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  1. #1
    Believe.
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    13mil assuming we keep Danny and Kawhi's holds and renounce everyone else.

    My order of tries would be.

    1. Offer Gasol 13mil
    2. Offer Aldridge 13mil
    3. Offer Greg Monroe 13mil
    4. See if I can get Khris Middleton for cheaper than Danny Green
    5. Maybe offer Monta Ellis 10mil~ to come try to be Manu for a couple years
    6. Offer Deng 6-8mil

    If all of these fail(likely)


    Try to get KJ Mcdaniels with a Lin type contract.
    Try to get Brandon Bass with the rest
    See if Lin is available for really cheap
    Bring over Livio
    Try to ninja Antic from the Hawks
    If Wes Matthews is cheap.. take a flyer on him


    Side note. I didn't realize Bertans tore his ACL again. That blows.



    What do you want to spend the cap space on? Are you willing to lose Danny or Tiago for Aldridge or Gasol or Love?

  2. #2
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    1. Keep Leonard
    2. Keep Green
    3. Convince Tim to keep playing
    4. ???????
    5. Profit

  3. #3
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    1. Keep Leonard
    2. Keep Green
    3. Convince Tim to keep playing
    4. ???????
    5. Profit
    THis

  4. #4
    Believe.
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    1. Keep Leonard
    2. Keep Green
    3. Convince Tim to keep playing
    4. ???????
    5. Profit
    What do you do with the cap space? Do you think Tim would take the MLE if we could add a Manu replacement with the extra money

  5. #5
    Veteran Richie's Avatar
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    If Gasol or Aldridge want to come, we can dump Splitter or Green to get max room. If we're bringing in a big man, I'd rather it be Splitter.

  6. #6
    near awake, semi-coherent
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    If Gasol or Aldridge want to come, we can dump Splitter or Green to get max room. If we're bringing in a big man, I'd rather it be Splitter.

    Under no cir stances do you dump green. He's not going to be cheap but he's over himself at this point, he fits well into the spurs system is very good defensively and can guard most small forwards and pretty much all guards at both spots. With green the key is a 3 year with 4th year team option. You use that contract and look to trade it in the 3rd year.

  7. #7
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Under no cir stances do you dump green. He's not going to be cheap but he's over himself at this point, he fits well into the spurs system is very good defensively and can guard most small forwards and pretty much all guards at both spots. With green the key is a 3 year with 4th year team option. You use that contract and look to trade it in the 3rd year.
    Agreed

  8. #8
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Yeah, keeping Green should be priority 1b right after Kawhi. You don't break up WingStop, especially since the Spurs have arguably the worst defensive PG in the league.

    Other than that it's really hard to project anything until we know Timmy and Manu's plans. I really want Afflalo on the team though, regardless of whether they retire or not. Have him eat up minutes at both SG and SF--I think he can be had for 7-9 mill/yr. Burn, bury and take a piss on Belli tbh.

  9. #9
    BOlieve manufan10's Avatar
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    Yeah, keeping Green should be priority 1b right after Kawhi. You don't break up WingStop, especially since the Spurs have arguably the worst defensive PG in the league.
    And TP is not going to get any better on defense either. In fact, he'll probably wind up getting worse once he starts losing his speed.

  10. #10
    Believe. Andthentherewas21's Avatar
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    Yeah, keeping Green should be priority 1b right after Kawhi. You don't break up WingStop, especially since the Spurs have arguably the worst defensive PG in the league.

    Other than that it's really hard to project anything until we know Timmy and Manu's plans. I really want Afflalo on the team though, regardless of whether they retire or not. Have him eat up minutes at both SG and SF--I think he can be had for 7-9 mill/yr. Burn, bury and take a piss on Belli tbh.
    So you don't want Parker (a guy with a career 104 defensive rating, and 107 this season) but you want a SG/SF which is more important defensively and has a career defensive rating of 111 and had his only season below 110 this year at 108? Interesting...

    Quick correction, he was at 111 for the 2014-2015 season, his 108 was for his 25 games in Portland.

  11. #11
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    So you don't want Parker (a guy with a career 104 defensive rating, and 107 this season) but you want a SG/SF which is more important defensively and has a career defensive rating of 111 and had his only season below 110 this year at 108? Interesting...
    Just curious, but what are these ratings based on, and where did they come from?

