Why Trump's Education Pick Scares Unions/US Students Slip Further Behind in Math/Sci

[rmt]

Why Trump's Education Pick Scares Unions

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-trum...ons-1480464943

As an aside, my youngest has to take the End-of-Course Algebra 1 and Geometry tests (EOC Algebra 1 is a graduation requirement) and I took the online Alg 1 practice test just for the fun of it. To my surprise, I could only do some of these problems - they were termed/phrased in such a way as to be unrecognizable as Algebra. I don't know if this is a result of Common Core, but it's nothing like traditional algebra. I used a highly regarded Dolciani Algebra text from the 80s (for all 3 kids) - which was the basis for dd who's gone thru Linear Algebra successfully.

Far East Strengthens Grip on Math, Science Rankings, US Students Slip Further Behind

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorr.../#17d1145c3719

Yah, Singapore Math (my favorite curriculum).

[boutons_deux]

Busting unions is, has been a key piece of the VRWC War on Employees, and a major reason since St Ronnie took office that real household income has stagnated while 1% incomes have skyrocketed

Busted unions is why and how BigCorp was able to kill Ms of good paying jobs by moving the business to ty wage countries.

Non-stop trashing of teachers as failures, cutting their compensation, etc, etc, make teacher salaries uncompe ive with the screwed-wage private sector.

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

Teacher churn due to low wages, LONG uncompensated hours, constant political intervention in teaching, continuously underfunded, overcrowded, it all takes it toll, and none of it is ing accidental or necessary. It's a strategy.

Betsy D is the perfect VRWC nuclear hit. Has been pushing hard for years to redistribute taxpayers $Ts from public schools to private schools, which includes her Christian Madrassas, further violating the separation clause to promote Christianity as THE religion of the USA.

What the VRWC has been doing, is continuing to do is standard strategy: up a govt function, then privatize it.

DeVos' for-profit BigCorp charter schools have a proven records as no better than public schools and often worse, much worse. And of course the teachers are ty because they get paid less, are not unionized.

[Clipper Nation]

Teachers' unions are one of the biggest problems with public education and one of the biggest reasons we lag behind other countries. Any education pick that scares those corrupt s bags is a great pick for anyone who wants a more educated America.

When the unions stop making it difficult to fire bad teachers, using LIFO provisions to stifle compe ion from new teachers, and making ridiculous contract demands (for example, teachers in Buffalo get unlimited plastic surgery on their school system's dime as part of their CBA) while the schools they teach at suffer from lack of funding, they don't get to point the finger anywhere else for their failure.

[boutons_deux]

For-profit charter schools are not unionized, compensation is lower, and produce equal or worse educational outcomes.

So what else could be the problem(s) if unions aren't really the problem?

[CosmicCowboy]

Gor-profit charter schools are not unionized, compensation is lower, and produce equal or worse educational outcomes.

So what else could be the problem(s) if unions aren't really the problem?

Students lack of cultural desire to learn?

[Clipper Nation]

The pay gap between public schools and charter schools on average has less to do with unions and more to do with the fact that charter schools tend to hire younger and less experienced teachers. And even then, there are many charter schools that pay a lot better than public schools.

Also, over 12% of charter schools in America are unionized as of 2010 (the most recent stats I could find), including all charter schools in Iowa, Hawaii, Maryland, Alaska and Virginia.

[boutons_deux]

younger and less experienced teachers.

aka CHEAPER

for-profit charter schools is what Betsy DeVos, and capitalists, have been and will be pushing for. The objective is profit, not education.

For-profit charter schools with their low-ball teachers are unionized?

[Clipper Nation]

Yes, cheaper, because they aren't as experienced yet. And they're more available, because unions make it hard for new teachers to get their foot in the door and then use LIFO provisions to throw them under the bus at the first opportunity when they do. The bottom line is, the only way for teachers to get experience in teaching is to actually teach. It's absurd to begrudge charter schools for giving them the opportunity to do that.

I'd love to see the libs explain how the Netherlands has one of the best educational systems in the world, tbh. They have had a voucher system in place for a century. Two-thirds of their schools are independent. According to the anti-school-choice crowd, this should be a recipe for failure. Instead, it's ranked 9th in the world by PISA. Funny how that works.

[RandomGuy]

Yes, cheaper, because they aren't as experienced yet. And they're more available, because unions make it hard for new teachers to get their foot in the door and then use LIFO provisions to throw them under the bus at the first opportunity when they do. The bottom line is, the only way for teachers to get experience in teaching is to actually teach. It's absurd to begrudge charter schools for giving them the opportunity to do that.

