Reply With Quote
Obama is personally responsible for F&F. It's Gecko/Ryan's October surprise.
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/...2#.UGoB8U3R58E
On January 30, 2010, a commando of at least 20 hit men parked themselves outside a birthday party of high school and college students in Villas de Salvarcar, Ciudad Juarez. Near midnight, the assassins, later identified as hired guns for the Mexican cartel La Linea, broke into a one-story house and opened fire on a gathering of nearly 60 teenagers. Outside, lookouts gunned down a screaming neighbor and several students who had managed to escape. Fourteen young men and women were killed, and 12 more were wounded before the hit men finally fled.
Indirectly, the United States government played a role in the massacre by supplying some of the firearms used by the cartel murderers. Three of the high caliber weapons fired that night in Villas de Salvarcar were linked to a gun tracing operation run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), according to a Mexican army do ent obtained exclusively by Univision News.
Univision News identified a total of 57 more previously unreported firearms that were bought by straw purchasers monitored by ATF during Operation Fast and Furious, and then recovered in Mexico in sites related to murders, kidnappings, and at least one other massacre.
As part of Operation Fast and Furious, ATF allowed 1,961 guns to "walk" out of the U.S. in an effort to identify the high profile cartel leaders who received them. The agency eventually lost track of the weapons, and they often ended up in the hands of Mexican hit men , including those who ordered and carried out the attack on Salvarcar and El Aliviane, a rehabilitation center in Ciudad Juarez where 18 young men were killed on September 2, 2009.
In Mexico, the timing of the operation coincided with an upsurge of violence in the war among the country's strongest cartels. In 2009, the northern Mexican states served as a battlefield for the Sinaloa and Juarez drug trafficking organizations, and as expansion territory for the increasingly powerful Zetas. According to do ents obtained by Univision News, from October of that year to the end of 2010, nearly 175 weapons from Operation Fast and Furious inadvertently armed the various warring factions across northern Mexico.
"Many weapons cross the border and enter Mexico, but that [Fast and Furious] number, quan y and type of weapons had quite an impact in the war in this area" Jose Wall, an ATF agent stationed in Tijuana from 2009 to 2011, told Univision News.
Following the death of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry at the hands of Mexican bandits on December 14, 2010, media and Congressional investigations prompted hearings. On September 20, the U.S. Department of Justice Office of the Inspector General report, which opened the door for sanctions of 14 ATF and DOJ officials.
In Washington, the Fast and Furious scandal became politicized, diverting the attention from the human cost in Mexico to political battles on Capitol Hill. In June, a vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt ignored the real tragedy in Mexico.
"Americans are not often moved by the pain of those outside [their country]…" Javier Sicilia, a Mexican poet whose son was killed in the midst of the violence, told Univision News. "But they are moved by the pain of their own. Well, turn around and watch the massacres."
The Univision News investigation also found ATF offices from states besides Arizona pursued similar misguided strategies. In Florida, the weapons from Operation Castaway ended up in the hands of criminals inColombia, Honduras and Venezuela (link audio crumpler), the lead informant in the case told Univision News in a prison interview.
"When the ATF stopped me, they told me the guns were going to cartels," Hugh Crumpler, a Vietnam veteran turned arms trafficker, told Univision News. "The ATF knew before I knew and had been following me for a considerable length of time. They could not have followed me for two months like they said they did, and not know the guns were going somewhere, and not want for that to be happening."
Other firearms under ATF surveillance were permitted to leave the country from Texas, according to court do ents and the exclusive testimony of Magdalena Avila Villalobos, the sister of an ICE agent who survived a confrontation with cartel hit men on a rural highway in Mexico on February 15, 2011. His fellow agent, Jaime Zapata, was killed during the attacks.
"It's not from Arizona and Fast and Furious," Avila Villalobos told Univision News, speaking in her brother's stead for the first time, "but it's a very similar operation..." She later added, "Those weapons that have been recovered, it's been confirmed that they were weapons used in the shootout that killed Jaime Zapata and wounded Victor Avila."
The Texas-based operation and the firearms linked to the attack were bought by two trafficking rings in the state, according to Raymond Thomas, the Zapata family's lawyer.
Earlier this year, Texas Senator John Cornyn had echoed Thomas' assertions . Moreover, on September 25, Congressman Darrell Issa and Senator Charles Grassley, the politicians behind the Fast and Furious congressional report released in July, sent a letter to the Department of Justice's Office of the Inspector General, requesting an investigation into Avila's and Zapata's case.
