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SMH
The Kawhi drama is piercing the veil here, dissipating the homey images of TD and TP and Bruce playing board games and eating pizza. I have always admired the Spurs because we get everything we can from our guys--they play hard, they shoot and defend better than they do on other teams (quantifiably), and they sacrifice minutes for the good of the team. As a result, despite rarely being outrageously loaded, in terms of talent, we've always had great results. For players who want to win and actually contribute effectively, these are great things.
The Spurs have always been forward thinking, picking up good players from abroad and off the scrap heat; resting players to avoid injuries and preserve their effectiveness; always thinking long-term. As fans, we celebrate this intelligence and discipline.
But: Plainly, the big market teams give players more opportunities for endorsements. And in the NBA, you make $ depending on how many points you score, which is contingent on jacking up about as many shots as you can get away with. Guys who choose their spots, maybe even come off the bench, are taking a big hit to their career earnings by playing that way (that is, by playing the right way tbh). Sitting out games and limiting minutes is great for the team, but not for getting big paydays. It's easier on the body and mind to slack off on D a bit and use that for getting your shot off, too. Finally, no offense, SA does not have as many entertaining ways to spend your money as the big cities (I live in Phoenix now, which is a step up in that regards, but definitely not LA).
Some of these factors are related to how Pop uses his players. Looking at this way, it's a miracle Pop has gotten this level of cooperation from the most sought-after athletes in the world. It feels like, maybe, it's over, though. Guys aren't going to take one for the team anymore. If KL, who seemed a clone made expressly to fit within these Spursian parameters, can force his way out because he wants more $, doesn't that mean the jig is up? Why will anyone buy into this culture anymore now?
SMH
Some players might not like it here but not for KL. He probably benefitted.
JSimms basically left bc he wanted more playing time opportunities and freedom to be a higher usage player, etc.
They have extended careers at higher levels. And because there is a system based on team first, even players like Neal and Forbes and the like can prosper here. And every now and again, a player like that will even get his Jersey retired here...Bowen, Johnson.
So pretty much on every point you made regarding SA being bad for players, you're just demonstrably wrong.
As far as SA itself, it's not LA or NY or even Dallas or Houston. That said, it has amongst the best weather in the League. It has golf nearly year around. It has plenty of good restaurants and clubs. It's got lots of entertainment options for the player's families. It might not be ideal for a young player that's not really basketball centered/basketball first, but then again, Pop doesn't draft those players. They draft TP, Manu, Timmy, Derek White, DJ, and Jared Blossingame types. And Kawhi, who until his uncle and agency filled his head with dreams of far off fields of gold, was that kind of player. And if the players really have a couple days off, it's no big deal to come up 80 miles to Austin where the clubbing is nearly as good as it gets.
I get so fed up with this lazy, pedestrian view of SA and the Spurs. It's simplistic bull .
Pop and company had a successful run of keeping great players under the radar. Kawhi slipped out. I think that's due in large part to the fact that Kawhi had a meteoric rise in the charts and gained world attention, and after his injury got advice from a lot of people, likely people not even in his circle, who told him that the Spurs are lining their pockets with the sacrifices of players' salaries. Kawhi saw how IT was treated after his injury, how his stock plummeted, how a franchise that cried for him during the playoffs, kicked him to the curb when the lights were off. Kawhi could have signed a supermax but perhaps knew that, if he did, the history of the organization is to not bring in high level talent to help, but rely instead on finding diamonds in the rough. The league is not a diamonds in the rough friendly league now and won't be for quite some time because the game is too fast for player development to happen in the 1st contract term, and coaches are more like cheerleaders now so players are left on their own to develop (or they learn from other players).
So it's not that the Spurs are bad for players. It's that any player who has the trajectory of Kawhi Leonard should seriously consider whether or not they want to spend that star capital on situational improvement rather than an eventual sacrifice to be in the same city with a "knocking on the door" hope of getting past either Western powerhouse.
Yah, nothing is more appealing to a young NBA player than golf.
Okay, so a decade ago, we had star players who liked it here enough to stay, but now we don't, so my take is simplistic. I understand being sick of the ESPN view, but explain how it's going to work going forward. Do you have some evidence Pop's resting method made more $ for the top players? Was Kobe going to make more money if he was here and didn't get to chuck it as much?
50 and TD are gone, and Kawhi most likely is too--and I didn't even like the way Kawhi's isoball game was going, anyway. And let's drop off the stuff about SA's weather unless there's some evidence that matters.
Are you saying that the stacked West has changed the equation so a Kawhi doesn't see the point of staying in SA, even with the Supermax, because there's more money to be had in LA regardless of the chance of winning a championship?
Endorsement money is limited for players in small markets like SA. That will always be a disadvantage. Team Uncle will eventually find out that endorsement money is also limited for players with the personality of a tree stump.
Ill put this thread to sleep already..
Young sexually active Boy entering the NBA, then becoming a rich young sexually active boy,
does not have San Antonio on his places to live list. The End.
