A few podcasts I listen to have ranked the entirety of the NBA playerbase and its been an interesting time listening to see where they rank certain players. I think it'll be interesting if we do that with the Spurs.
Tier 1
1. Dejounte Murray.
I mean I can't imagine anyone putting anyone else in this spot for obvious reasons. Dude made his first all star game and really stepped up his game. His finishing especially took a nice tick upwards this year although his shooting seemed to improve as well. The real question going forward is how much he can still improve as he's already in his mid twenties approaching his late twenties when most players peak. That being said, we have seen players who blossom later into their careers and continue to improve. For instance, Kyle Lowery. I'm hoping that despite his age, Murray is able to really improve on his shooting this offseason. If he was able to up his 3 point percentage while also upping his 3 point volume, then I think we can see DJM hit an even higher level. Obviously no one else meets this tier.
Tier 2
2. Keldon Johnson
Prior to an up and down game in the play in, Keldon had really hit his stride and was playing extremely well. Over the last 2 months of the season, Keldon's shooting percentage from deep took a hit, but he was taking many more 3s and still shooting a respectable percentage. Additionally, his drives to the basket and passing off his drives improved substantially as the year went on. If Keldon can consistently provide 20 ppg as the 2nd option I will be extremely happy with his production. The big question, aside from improvement, is how should Keldon approach the offseason regarding losing weight. While Keldon's physicality is almost required on the Spurs, count me among those who feel he would be better served by being a bit smaller and focusing on playing as a 3. One of the Spurs biggest weaknesses this year was on the glass, and this is in large part because they are playing Keldon at 4. He's extremely physical but he's not really able to convey that to playing the glass the way a good undersized 4 is able to. If you look back at a player like Dejuan Blair, he grabbed over 10 boards per 36 during his time in the NBA. Keldon grabs about 7. This is great for a small forward, but isn't going to cut it as a 4. Especially playing next to someone like McDermott.
Tier 3
3. Jakob Poeltl
I think putting Jakob in this tier undersells a bit what his value to the team is, but I also don't think he really has all star potential going forward. Jakob was a great center this year and improved his offense substantially from his previous years. Its hard to overstate how good he is relative to his contract, but his contract is also going to be up soon. My only complaints are his reluctance to finish strong and he still finds himself in foul trouble at times. Although Jakob displays great touch from short range, there are times that he would be better served by remembering he's 7 feet tall and just going up with power and slamming the ball home. Jakob did manage to improve his free throw shooting as the year went on which was also a welcome sight. I don't know how much more we can expect Jakob to improve, but he should anchor the Spurs defense and provide a good offensive option going into next year.
4. Devin Vassell
Devin showed a lot of improvement this year from his rookie campaign and surprised me with some sneaky athleticism on the offensive side that wasn't apparent in year 1. The guy can shoot at a good clip, can penetrate and create shots for himself and is pretty good at playing help defense and producing steals and blocks. I am not thrilled about how much he relies on long pull up jumpers in order to score (this is something a lot of players on this team do and I wish they would do this way less) but I'm interested to see how much he improves going foward.
5. Josh Richardson
Well well well! Came in as almost an afterthought in the Derrick White trade but turned out to be a better fit into the offense than Derrick was by providing good shooting. I was also taken by how quickly he fit in on the team in terms of personality. I'm not sure Richardson is here to stay in the long term as the Spurs roster will be very fluid going into the draft and free agency, but if the Spurs do decide to hold on to the vet, he'll likely be a very valuable piece next season.
Tier 4
6. Josh Primo.
Primo's place here is almost 100% based on future potential. Although from an impact standpoint, there was very little if anything to support Primo being a starter or playing the minutes he did down the stretch, it was always obvious the Spurs were playing him just to give him experience and hope that he learned by doing. Although Primo never really affected games this year, you have to view him through the prism of him being a 19 year old who will be younger than many people taken in upcoming draft. Primo did show some useful skills and the ability to play NBA level defense, so while we're mostly in a wait and see mode with him, there are reasons to be excited.