Obama is personally responsible for F&F. It's Gecko/Ryan's October surprise.
Last edited by boutons_deux; 10-01-2012 at 04:27 PM.
For once we agree on something. Maybe not the October surprise part.
lol personally responsible
LOL, neither one of us knows for sure.
Buck stops where?
lol you certainly have your mind made up
As do you, apparently
oh yeah
LOL
I firmly believe that if the ATF agents on the ground in Arizona hadn't snitched to congress about F&F that Holder and Obama would have used Agent Terry's death as the posterchild for reinstating the assault rifle ban.
I respect your right to believe differently.
Holder should be fired..you're just now realizing this ? There ain't going to be any accountability from the blue team..don't hold your breath.
Kinda like you ignored the IG's report from mid-September?
And you guys are not even framing the argument correctly. The GOP is trying --and failing-- to pin it on Holder. Maybe if they can get that right --every dog has its day?-- then you can talk about the POTUS.
I normally stay out of these discussions but CC's gross confirmation bias and intellectual laziness just irk me. I have always wondered though why you guys do not talk about Operation Wide Receiver?
Does reynold's wrap work or does it have to be tin?
What part is being ignored?
it only stops with GeKKKO and repugs
/bd
It does feel underreported compared to something like Watergate, which was like a journalistic call-to-arms even though no one died from it. Something stinks really bad about F&F, just waiting for a Woodward or Bernstein type to nail it.
LOL about Holders justice department investigating itself. You are one gullible dumb if you gave that report any credence.
Talk about confirmation bias...
Wide Receiver was done AS A ING PARTNERSHIP WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT AND THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT TRACKED THE GUNS AFTER THEY CROSSED THE BORDER.
GFY you arrogant little unformed prick.
There's no "smoking gun" yet... Watergate had the tape.
Was it a up from the DoJ? Sure. Should Holder et all be hanged by the balls for such up? I think so.
But to go Cosmored and claim this is some conspiracy to toughen gun laws, you need hard evidence. In watergate, that was the white house tapes.
lol CosmoredCowboy
that's a reasonable reply. i just hate seeing partisan hackery in response to this situation. I don't know if there is a smoking gun, but I hope there is at least enough people looking for it.
LOL BouChump
There's partisan hackery because there's an election coming up. As far as people looking for a smoking gun, I suspect there won't be after the election, tbh
You're the one who agreed Obama is personally responsible then walked back, then doubled down.
Make up your mind.
this thing does stink.
at least there's some humor from the guys that spent 8 years looking the other way.
It was administered by the internal affairs for the Department. Other than a blanket dismissal is there anything else you can provide to simply dismiss it out of hand.
LOL about Holders justice department investigating itself. You are one gullible dumb if you gave that report any credence.
Talk about confirmation bias...
Wide Receiver was done AS A ING PARTNERSHIP WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT AND THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT TRACKED THE GUNS AFTER THEY CROSSED THE BORDER.
GFY you arrogant little unformed prick.
Are you trying to be ironic? Do you know what confirmation bias means? The DoJ IG report doesn't contradict anything of that and encompasses it as well. You just do not like the part where the IG doesn't point the finger where you want it pointed. That is confirmation bias.
I do not dispute the 'expose' but I am missing what in there is anything resembling new information. I am going to channel RG and point out that all you are doing here is some handwaving. You then follow that with trying to pin it on the POTUS when your GOP masters cannot even pin it on his AG.
As for OWR, I again do not know what the difference is. It's the same program but now its okay because the Mexicans went along with it? I can think of another distinction that would have you giving it a pass.
On a final note, lets make one thing clear: I do not like Obama. At all. I think he has done a piss poor job and most of that is due to him not having any rein over the federal bureaucracy. If I was trying to confirm anything it would be that not party -sucking such as you have mastered. I just remember the same nonsense with the GOP and Clinton. Its the same different day.
You think that the issues that journalists are having with the border cartels might have something to do with it?
Watergate had an anonymous source that got those two started and its one thing to do an investigation in Baltimore versus Juarez right now.
LOL at Team Red...
Willard paints himself brown for his Univision interview in a racist attempt to look Mexican:"Who cares, it's just Univision"
Univision basically comes out with a Faux News boilerplate Fast and Furious article:
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
