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I actually read this. The athleticism barrier is very true, most players in those days would not survive todays NBA.
These were supposedly some of the toughest defenses, everyone always is reminiscing about the ' hand checking' and how physical they could be back then, how lebron or kobe can't compare to jordan cause the nba is soft these days.
BULL . lol its amazing how much smaller and skinnier the players were back then, and the athleticism wasn't nearly what it is today. And all the foul calls look the same as today. To be honest all the crap people say about how tough these teams were and how hardcore compared to today, is just nostalgia.
Kobe or durant could have averaged 40ppg against these guys. Don't even start with lebron..he'd EASILY average 35 12 and 12. Easily. And freaks like howard or shaq could have put up bill russell type rebounding numbers.
I actually read this. The athleticism barrier is very true, most players in those days would not survive todays NBA.
PED HGH
Is it why Pierce, Kobe, Iverson, TMac and Vince all magically had a dramatic boost in PPG the very year they eliminated hand check?
lol using athleticism as an argument
I remember there was a hand check button in NBA Live 2001
was fun as
To everyone that says "scorers today would struggle then because physical play was allowed" you need to realize that the great defenders of those days would struggle in today's leagues. They'd all foul out in 18 minutes. The argument works both ways
I've watched ball since the 80's and I love watching the hardwood classic games televised, especially of the late 80's early 90's. Now that being said the bball IQ was overall higher than today's ball, namely due to guys playing more college ball and being a little more rounded. However, the athlethic gap is definitely there as it was from the 60's and 70's to the 80's and 90's and so on. It's hard to say how much Kobe, Iverson or Lebron would average as team scoring has been dwindling since the 80's. Also outside shooting and specialists that are so prominent nowadays and I remember when Craig Hodges came on the scene. Wathching him now with 2013 bball eyes it's nothing more than a spot up shooter with range, granted awesome range. Not every team back then even had that and with zone defenses this is a must in today's game. The game keeps evolving.
Also, not pull age into the discussion, but if you didn't live through the 80's you can't really have an open and honest opionion on this subject. Nostalgia aside of course.
OP is a got
thats a silly argument, thats like saying history doesnt mean anything unless you were alive at the time...
Jordan still had the skills to thrive in todays game. But rofl that anyone denies lebronwouldnt absolutely dominate back then. He could literally dunk on every possession. There were no freaks like that back then. howard would have got 19 rpg.
The athleticism gap is very true, but one has to remember that at that time fundamentals were far more valuable. We call Lebron James an "elite defender" just because he's athletic enough to defend most people. Twenty-five years ago we called Dennis Rodman an elite defender because he knew how to defend anybody in front of him.
Kobe Bryant would fair far worse because his greatest obstacles were the likes of Battier and Bowen, two unathletic defenders with some fundamentals. Is Hakeem a better defender than a far more athletic Shaq? Is Tim Duncan a better defender than a far more athletic & younger Dwight Howard? As time went by, fundamentals eroded and were replaced by athleticism. If the two were combined we would have players on par with Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
I'm not saying History doesn't matter, it's just colored and adapted for whatever end means one wants. Having lived through it and witnessing what transpires will still hold more weight then reading or watching it at a later date. Try watching a movie you watched when you were a kid now and see how that works and all that baggage you have carried with you over the years impacts your opinion on said movie. We all do this, sports is the same way. Just like some movies transcend and still hold "up", some players do too, IE MJ.
Ok I'll bite. Kobe would have been just fine in the 80's or 90's as his jumping ability would transcend guys "thugging" him and trying to be physical. Kobe's greatest obstacles weren't guys who he routinely scored over 40 points on bro. Depends on the era, MJ was being stopped by savvy vets ie the Pistons of old, until he grew into his body and started using his brain with his body instead of just his athleticism. Same with Kobe. He used to get "stopped" by Bonzi Wells, Ruben Patterson, even Steve Smith and Scottie Pippen would use their savvy and physicallity to limit his athleticism. It was only until he got a little older and mature that he found other ways to score and be relevant. All great players do this.
I had stated his greatest obstacles were players who had knew the fundamentals of defense, not play "thug defense". More players knew how to defend in the previous two decades before the turn of the millennium.
Yeah I can agree with your last point. The issue was not being able to defend or having a good team concept. The issue lies in their overall combined ability physically and mentally and when players like Kareem, Dr J, Pistol Pete, Bird, Magic, MJ, Isiah, Barkley, Drob, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron they all transcended their positions during their time and became blueprints for the generation ahead.
That depends on if they had a boost in point production the years previous to the hand check rule. The hand check rule is a wasted argument if you're not gonna mention the fact that the player could forcefully knock that hand away without getting called for fouls like today.
its still easier to focus on a shot, get your shoulders squared, and get good elevation on your shot when you aren't worrying about forcefully knocking that hand away
That's true if your a spot up shooter but in todays game of one on one stars... tbey would benefit from being able to swipe the defenders hand down. It totally gives the offensive player the advantage. Magic and Jordan were masters at that skill.
Jordans last shot as a Bull is a perfect example.
Which is the point. You can't play defense the way you could. Making it much easier to score from the perimeter in today's league.
players back then didn't have steroid to help grow muscles, nor dead baby's cells to help cure injuries.
your "rugged defenders" from the previous era would be in foul trouble in today's game, is my point. or they won't be nearly as effective defensively. there is some give and take. easier to defend, tougher to score back then. easier to score, tougher to defend today. do you think larry bird would have been an effective defender in today's game?
You are basically saying that yesteryear's offensive players had it rough because they were being mugged by defenders who would foul out in today's games. In other words, today's perimeter players can score a lot easier because defenders can't do what defenders from 20 years ago could.
It's not having it both ways, its the exact same point.
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