I'd love to see the libs explain how the Netherlands has one of the best educational systems in the world, tbh. They have had a voucher system in place for a century. Two-thirds of their schools are independent. According to the anti-school-choice crowd, this should be a recipe for failure. Instead, it's ranked 9th in the world by PISA. Funny how that works.

Teachers are paid more than in the US. About 20% more.
https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...ound-the-world

In the Netherlands, educators decide what happens in their classrooms—not bureaucrats.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education...-voice/384538/

That last bit is something my wife (high school science) can readily attest to.


https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...ound-the-world


This lib would explain it this way:

You are sadly cherry picking data (looks only at the voucher issue, and doesn't hint that anything else might be working)and horribly oversimplifying a complex problem. Your post therefore demonstrates a decided lack of critical thinking, and intellectual honesty, and is emblematic of a failure of the educational system to teach you those skills.

[pgardn]

US students do not perform worse in Science and Math, that's a crock. When you take students in Ap classes and compare them to college bound students in other countries they perform just as well if not better. The students that have taken their HS science courses in other countries have ALREADY been culled, they are already top students because if you are not a top student, you don't take the comparison tests.

How many times does this need to be said. We try to educate ALL students until 15 or 16 yo, other countries don't. The US is THE WORLD LEADER in almost all science. You wanna ruin this, cut public education. Especially in wealthier areas that have the best public education in the world. Where are all the best innovations in Technology and Science?

In the Us.

Is good science and math education availabe to all students in the US, No.

[pgardn]

Why Trump's Education Pick Scares Unions

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-trum...ons-1480464943

As an aside, my youngest has to take the End-of-Course Algebra 1 and Geometry tests (EOC Algebra 1 is a graduation requirement) and I took the online Alg 1 practice test just for the fun of it. To my surprise, I could only do some of these problems - they were termed/phrased in such a way as to be unrecognizable as Algebra. I don't know if this is a result of Common Core, but it's nothing like traditional algebra. I used a highly regarded Dolciani Algebra text from the 80s (for all 3 kids) - which was the basis for dd who's gone thru Linear Algebra successfully.

Far East Strengthens Grip on Math, Science Rankings, US Students Slip Further Behind

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorr.../#17d1145c3719

Yah, Singapore Math (my favorite curriculum).

Algebra is extraordinary useful in basic physics. Most real world problems that require algebra are written in English, not as math, because this is how algebra is really used. Fundamentals using math and then
presentation with real problems is the real way to go.

Imo opinion calculus should firsts be presented after a student has taken physics, the the fundamentals of calculus are made clear. Finding slopes and areas under curves are fundamental in calculus, and are better understood starting with physics questions. Calculus was invented to solve related rate problems...PHYSICS!

[Clipper Nation]

http://www.theatlantic.com/education...-voice/384538/

That last bit is something my wife (high school science) can readily attest to.

I agree that teachers should have more of a say in the classroom than bureaucrats, but the left shouts down any attempt to solve this problem - whether it's by scrapping Common Core or making it easier for parents to take advantage of alternatives to public schools.

I guess it's more important to leftists that teacher's unions keep all their power and generations of American children keep being taught the doctrine of Big Government in the classroom than it is to actually fix our education system.

[Nbadan]

You are sadly cherry picking data (looks only at the voucher issue, and doesn't hint that anything else might be working)and horribly oversimplifying a complex problem. Your post therefore demonstrates a decided lack of critical thinking, and intellectual honesty, and is emblematic of a failure of the educational system to teach you those skills.

True dat...

[Nbadan]

I agree that teachers should have more of a say in the classroom than bureaucrats, but the left shouts down any attempt to solve this problem - whether it's by scrapping Common Core or making it easier for parents to take advantage of alternatives to public schools.

So.....what exact issues do you have with common core?

[Clipper Nation]

So.....what exact issues do you have with common core?

First of all, very few teachers or administrators were in the room when the Common Core standards were being written. They were put together by a panel of ivory-tower academics and testing company employees that was assembled by a consulting firm. The only real teacher involvement came at the very end when they asked a few K-12 teachers which minor tweaks they should make. Such a process was always woefully unequipped to produce a set of standards that worked adequately for teachers, parents and students.

Common Core has only increased achievement gaps, as seen in states like Illinois, Kentucky and California:

http://hechingerreport.org/common-co...-gap-at-first/

http://hechingerreport.org/five-year...-gap-widening/

https://www.edsurge.com/news/2015-09...hievement-gaps

Common Core's approach to math in particular is a massive joke, to the point where it's significantly hurting high school seniors' math scores:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ms-alec-torres

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/us...iors.html?_r=1

Billions of dollars have been pumped into online standardized tests that don't work and standards that don't help students with learning disabilities, ESL students or finanically disadvantaged students:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/us...iors.html?_r=1

Overall, Common Core is the biggest educational disaster since New Math.