7. Zach Collins
Collins steadily improved throughout his time on the floor towards the end of the season. The big deal with Collins is just that he's managed to play and stay healthy through half of the season. The big problem with Collins is that I wish he weighed more in order to have more of a presence below the basket. That being said, he has good range and a decent shot and his defense really started to improve as the season progressed. While I don't know if he has potential to ever be a starting caliber center, he does look like he might be a pretty good bench big going forward.
10. Lonnie Walker
Lonnie had a few stretches this year where he seemed to finally be putting things together, and each time, injuries derailed his progress. Its uncertain whether or not Lonnie will be on the team going forward, but I believe the progress he made this year should be enough for him to get another contract with the Spurs. Instant offense is valuable off the bench, especially on a team that doesn't have much offense to begin with.
9. Tre Jones
Tre needs to develop a passable shot. While he does a lot of things well, and shows a good ability to finish in the lane, I don't think there's going to be much of a future for a PG in the NBA who shoots the way he does and doesn't do other things an an incredibly high level. I'd like to see the Spurs bring in a true backup PG next year and let Tre battle it out in camp for minutes.
10. Doug McDermott
I felt that Doug was mostly fine doing the job he came into do this year. Its unfortunate he got hurt when he did, because I feel he was just starting to gel with the rest of the starters in a post trade deadline team, and that just fell apart with his injury. That being said, I'm not sure how much of a future Doug has with this team. While he's still under contract for a couple of years, the Spurs should 100% seek to fill his position in the starting lineup with someone else. Doug fails to rebound at anywhere near an acceptable rate and that alone makes him more suited to a role off the bench. He's not on an awful contract, so the Spurs should not be in a hurry to dump his salary.
Tier 5
Jock Landale
Keta Bates Diop
Joe Wieskamp
Romeo Langford
Devontae Ca
With the Spurs having 4 draft picks and a fair amount of cap space, I'm not sure how many of the players in this tier have a future with the Spurs. Out of the group, KBD and Landale are the only 2 I think have a future in the NBA. If the Spurs want to keep them as end of the bench players, I think that is fine, but if anyone here is in the rotation next year then that is likely a horrible sign.
Pretty solid look at things. I put this in another thread, but Poeltl's numbers look pretty solid, until you look at the breakdown on his rebounding. 9.3 per game is okay, but he's only getting 5.5 defensive boards. That's just unacceptable for a 7' starting C. Even if I do want to commend the 3.9 offensive boards (rounding issue, don't blame me), that 5.5 DRB is a pretty gaping wound. Part of it, I'm sure is from having a 6'5" guy at the 4. But his defensive rebounding has to improve.
Part of the reason Jakob's DREB are so low is because he's always out of position due to his help defense. He has to help on almost every bit of penetration, which he does exceptionally well, it definitely takes him out of rebounding position quite a bit.
always thought richardson was a solid player, but he played much better for us than i could have expected. seems like a really good team guy. still 28 years old. complication is that he's going into the last year of his deal. if the spurs find themselves in a similar spot next year where they are basically scrapping for the play-in spots, would probably be most prudent to trade him to a contender. if he plays as well next year as he did the second half of this year, he'd net at least a first the way Thad did this year. if the spurs are actually a middling playoff team, i'd just keep him and potentially re-sign him
he’s also probably locked in boxing out/ blocking out other behemoths to allow his teammates to grab a board. A better stat to look at is probably how the team rebounds in general with him on the floor. I haven’t looked at it but it will probably paint a more complete picture
Good idea for a thread.
I don't think I want to put numbers on the tiers, because I think there are NBA tiers that aren't represented on the roster. So I'll do it this way:
Above-average starters/low-level star:
Murray, Poeltl
Solid rotation player:
Josh Richardson
Rotation player with room to grow:
Johnson, Vassell
Rotation player with likely role-player ceiling:
Jones, McDermott, KBD
Flawed but not hopeless prospect:
Walker, Collins, Langford, Woodard
Too early to tell:
Primo, Wieskamp
Meh:
Ca , Landale, Stewart
I like chinook’s classification. There are probably two tiers of players above where our best start. That’s worrisome.
I have three (MVP candidates, superstars and solid All-Stars), which is worrisome. The best player the team can reasonably think to acquire are at best in that third tier but might be in Murray's tier. That's why they're nowhere near ready to make an all-in trade at this time.
