinking I care about the Coyotes

[lefty]

ok?


thinking I care about the Coyotes

Not that

But the fact that Goldwater thinks what you think (well kinda)

[baseline bum]

Honestly, I voted for the Spurs arena deal because the team is way more important to me than teachers, police, and so on.

[lefty]

I hope Karma is real .......

[Sportcamper]

Bottom line is that you HAVE to have public money to subsidize arenas.
If the taxpayers had voted differently, it would be the Sonics in the finals right now.

That is soo not true…In LA it is a privilege to have your sports team located here…Staples was funded privately…The Fabulous Forum was funded privately…

[baseline bum]

That is soo not true…In LA it is a privilege to have your sports team located here…Staples was funded privately…The Fabulous Forum was funded privately…

No , having a market of 18 million people trumps getting an arena half paid for?