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Deserves a whine for all those of us who watched it. thanks for the review timvp appreciated.
The Spurs got beat down so thoroughly by the Timberwolves on Wednesday night that assigning grades to the futility is pointless. The game was basically over midway through the second quarter. The blowout was even worse than the 128-89 final score indicates.
Some quick thoughts about the game:
The starters were bad to start the game and quickly fell into a 14-7 hole. Patty Mills came off the bench and almost single-handedly energized the team by pushing the pace, making slick passes and knocking down a couple difficult shots. At the end of the first quarter, the Spurs trailed only by three points, 28-25.
Then the wheels fell off.
DeMar DeRozan had four turnovers in the first quarter. Robert Covington is regarded as a top-flight defender and he showed why tonight with his defense on DeRozan. LaMarcus Aldridge missed some shots early, which seemed to impact his overall game. As the game progressed, he stopped battling for rebounds or defending the rim.
In garbage time, Jakob Poeltl continued his recent solid play; his per-minute production has been fantastic recently. Quincy Pondexter played really hard and exhibited more bounce in step than we’ve seen out of him so far this season.
Everyone else was bad. If you’re scoring at home, it’d be safe to pencil them all in with Ds or Fs.
Instead of reliving more of this contest’s dark minutiae, I’ll offer up some random thoughts one-quarter of the way into the 2018-19 season:
-Everything from the eye-test to advanced metrics say that Dante Cunningham shouldn’t be in the starting lineup. He really hurts the offense and isn’t an above average defender. He hustles, he rebounds a little bit and he’s more mobile than most power forwards. That’s the extent of his value.
-It should also be clarified that Cunningham can’t defend small forwards at all. There have been comparisons to Bruce Bowen and even Keith Bogans but those were three-and-D small forwards (Bogans was a disappointment but that was because he was Bowen on offense without being Bowen on defense). Cunningham is a mobile power forward who has no chance of staying in front of run of the mill small forwards (truth is most mobile power forwards can blow by him). Cunningham can only matchup against small forwards that don’t shoot well or those who you’d rather have shoot than drive (LeBron James and Greek Freak, for example).
-Speaking of three-and-D players, a lot has been made of the Spurs not having any such players on this year’s roster. However, that was by design. Last year, Dejounte Murray proved to be a one-man wrecking ball on the defensive end. When he was on the court, the Spurs were elite on defense regardless of who was around him. The issues with Murray are all on the offensive end . . . so the Spurs let go of their one-dimensional defensive players (Danny Green and Kyle Anderson, most notably) in an effort to put more well-rounded weapons around Murray. It was a gamble the Spurs took with the thought being that Murray would develop into a defensive juggernaut. When he was lost for the season with a torn ACL, that unfortunately scrambled the equation – and it was too late to change course.
-Going back to Cunningham, Pop actually made the move to take him out of the starting lineup tonight in Minnesota. He did so by replacing Cunningham with Derrick White. Obviously, how the game played out will have Pop rethinking whether or not Cunningham is the problem. (And, no, the lineup switch wasn’t a matchup issue. The Timberwolves started a big frontline in Karl-Anthony Towns, Taj Gibson and Covington, so Pop didn’t start the smaller lineup for defensive purposes.)
-I don’t know if White is the answer as a starter. Let’s ignore the fact that his play and production this season has been poor – the bigger issue is DeRozan is most useful when he’s handling the ball a ton. He’s useless off the ball because he’s not a three-point shooter; he even hesitates to shoot wide open corner threes. Starting Bryn Forbes as the point-guard-in-name-only but letting DeRozan run the show appears to be the way to go. The Spurs stumbled into that particularly alignment but it looks to be the best bet going forward.
-Speaking of White, Pop is coaching him as if he thinks White is a legit star (or at least a legit starter) in the making. When Murray went down, Pop didn’t hesitate to make White the starter. When White returned from injury, he immediately put him in the starting lineup. And even though all metrics point to White having a bad season thus far, Pop keeps trying to push the issue with him. Some Spurs fans say that Pop has been unfair with regard to White but I couldn’t disagree more. He’s giving him a long leash and showing a lot of confidence in a player who has a single digit PER and a net rating in the toilet.