[baseline bum]

Imo opinion calculus should firsts be presented after a student has taken physics, the the fundamentals of calculus are made clear. Finding slopes and areas under curves are fundamental in calculus, and are better understood starting with physics questions. Calculus was invented to solve related rate problems...PHYSICS!

I gotta completely disagree. I don't think mechanics nor especially E&M is at all intelligible without knowing at least a good sampling of calculus. Differential equations are the natural language of classical physics. You can't intelligently talk about classical physics without knowing about differentials, volume elements, instantaneous rates of change, and so on. Physics made no sense to me when I took it in high school but in college after learning some calc everything started to fit together. Physics being so dependent on math is the reason why you have to take mechanics again as an upperclassman, and same with E&M if you're a physics student. Maybe the truly great geniuses like Faraday can grasp physics without knowing calc, but for mere mortals it's just confusing when you're not able to speak the language.

[boutons_deux]

Overall, Common Core is the biggest educational disaster since New Math.

You Lie. Even ing SC easily adopted CC because it was already doing nearly all of it on their own.

CC has higher standards, so students score worse, but are about as stupid or smart as before CC.

CC sets standards only.

[rmt]

US students do not perform worse in Science and Math, that's a crock. When you take students in Ap classes and compare them to college bound students in other countries they perform just as well if not better. The students that have taken their HS science courses in other countries have ALREADY been culled, they are already top students because if you are not a top student, you don't take the comparison tests.

How many times does this need to be said. We try to educate ALL students until 15 or 16 yo, other countries don't. The US is THE WORLD LEADER in almost all science. You wanna ruin this, cut public education. Especially in wealthier areas that have the best public education in the world. Where are all the best innovations in Technology and Science?

In the Us.

Is good science and math education availabe to all students in the US, No.

The above mentioned tests (TIMSS) is a 20 year study involving 4th and 8th graders - not high schoolers taking AP classes. I'm assuming that they pick them at random (as opposed to sending their best and brightest - this isn't Math Olympiad). You can see that the gap between the East Asian kids and the next highest country in 4th grade was 23 in 2015 unchanged from 2011. However, the gap between the East Asian kids and the next highest country in 8th grade is 48 in 2015 increasing from 31 in 2011. My take from this is that the gap between East Asian kids and the rest INCREASES as the grades get higher.

http://timss2015.org/timss-2015/math...t-achievement/

http://timss2015.org/timss-2015/math...t-achievement/ (click on Grade 8)

I think that (on a whole) US kids are okay in the younger grades (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division) but somewhere around 3-5th grades when they're supposed to be learning fractions, decimals, and percentages - things get a bit fuzzy and because there are sometimes gaps or concepts aren't mastered, the kids get more and more confused as the grades get higher. Sorry, but I'd place my bet on the average East Asian kid than an average American every day and twice on Sunday when it comes to math - they know their stuff.

[rmt]

US students do not perform worse in Science and Math, that's a crock. When you take students in Ap classes and compare them to college bound students in other countries they perform just as well if not better. The students that have taken their HS science courses in other countries have ALREADY been culled, they are already top students because if you are not a top student, you don't take the comparison tests.

How many times does this need to be said. We try to educate ALL students until 15 or 16 yo, other countries don't. The US is THE WORLD LEADER in almost all science. You wanna ruin this, cut public education. Especially in wealthier areas that have the best public education in the world. Where are all the best innovations in Technology and Science?

In the Us.

Is good science and math education availabe to all students in the US, No.

pgardn, please take a look at TIMSS Advanced 2015:

http://timss2015.org/advanced/

and Physics:

http://timss2015.org/advanced/timss-...t-achievement/

How do you explain these? Do you think that it's possible that a lot of foreign students are coming to the US (because this is where the money and research is) and spearheading that world leadership in science. As an aside, my dd's fellow Google intern was Indian as was most of the team. And this was not your normal programming team - it was a Research team full of Phds. Dd was heartily tired of eating at the cafe that served Indian food and trying to make small talk about cricket, etc :-)

[pgardn]

The above mentioned tests (TIMSS) is a 20 year study involving 4th and 8th graders - not high schoolers taking AP classes. I'm assuming that they pick them at random (as opposed to sending their best and brightest - this isn't Math Olympiad). You can see that the gap between the East Asian kids and the next highest country in 4th grade was 23 in 2015 unchanged from 2011. However, the gap between the East Asian kids and the next highest country in 8th grade is 48 in 2015 increasing from 31 in 2011. My take from this is that the gap between East Asian kids and the rest INCREASES as the grades get higher.

