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Eh, let him spy for all I care. I pose no threat to national security, so I've got nothing to hide.
NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET
USA TodayGen. Michael Hayden, nominated by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic phone record collection program.
From the White House:
The White House defended its overall eavesdropping program and said no domestic surveillance is conducted without court approval.
''The intelligence activities undertaken by the United States government are lawful, necessary and required to protect Americans from terrorist attacks,'' said Dana Perino, the deputy White House press secretary, who added that appropriate members of Congress have been briefed on intelligence activities.
From Capitol Hill:
Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he would call the phone companies to appear before the panel ''to find out exactly what is going on.''
Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the ranking Democrat on the panel, sounded incredulous about the latest report and railed against what he called a lack of congressional oversight. He argued that the media was doing the job of Congress.
''Are you telling me that tens of millions of Americans are involved with al Qaeda?'' Leahy asked. ''These are tens of millions of Americans who are not suspected of anything ... Where does it stop?''
The Democrat, who at one point held up a copy of the newspaper, added: ''Shame on us for being so far behind and being so willing to rubber stamp anything this administration does. We ought to fold our tents.''
The report came as the former NSA director, Gen. Michael Hayden - Bush's choice to take over leadership of the CIA - had been scheduled to visit lawmakers on Capitol Hill Thursday. However, the meetings with Republican Sens. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska were postponed at the request of the White House, said congressional aides in the two Senate offices.
--
Bush administration officials have said repeatedly that the warrantless surveillance program authorized by President Bush after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is carefully targeted to include only international calls and e-mails into or out of the USA, and only those that involve at least one party suspected of being a member or ally of al-Qaeda or a related terror group.
Some comments related to what the administration calls the "Terrorist Surveillance Program," and surveillance in general:
Gen. Michael Hayden, principal deputy director of national intelligence, and now Bush's nominee to head the CIA, at the National Press Club, Jan. 23, 2006:
"The program ... is not a drift net over (U.S. cities such as) Dearborn or Lackawanna or Fremont, grabbing conversations that we then sort out by these alleged keyword searches or data-mining tools or other devices that so-called experts keep talking about.
"This is targeted and focused. This is not about intercepting conversations between people in the United States. This is hot pursuit of communications entering or leaving America involving someone we believe is associated with al-Qaeda. ... This is focused. It's targeted. It's very carefully done. You shouldn't worry."
Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Feb. 6, 2006:
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales: "Only international communications are authorized for interception under this program. That is, communications between a foreign country and this country. ...
"To protect the privacy of Americans still further, the NSA employs safeguards to minimize the unnecessary collection and dissemination of information about U.S. persons."
Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del.: "I don't understand why you would limit your eavesdropping only to foreign conversations. ..."
Gonzales: "I believe it's because of trying to balance concerns that might arise that, in fact, the NSA was engaged in electronic surveillance with respect to domestic calls."
By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: The NSA record collection program
"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.
For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made — across town or across the country — to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.
The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said.
The sources would talk only under a guarantee of anonymity because the NSA program is secret.
Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program.
The NSA's domestic program, as described by sources, is far more expansive than what the White House has acknowledged. Last year, Bush said he had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop — without warrants — on international calls and international e-mails of people suspected of having links to terrorists when one party to the communication is in the USA. Warrants have also not been used in the NSA's efforts to create a national call database.
In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. "In other words," Bush explained, "one end of the communication must be outside the United States."
As a result, domestic call records — those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders — were believed to be private.
Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information.
Don Weber, a senior spokesman for the NSA, declined to discuss the agency's operations. "Given the nature of the work we do, it would be irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operational issues; therefore, we have no information to provide," he said. "However, it is important to note that NSA takes its legal responsibilities seriously and operates within the law."
The White House would not discuss the domestic call-tracking program. "There is no domestic surveillance without court approval," said Dana Perino, deputy press secretary, referring to actual eavesdropping.
And now you know why Dubya is trying to hand the Internet to Verizon, AT&T, Bell South, etc -- the same companies helping the NSA and the Bush Junta spy on Americans. A payback for services rendered -- and a way to allow these same companies to close down any freedom on the Internet as well.
Eh, let him spy for all I care. I pose no threat to national security, so I've got nothing to hide.
Knowledge is power. Want to spy on political enemies or subverts?
Qwest has declined to participate in NSA illegal wire-tapping program:
9 NEWSAmong the big telecommunications companies, only Denver-based Qwest refused to help the National Security Agency, sources tell USA TODAY.
According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer calling information to the government without warrants.
The NSA originally approached Qwest and other major phone carriers in 2001 after the attacks of Sept. 11. They said turning over the "call-detail records" was a matter of national security. The records don't include names and addresses with the phone numbers, rather they show calling activity. Still personal customer information, according to USA TODAY, could be located by cross-checking the entries with other databases.
According to sources familiar with the events, Qwest's CEO at the time, Joe Nacchio, was deeply troubled by the NSA's assertion that Qwest didn't need a court order - or approval under FISA - to proceed. Adding to the tension, Qwest was unclear about who, exactly, would have access to its customers' information and how that information might be used.
By the way, your in the minority. 75% of pollers on this CNN Poll find the illegal wiretaps 'Creepy" (I guess that's CNNs attempt at humor)
The reason people on the left of the political spectrum generally are more sensitive to this than others is when the abuses begin, they are generally the subject of the legally questionable practices. Back in the 60s and 70s the anti-war movement were illegally wiretapped by the FBI.