Just for fun, the 2014 Spurs with the same categories:
All-Star: Parker, Duncan
Lower Star/Above-average rotation player: Ginobili, Leonard
Solid Rotation Player: Green, Diaw, Splitter
Rotation player with room to grow: Mills
Rotation player with role-player ceiling: Belinelli, Bonner
Flawed by not hopeless prospect: Daye, Joseph, Baynes,
Meh: Ayres, James
That's a much better distribution.
Another way to look at this is, if you attach the RAP pick with anyone of these players, how much of a jump do you get in draft pick?
Almost nothing. Jak or JRich plus the Raps or Celts pick gets you ~5 spots at most and you probably take back an unwanted contract.
Keldon, Murray, Vassell are near untouchable as you won’t get equal value. Walker can’t be traded draft day. Primo and Langford have no value. McDermott and a first might get you a future first.
I don't have Keldon as anything close to untouchable. We have no idea what teams are willing to pay for him, but I think there's a reasonable price to be found. Vassell probalby shouldn't be traded unless someone considers him a blue-chip prospect. Murray is probably the easiest player to trade in that he has a moveable contract and obvious ability while still being youngish. If a team like New York is willing to put it all on the table for DeJounte, I could see it being enough. I don't think the Spurs have to trade him or anything, but I don't see anyone being too important to deal.
Untouchable was probably the wrong choice of words. I just don’t think you get much back for Keldon which is why I See him as a core piece. I think we could make a solid 6th man backing up the 3 with some spot minutes at the 4
Yeah I like that idea he is a good solid vet good locker room guy keep him but at his age if you can flip him for a first you do it.
poetle...put another big next to him....having keldon play pf and if he aint rebounding, why play him at pf? look at his reb numbers, they are low for a starting pf
Plus Leonard was very young with high upside, therefore while he wasn’t consistent at that point, he could put together incredibly impressive play on both ends that would ultimately lead to him becoming a HOF candidate. The upside there was unlike anything the current Spurs have I don’t think.
Mostly agree. Largely due to the dearth of league wide depth at his position, Johnson is probably closer to low-end starter already though and with the way they've hyped him up, their aversion to tanking and affinity for "culture", he's also probably closer to an untouchable than many seem to think/hope.
Other than that, Collins probably closer to a rotation player with role-player ceiling.
Dejounte sucks.
I don't really think this, but just wanted to mess with OP
What position are we referring to here?
Combo forwards or even forwards in general. Especially those who are adept medium-high volume, spot up 3-point shooters.
That is why we need an actually lengthy PF who could either help to provide help defense or get the DReb when Poeltl is out of position and KJ could do neither effectively.
I looked up several lists that rated power forwards in the league. One did not include Johnson in the top 100. Another had his highest rating at 18. Top NBA power forwards for 2021-22: Ranking all 30 starters | Sporting News Power Forward Players List on NBA 2K22 | 2K Ratings He is eager and willing, but simply doesn't have the skills nor the physical attributes to be a legitimate 4 nor to move over to the 3, especially when we have some other players who can play that position better.
I don't blame Johnson for the Pels loss by himself. After all our best player, Murray, shot a miserable 5-19. But a lot of the ills on this squad can be traced back to Johnson at PF. His unlikely improvement in shooting forced Pop to put him on the floor as a starter, but the Pels game showed the problem with this lineup. If you looked up "bench player" in a Basketball dictionary, you'd see a picture of Keldon. This game showed all his limitations as a "tweener" with no speed, no BB IQ, and limited skills in passing, rebounding, and defense. The taller and speedier Pels simply ate him up one on one or on switches.
Finding someone to take his place has to be the biggest goal of the off season. I don't think there will be many...er... any... teams looking to trade for him. Let's hope for a good draft pick for the PF position or maybe a trade or FA. There are a lot of better PF free agents according to the list that omitted him from the top 100.
Short of figuring out some magical way to add players, their ceiling is the play in tournament imo
Wow, dude is litterally an HOFer.
And so is Tracy McGrady. This would be different if we were talking about 2005, say. But in 2014, Ginobili was a sixth man coming off a horrible Finals, and while I think Kawhi's fMVP that year gets overrated, he and Manu were in the same tier for that series.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