http://timss2015.org/timss-2015/math...t-achievement/

http://timss2015.org/timss-2015/math...t-achievement/ (click on Grade 8)

I think that (on a whole) US kids are okay in the younger grades (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division) but somewhere around 3-5th grades when they're supposed to be learning fractions, decimals, and percentages - things get a bit fuzzy and because there are sometimes gaps or concepts aren't mastered, the kids get more and more confused as the grades get higher. Sorry, but I'd place my bet on the average East Asian kid than an average American every day and twice on Sunday when it comes to math - they know their stuff.

The average East Asian kid is not doing math. They are working. That's a joke. The average East Asian kid in school maybe. The point is the US attempts to educate ALL kids. But it is obviously a very uneven field.

[Wild Cobra]

The point is the US attempts to educate ALL kids. But it is obviously a very uneven field.

Then why all the social indoctrination if they are trying to educate?

[pgardn]

Then why all the social indoctrination if they are trying to educate?

What?

[pgardn]

I gotta completely disagree. I don't think mechanics nor especially E&M is at all intelligible without knowing at least a good sampling of calculus. Differential equations are the natural language of classical physics. You can't intelligently talk about classical physics without knowing about differentials, volume elements, instantaneous rates of change, and so on. Physics made no sense to me when I took it in high school but in college after learning some calc everything started to fit together. Physics being so dependent on math is the reason why you have to take mechanics again as an upperclassman, and same with E&M if you're a physics student. Maybe the truly great geniuses like Faraday can grasp physics without knowing calc, but for mere mortals it's just confusing when you're not able to speak the language.

I feel exactly the opposite, especially with mechanics, but possibly not with E&M.

I have tutored some kids of older guys I work with, and when I have shown them how the foundations of physics can be explained so much better using calculus, they start to better understand the airy-fairy calculus that has little to no utility, except for good thought problems. Slopes and areas that have actual PHYSICAL MEANING has been very useful, so I use physics as a starting point when I have been asked to help out. Then they can go wander off into math world after they get an understanding of what they are doing. In fact, I got in trouble with one of the student's teachers when they just starting to learn calculus because I showed him the power rule, and he was supposed to go through the longer method before deferring to the much easier power rule shortcut. I showed him the long way, but he used the power rule to make sure he was correct.

Interestingly though, a lot of the modern physics that is difficult is pursued because the math says this is how it should be given these certain constraints. Experimental physics types then go looking for an experimental set up to try and determine if what the math says should exist really does exist.

[pgardn]

pgardn, please take a look at TIMSS Advanced 2015:

http://timss2015.org/advanced/

and Physics:

http://timss2015.org/advanced/timss-...t-achievement/

How do you explain these? Do you think that it's possible that a lot of foreign students are coming to the US (because this is where the money and research is) and spearheading that world leadership in science. As an aside, my dd's fellow Google intern was Indian as was most of the team. And this was not your normal programming team - it was a Research team full of Phds. Dd was heartily tired of eating at the cafe that served Indian food and trying to make small talk about cricket, etc :-)

Same as post # 20.

You are looking at cherry picking. Most Indians know the only way out is to get educated. I work with these people. We need the best and the brightest to become American citizens.

[rmt]

In places like Hong Kong, Shanghai, South Korea, and Vietnam, fewer than 5 percent of 15-year-old students performed below the basic-proficiency level in reading, mathematics and science. But, in the United States, 12 percent—half a million students—fell below the same level in all three subjects. The performance of the average student in the U.S. falls below the OECD average for all 64 countries in its survey, and far below the average for the major industrial countries. The proportion of our students who score below the OECD basic score is also well above the average for the major industrial countries. Equally troubling, the proportion of our students who score in the upper ranges of the OECD spectrum is also well below the average.

Some argue that the U.S.’s lagging behind has nothing to do with our schools: The U.S. has a much higher proportion of disadvantaged poor and minority students than higher-performing countries. But the data show that 37 countries outperform the U.S. in the degree to which socioeconomic status predicts low achievement. Both Vietnam and Latvia have far smaller percentages of low-performing students than the U.S. If it is poverty that accounts for the U.S.’s high proportion of low-performing students, it is hard to explain how these two countries are doing better than the United States. Vietnam’s average income, adjusted for purchasing power, stands at just one-tenth of the U.S. average, Latvia’s at less than one half.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education...rences/471564/