-So, who should the fifth starter be next to Forbes, DeRozan, Rudy Gay and Aldridge. Cunningham isn’t the answer. I’d like it to be White since he has untapped upside but I don’t think it’s him, either. Even though Poeltl has played a lot better lately, I don’t think it can be him because Aldridge would struggle too much against modern day power forwards on defense. If someone isn’t brought in from the outside, I think Davis Bertans has to be given a shot. There’s really no other logical possibility.
-Yes, Bertans might be the worst rebounding forward in recorded human history. Yes, his defense usually amounts to him putting his arms straight up as he hurriedly backpedals while the opponent plows through him for a shot at the rim. But offensively, his ability to spread the floor meshes perfectly with the rest of the starting lineup. He’s the best floor spacer on the team and if there’s one thing the starting lineup needs, it’s improved spacing. And while he and his shoulderless frame will never be a plus on the defensive end, he’s usually mindful of his responsibilities on that end. His feet are also quick enough to stay in front of smaller players, which is useful when Gay is especially dragging and needs to stick to defending power forwards.
-A bench unit built around Mills, Poeltl and Marco Belinelli should be at least league average. Mills has played really well since a pathetic first four or five games of the season. Poeltl is improving by leaps and bounds lately. Belinelli literally can’t play much worse and is beyond due for a hot stretch of games. If White joins that threesome and is half as good as Pop apparently thinks he is, then the bench will be totally fine. Figuring out the starting lineup is the pressing need; the bench looks strong going forward.
-Big picture-wise, this latest four-game road trip was a win. Sure, Wednesday night was ugly but the Spurs went 2-2 on the road trip, which was the realistic goal heading into the trip. They also played better than expected in their loss in Milwaukee.
-Now the Spurs head into a stretch where they play eight of their next ten games at home. Through the uncharacteristic chaos in Spurs land, the good guys stand a game out of the playoffs. After this ten-game stretch, we’ll know a lot more about where the team stands. If they can win seven of the games, they will be feeling a lot better about themselves. If they win five-sh games, things will stay in the current limbo state. If they win less than that, it’d probably be time to shake up the roster.
-Welcome to real NBA fandom, Spurs fans. After thirty years in the sun, it's a bit disorienting to be dealing with existential-level question marks but I believe there might be a little bit of tread left on the wheels. We'll see.
yeah it's so obvious that Bertans needs to be in the SL. and on defense, opposing players go at him the same way all the time, it's predictable, a little help D could go a long way.
Can't believe PATFO paid him 7 mil only to use him like this
You keep giving Forbes a pass when his shot selection is horrible and even when he makes shots, his defense is the worst on the floor. Him as a starter is not justified.
I can't believe PATFO paid him 7 Million. It's like the Mills deal - giving starter money to a guy who's a specialist, not a real starter level player...
Legendary write up
Spurs fans are so incredibly spoiled.
Spurs build team basically around Murray. Murray goes down for the year. What the did fans expect would happen?
This team has both Walker and Murray on it....
This team is tons more fun to watch and much more successful.
It is what it is.
Doesn't mean we should be happy for being 10-11. No sense in that whatsoever.
This isn't only about Murray tbh. Last season they lost an MVP level player in Kawhi and were able to play better than was expected bc of the quality support players they had. Murray is good but he's not Kawhi. He's not going to carry this team the way people expect and I expected him to be MIP candidate.
Thanks, timvp, for taking the trouble. Good comments, as always.
One thing I've been noticing more about Bertans is his passing. He will sling a baseball type pass with good speed and accuracy, and he's fearless with it. He's also gotten braver and bolder in general the more he's played. I agree, start him (and cross our fingers he doesn't get crunched.)
Thanks LJ. Feels good to read up your articles when all is so bad with the Spurs ..it's frustrating to finally see the Spurs play like non contenders after years but I guess it's a plus that future ain't so bleak.
Forbes' shot selection is generally quite good. He gets a ton of open looks, and he should be shooting a much higher percentage than he is. If he were hitting his open shots like Pop expects from his "Curry", he would be a candidate for the league's MIP. But he only hits the good looks he gets at a fair clip, and that ain't nearly good enough to compensate for his no-D. I've been hoping he was going to become an elite 3-point shooter, and I will root for him as long as he is with the team, but we need an upgrade - as we do across the board.