  12. #12
    Believe. Andthentherewas21's Avatar
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    Just curious, but what are these ratings based on, and where did they come from?
    Basketball Reference.

    Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

    The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

    The formula for Stops is:

    Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
    where:

    Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
    FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
    DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
    DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
    Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
    Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

    Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
    With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

    DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
    where:

    Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
    D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)

  13. #13
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    So you don't want Parker (a guy with a career 104 defensive rating, and 107 this season) but you want a SG/SF which is more important defensively and has a career defensive rating of 111 and had his only season below 110 this year at 108? Interesting...

    Quick correction, he was at 111 for the 2014-2015 season, his 108 was for his 25 games in Portland.
    Are you suggesting Enrique is a better defender than Afflalo, moron? He's spent most of his career in Denver and Orlando. The former was a run and gun team and the latter was a dumpster fire during his stints there. The fact that his teams weren't good defensively doesn't change the fact that he himself is a good defender, just like the Spurs being a good defensive team doesn't make Enrique a good defender.

  14. #14
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Basketball Reference.

    Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

    The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

    The formula for Stops is:

    Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
    where:

    Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
    FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
    DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
    DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
    Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
    Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

    Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
    With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

    DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
    where:

    Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
    D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)
    In other words extremely dependent on the team. Belli has been a defender his entire career yet his DRtg magically went from 115 his rookie year, to 107 in Chicago, to 106 and 105 in SA. DRPM gives a much better idea of individual defense.

  15. #15
    Believe. Andthentherewas21's Avatar
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    Are you suggesting Enrique is a better defender than Afflalo, moron? He's spent most of his career in Denver and Orlando. The former was a run and gun team and the latter was a dumpster fire during his stints there. The fact that his teams weren't good defensively doesn't change the fact that he himself is a good defender, just like the Spurs being a good defensive team doesn't make Enrique a good defender.
    No that's you inferring, re . The point was that you provided no evidence that Parker was a below average defender while suggesting that the Spurs go after a player who statistically hasn't shown to be a great defender. The fact that Afflalo's teams weren't great defensively doesn't somehow make him a great defender despite it all and Parker a worse one for being on a good defensive team.

    I get the whole hating on Parker schtick, and he hasn't been great this season, but at least support your ty takes

  16. #16
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    No that's you inferring, re . The point was that you provided no evidence that Parker was a below average defender while suggesting that the Spurs go after a player who statistically hasn't shown to be a great defender. The fact that Afflalo's teams weren't great defensively doesn't somehow make him a great defender despite it all and Parker a worse one for being on a good defensive team.

    I get the whole hating on Parker schtick, and he hasn't been great this season, but at least support your ty takes
    Look at my sig, moron. What more proof do you need? He's 82nd out of 83 PGs in DRPM. Not to mention the fact that we see marginal players like Ray MaCallum, Langston Galloway and Norris Cole go off on him on a regular basis.

    Also what part of DRtg being extremely dependent on team defense do you not understand? defenders like Enrique and Belli will have a lower DRtg than a guy like Afflalo simply for being on the Spurs.

  17. #17
    Believe. Andthentherewas21's Avatar
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    Look at my sig, moron. What more proof do you need? He's 82nd out of 83rd PGs in DRPM. Not to mention the fact that we see marginal players like Ray MaCallum, Langston Galloway and Norris Cole go off on him on a regular basis.

    Also what part of DRtg being extremely dependent on team defense do you not understand? defenders like Enrique and Belli will have a lower DRtg than a guy like Afflalo simply for being on the Spurs.
    So because your a Leonard fan you can't be a Parker fan? So your not a Spurs fan?

    I'll admit that Drtg is team dependent so let's use DPRM as you suggest. In 2013-2014 Parker's DPRM was -0.4 (25th) , Afflalo's was -2.95 (66th). In 2014-2015 Parker's was -3.66 (82nd) and Afflalo's was -1.52 (65th). Now Parker was visibly hobbled by a hamstring injury for the better part of the season, but perhaps he has declined quite a bit. What's Afflalo's excuse for the poor defensive production and his placement on the list?