You come to san antonio to win and play basketball ...95% of the time
NO
I really dislike the whole "small market" argument. Whatever.. just googling "small market" list lets me know that SA is #31 in the US (also the 7th most populated city... not metro and all that just SA by itself). Being that everyone says NFL is king, I find it interesting that there are 8 cities that rank higher than SA on the media market list yet have NFL teams. Also, everyone makes it seem like the big market teams always win les in the modern day and attract the best players. LA has been only at best as good as SA somehow, NY still sux, Chicago only needed the GOAT player and coach... etc, etc. So... i think that's a bunch of BS and simply a mindset of today's zombie youth. For the record, I grew up in SA but don't live there anymore. I don't think SA compares any where near the top cities in the US for living or just enjoying. Just not sophisticated enough and everything is always too crowded. Nothing in SA really blows you away. And the weather? It's freaking hot and humid to go along with the crowdedness. Still it's my City at heart and i want more pro teams here. I still think a team can be constructed based off of defensive principles, great coaching, great role players along with at least one superstar, a star and athletes. Remember, every one says you have to be like GS cuz they've changed the game. Not true really, they just happen to be a perfect storm.. multiple superior ALL NBA players who are team players and what to win more than they want personal stats. NOBODY else comes close. People make it seem like training to shoot like Curry is all that it is. Do you think if Curry gets sent to the Knicks they immediately win the le? No way, its still about the team. Only way to beat these guys is to either wait them out, injury or maybe a team like we had a few years back. i think the 04/05 Pistons could have beat them. No city is really bad for players, it's all about the individual mentality. OR prove that bigger markets dominate winning les in the modern era (90's to today)! By top markets i mean LA, NY, Chi, Philly, Dallas, SF, Wash, Houston, Boston, ATL. Has to be an great split to really mean much.
Edit: Top markets i listed won, since 90, : NBA 64%, NFL 54%, MLB 54% and if you want to count NHL 32%.
Top markets i listed won, since 95, : NBA 61%, NFL 43%, MLB 70% and if you want to count NHL 35%.
So should the league go to 10 teams only? Still i think where players go is a mindset only.
Yes. The three star players that were drafted into and played in his player management system all played a minimum of 17 years. NBA avg is 4.8 years.
That means more contracts, sometimes albeit at reduced prices. But more contracts (longer careers) = more money.
In so far as the weather mattering, just listen to Sean Elliott. He says it's a positive that you can go out and golf, or really do outdoor activities of any kind, most days of the year here. Miami, Orlando, NO, Houston, Phoenix, LA and maybe a couple others could make that claim. Most cities reduce the players to hotels or gyms rather than enjoying their days off. Again, that might not be the most important thing to some of the guys, and they'd rather have the NY nightlife. But that is not the type of player the Spurs typically draft.
Tell that to Lebron. If you are marketable, you are marketable.
One of the least stump-like players out there, but he has ping-ponged between small and large markets. I'm willing to guess he made more in endorsements after the move to Miami.
OP conveniently leaves out the fact that many of these players - Simmons included - wouldn’t be in the league without the Spurs. Is it a place for the Dion Waiters of the world? No. Or guys looking for scoring les? No.
Otherwise it doesn’t get much better.
Westbrook is a prime example of the fact that it doesn’t matter. Heck, in another sport but Aaron Rodgers plays for the smallest city in the country with a pro sports franchise.
I appreciate the data, but comparing stars' careers to average players is apples to oranges. Stars have longer careers by definition, and a quick google shows only Tim Duncan among Spurs players with the most seasons in the league (Kobe, Shaq, and Kareem are on the list, incidentally). You can just as easily say that Shaq and Kobe's average of 19.5 years shows that their system is better and the rest doesn't mean anything. And of course they made a boatload more money, and were (are) mega-celebrities as well. Bottom line, the small possible effects of resting the players doesn't outweigh the stats and the other greater opportunity to make $ in the big markets.
And I'm glad Sean and David like it in SA--that's very cool--but it's a small minority of players who specifically want that lifestyle. I hear they have awesome mountain biking in Utah, too!
The Spurs system has been great for certain role players, and they've been essential to the Spurs. People like Bowen or Green really thrived here and made giant contributions. But if you think role players are #1, #2, or #3 on the list of winning championships, we'll have to agree to disagree.
The NFL is too different to the NBA to compare. Basically the handful of elite QBs have the effect of LeBron on his team, and the fanbase has totally different demographics.
In any case, these few exceptions really seem like whistling by the grave when 90% of the stars are going to the superteams right now.
The NBA has a real problem. I agree with some of the OP. If you're a young player who wants to take a lot of shots, high ppg, chasing fame and money, San Antonio is not where you want to be.
Remember Lebron was the "king" making tons of money in Cleveland before he ever went to Miami. If you really are that type of player you can be a superstar in a small market. But Kawhi never speaks and has no personality. That us a bigger problem than being in a small market.
The team is not good for egotistical stat hording type players.
We all know pop will limit players minutes and cares not for individual accolades, that may result in some players not wanting to play here.
The stars will get paid but they may not have the stats they could get on another team. But the spurs will do their best to surround the stars with not only complementary pieces that play team ball but good character guys that will likely be good teammates. Which does matter as we've seen.
But not everyone is meant to be a spur.
Lamarcus for example cares about his recognition, accolades and touches.
NBA is over, it doesn't matter
No, he left because the Spurs didn't want to s out not even that much money for him. This is well known.
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