Recently, anti-war people, enviromental groups and even vegans and Quakers have been the subject of the hounding tactics.
You're doing nothing wrong? Neither am I but I don't want to be the target of the government invading my privacy because I may have differing views on what government policy is.
When you take into account the wingnut media types like Coulter and her ilk who refer to liberals as treasonous, anti-American, etc.... Some may even adopt the way of thinking of why not eavesdrop on "those" people.
But we are all Americans. We don't accept some "benevolent" dictator picking who and who can't enjoy the freedoms our forefathers created for this nation.
All we are saying is follow the intent of the cons ution. Don't act alone, consult the judiciary and get a warrant.
Reed Hundt, former FCC Chair writes:
Talking Points Memo“No one should imagine that what NSA has done, if reports are accurate, is normal behavior or standard procedure in the interaction between a private communications network and the government. In an authoritarian country without a bill of rights and with state ownership of the communications network, such eavesdropping by people and computers is assumed to exist. But in the United States it is assumed not to occur, except under very carefully defined cir stances that, according to reports, were not present as NSA allegedly arm-twisted telephone companies into compliance. That is a topic that can’t be avoided in the general’s hearing, if he gets that far.”
Big brother is watching you.
Oh get over yourselves already! They are not taping any calls and they are not listening to any calls. They have simply set up a program that can ferret out patterns of phone calls - and then they can determine if they need to listen. Oh BTW, this program was approved by the Supreme Court during the CLINTON administration - this is not some new "Bush" program.
If you're not making calls to or receiving calls from a known terrorist organization, then you have nothing to worry about.
I can't believe the extreme arrogance of people who think they are sooo important that they government must want to listen in on their phone conversations. What's funny is that these are probably some of the same people who talk on their cellphones incessantly, in public, so that anyone and everyone can hear all their business!!
So now you’re saying there are 50 million Al-Queda sympathizers in the U.S.? This isn't just a benign surveillance program, with virtually no over-sight, the potential abuse of this program is something comparable to surveillance programs found in fascist states. We aren't just spying on Al-quada anymore; the government has set up a database on every American in the U.S.
Amendment #4 in the Bill of Rights sez:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The President's job is to uphold the Cons ution. If he can't follow the rule of law, then he needs to move to a third-world banana republic, where whatever the local dictator says, goes.
Be on alert Spurstalk!
I am reading your posts and checkin' your PM's.
God Bless America
Amendment #4 in the Bill of Rights sez:Guess what - the 4th amendment doesn't cover the PHONE NUMBERS - just the conversations. The phone numbers belong to the phone companies and there is no expectation of privacy regarding the numbers you call."The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Do any of you ever watch Law and Order or other police shows? They are always pulling the phone records of suspects to see who they're calling and who's calling them - and they don't need a warrant to get the records!
The bottom line is that this program has been in effect for many, many years and has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Squawk all you want - but the protection of this country is far more important than your piddly little lives.
how many piddly lives is it worth, then?
Edit: You dumb , facist, asshole, pig.
Well, in order to do that, you have to invoke the seldom-used "Must See TV" exception to the Fourth Amendment. The majority of jurisdictions no longer recognize the exception, but if you find a judge who doesn't know what he is doing, you might get lucky.
Wrong answer - but thanks for playing! You can go online and, for a fee, get the personal records of just about anybody, including itemized cellphone bills! If the information is out there for anybody to get - why all the screaming about the Federal Govt running a program on numbers to see if there is a pattern of calls to terrorist organizations?
Well, as far as I know, this program has not cost any American citizen their life. However, if it saves lives by preventing another 9/11 - isn't it worth it? I say yes!how many piddly lives is it worth, then?
And thus becomes the communications choice of terrorists worldwide.
I think terra' ist would prefer the no-contract pay-and-throw phones.
Thanks to the first illegal leak of the NSA program.
Exactly! I would think the ILLEGAL leak has the potential to cost far more lives than the "illegal" wiretapping!Thanks to the first illegal leak of the NSA program.
Yea San Antonio has been part of that Spy Machine that Al Queda Dan hates.
What do you think we do at Electronic Hill at Lackland?
It's to play ping pong and eat lunch in.... it has nothing to do with the worlds most advanced *** * ** *** ** **** * *
Al Queda Dan and Taliboutons would be the FIRST people here on this forum to BLAME GW BUSH if they DIDN"T tap terrorists and another major attack happend.
Also how is the DNC promising better security if they won't use digital comm?
I'll tell you how.. It's BULL .. they don't care about your security and they don't care about oil prices. They want both bad.. they want bombings, terror and bad economy.
You just think you were talking to your mom. NSA redirected the call in order to brain wash you to eat your veggies.
Oh, don't worry, the NSA has e-mails covered too.
http://www.monashreport.com/category...ivacy/privacy/
By the time Dubya is finished, terrorists hoping to operate in this country will be reduced to homing pigeons and smoke signals.
Oh my g=d the sky is falling, the sky is falling. They have my phone numbers and
know who I'm calling. What am I to do, oh, what am I to do. I know, I know.
SA210 will let me under the bridge and butons will protect me and dan will keep us
briefed on the latest intel. Sigh......now I fell better already. Now if I can find some
kindly Illegal to help me find a new job.
Interesting that someone such as myself always capitalizes "God," while you .... d=n't.
You people have no idea about the tracking capability this country has had upon its citizens since the 1970's.
You don't understand data mining for trends & patterns.
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