He shouldn't be taking almost as many shots as DeRozan, Aldridge or Gay. I disagree that he's taking good shots, especially during crunch time.
I mean what exactly did you expect realistically?
Thanks for the review Timvp. While most of the time it’s defense (Spurs normally scores but can’t stop the opposing team from scoring and relinquishing the lead), tonight it’s both. It starts with the leader or lack thereof. LMA should put it on his shoulder every night. That’s why we brought him here originally (before Kawhi dramatic offensive improvement) to be heir apparent to Timmy. LMA is not. He’s too moody(?), complacent, not enough hunger. If the leader is like that, the rest will follow. There is no sense of urgency, of pride. Moreover, as good an offensive player Demar is, he sucks at defense (except for the block). There is no communication, albeit they haven’t played together long enough. Then we have Forbes getting burnt every time on defense, Belli chucking ill-advised shots. White cannot play alongside Demar. He takes the ball away from Demar who netplenty of touches to score. Cunningham is not a threat, and the list goes on. The only good about this is, they got a whack on the chin and should be extra motivated going home against Rockets. I can’t wait.
I mean factor in the Gasol injury who was actually playing decently off the bench providing some glue and its no wonder this team is god awful more or less.
I forgot about him.
Nobody said Murray would 'carry' this team. But Murray would be the glue that brings it all together. The spark he provided to this team is largely why they over achieved last year, even with his shot being basically non existent last year.
This team would somewhere between 3-5 in the playoffs with everyone healthy.
A couple breaks go right they could make the WCF. As it is, as with most teams, when you lose one of your most significant pieces nad then add in two important role players and you are going to struggle.
Spurs fans = spoiled.
You just hate the guy. If you look at the tape, he gets a ton of WIDE open looks - probably more than any other player on the team. He just clanks too many great looks. But I still don't mind his taking more shots than LMA, who is worthless most games. DeMar and Rudy can't take every shot. The team has to get points somewhere else. Where? Marco, Davis and Patty? They haven't exactly set the woods on fire, either. And their D may actually be worse than Bryn's. That's the state of the team...
It takes Pop a season to figure it out with this much roster change/injuries. I won't bet on him figuring it out this season.
Brainstormimg.
Since Patty is doing better, go with it. Start him at the 1. Try beginning games at a faster pace, with him. , could it hurt at this point? I don't see how.
Starting lineup:
1 Mills
2 DDR
3 Bertans
4 Gay
5 Aldridge
We're not going to find perfection within this roster, but that might at least be worth a look.
The bench, then:
1 White
2 Forbes
3 & 4 Pondexter, Cunninghan, Belinelli, whoever's wearing a Spurs uniform.
5 Poeltl
Another idea to kick around.
This team has 3 real starters. The rest is pure garbage.
Been saying this for awhile, among others. The idea that we need more spacing isn't new. Might as well get better at what we are this year. The no defense San Antonio Suns (with far less talent).
What sucks about this is Pau made this unit much better as well. Too bad he's the latest Spur down for the count due to injury.
Funny, Sean Elliott also during the broadcast was like "it ain't 1999 anymore".
Also, not sure why Lonnie Sky Walker isn't being thrown into the fire, or perhaps he will be soon. This team desperately needs a spark, and that spark isn't more Patty Mills.
I didn't expect a washed up Cunningham to be a starter or a g leaguer Forbes to be starting when we have better options off the bench.
We lost Tony and Manu. That was the heart of the Spurs TBH. This year it's random castoffs, non NBA level players and Aldridge. And a washed up Pop.
For example, one friend sent me the article today how the traded Alec Burks and 2 2nd rounders for Kyle Korver, and said the Spurs could have used him. I responded of course we could use him, but Alec Burks is way better than anything we could offer, and 2 2nd rounders + him is kind of overpaying for just one shooter.
Thanks for the grades. -- spurstalk
On a serious note, WTF Spurs?
Looks like a picked a good night to watch PBS.
Fans are not spoiled by expecting their team to at least be able to compete..............Just saying.
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