  18. #18
    hope and change
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    Most productive thing Spurs can do this off season is unload Parker somehow. Then go get Dragic. Keep the rest of the team intact, except Manu, hopefully he retires

  19. #19
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Most productive thing Spurs can do this off season is unload Parker somehow. Then go get Dragic. Keep the rest of the team intact, except Manu, hopefully he retires
    Agreed.

  20. #20
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    So because your a Leonard fan you can't be a Parker fan? So your not a Spurs fan?

    I'll admit that Drtg is team dependent so let's use DPRM as you suggest. In 2013-2014 Parker's DPRM was -0.4 (25th) , Afflalo's was -2.95 (66th). In 2014-2015 Parker's was -3.66 (82nd) and Afflalo's was -1.52 (65th). Now Parker was visibly hobbled by a hamstring injury for the better part of the season, but perhaps he has declined quite a bit. What's Afflalo's excuse for the poor defensive production and his placement on the list?
    I don't mind Enrique when he isn't hurting the team.

    No, the hamstring excuse doesn't fly. He's been progressively dropping throughout the season and looks to have now settled at 82nd, at no point did he start moving up once he got 'healthy'. Afflalo usually has the responsibility of guarding the opposing team's best wing, he's no Kawhi or Danny but he'd be an ideal back-up to both. I'll admit I assumed his DRPM would've been better (I'd like to see what it's been in just Portland) but he's still a huge upgrade over Belli.

  21. #21
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    That Parker extension is looking really terrible now. No idea why they didn't just wait one more year before reupping Tony. Would have gotten him cheap after the mediocre season he's had this year.

  22. #22
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    It seems like this would be the summer to overpay for someone you really like. Those deals will at worst be neutral deals in 2 years and at best huge bargains. In this light, I like the scenario raised above for signing Danny.

    Other than Gasol or Aldridge (and resigning their own FAs) I'm not sure who else fits that bill for the Spurs though. I will say that the Spurs have a lot to offer either of those guys, chief among them a turnkey situation for immediate championship contention, and I'm not so quick to say landing one of them is impossible (sure, it'll be hard).

    The Spurs have made a commitment to reloading, over rebuilding, since they moved away from George Hill. In the last two seasons the big three have given way to a solid "medium" three of green, splitter, and Leonard. Looking ahead Parker still has a few good years left, and Leonard will only get better.

    Is memphis' (or even portland) plan that much better? I look at the Grizz in particular and really don't see a framework for the future. Zach and Allen, who are a huge part of that teams grit and grind iden y, are aging. The team has not evolved offensively, and have been unable (unwilling?) to land reliable outside shooting for several years now which has done them in in the playoffs for several years now. I say the Grizz are more positioned to be in rebuild mode in two years than they are reload mode.

    And coming back to the cap, if those teams are banking on being able to offer the most money then the new salary cap projections actually undercut Memphis (and portlands) leverage this summer. If you're that driven by the money, wouldn't you sign a short term deal and look for a better pay day once the cap adjusts? I'm not saying Gasol or Aldridge are leaving their situations, but they'll definitely have something to think about especially if you're the one bounced in round one.

  23. #23
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    So you don't want Parker (a guy with a career 104 defensive rating, and 107 this season) but you want a SG/SF which is more important defensively and has a career defensive rating of 111 and had his only season below 110 this year at 108? Interesting...

    Quick correction, he was at 111 for the 2014-2015 season, his 108 was for his 25 games in Portland.
    It actually shows Danny green's rating @100 for this year, which makes him the number 1 defensive starting SG for 2014-15. (starting means they started more than half of the games). By the same token, Parker is tied for 14th with 3 other PGs, so he is not the worst starting defensive PG (2014-15), but he is not the best. Danny Green shows to have had an excellent defensive year.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._per_poss.html

  24. #24
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    That Parker extension is looking really terrible now. No idea why they didn't just wait one more year before reupping Tony. Would have gotten him cheap after the mediocre season he's had this year.
    To the contrary, I would say it makes his deal more bearable.

  25. #25
    Since 1979 Das Texan's Avatar
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    I would just sign a better big and then S&T Splitter to whatever team had hte former big man.

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