Dubya Militarizing the Border

[Nbadan]

Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
1 minute ago

WASHINGTON

- President Bush, trying to build momentum for a major overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, is considering plans to shore up the Mexican border with National Guard troops paid for by the federal government, according to senior administration officials.

One defense official said military leaders believe the number of troops required could range from 3,500 to perhaps 10,000, depending on the final plan. Another administration official cautioned that the 10,000 figure was too high.

The officials insisted on anonymity since no decision has been announced.

The president was expected to reveal his plans in an address Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. It will be the first time he has used the Oval Office for a domestic policy speech — a gesture intended to underscore the importance he places on the divisive immigration issue.

The key questions Friday were exactly how many National Guard troops might be deployed, for how long and at what cost to federal taxpayers — as well as the problem of possible disruption of upcoming deployments to Iraq and elsewhere overseas.

Yahoo News

Dubya's kissing up to his minute-men base.

[EVAY]

Part (and only part) of Dubya's problem is that he continues to believe he can accomplish something with very little...too little...If he wanted to control Iraq, he needed more feet on the ground...if he wanted to help hurricane victims...he needed a competent group of responders, but he had gutted FEMA's budget...if he wanted to catch Usama Bin Laden, he needed to put the kind of resources he sent to Iraq to Afghanistan...and keep them there until he was done.

So now he wants to solve border issues with the same folks he has assigned to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Gulf Coast. This is to APPEAR that he is committed to the problem, but in fact the guard is stretched way too thin, and he won't ask for more troops from elsewhere.

His use of national guard resources is profligate, but they are cheaper than anything else he has to offer...and he will always offer the least he can get away with, whether money or people. The long term effect is more people and more money than would have been required in the first place if he had planned it properly.

[Nbadan]

It's always more about appearance than anything else. That's why we can guarantee nothing will be done about the illegal immigration issue.

[Vashner]

What a load of bull ...

Damn you not that ing stupid are you? Dubya is Immigrant FRIENDLY...

The states want to enforce it.. the party is putting pressure on him to do something.


And that about Afganistan.. that's bull .. if he's in Pakistan you either invade or do covert.

What do you think Sandy Burgerler was stuffing in his socks? Papers showing clinton ed up with Osama...

[EVAY]

What a load of bull ...

Damn you not that ing stupid are you? Dubya is Immigrant FRIENDLY...

The states want to enforce it.. the party is putting pressure on him to do something.


And that about Afganistan.. that's bull .. if he's in Pakistan you either invade or do covert.

What do you think Sandy Burgerler was stuffing in his socks? Papers showing clinton ed up with Osama...

Vashner, has W. found Bin Laden? Why are you still beating the Clinton horse when W. went in to Afghanistan ( as he should have), but tried to "get by on the cheap" (which was the point of my post anyway), and the result is 10000 guys who can't find him (not that they aren't trying - I think they are great), but IT IS NOT ENOUGH!!!!

We need to put whatever resources it takes to get the guy...stop complaining about what was unless you can say it has gotten better under the current administration. Is W. some sort of infallible person to you? Are we going to blame Clinton forever??? When do we get to hold W. responsible for ANY results?

[Nbadan]

Vashner, has W. found Bin Laden? Why are you still beating the Clinton horse when W. went in to Afghanistan ( as he should have), but tried to "get by on the cheap" (which was the point of my post anyway), and the result is 10000 guys who can't find him (not that they aren't trying - I think they are great), but IT IS NOT ENOUGH!!!!

We need to put whatever resources it takes to get the guy...stop complaining about what was unless you can say it has gotten better under the current administration. Is W. some sort of infallible person to you? Are we going to blame Clinton forever??? When do we get to hold W. responsible for ANY results?

Blaming Clinton is the fallback position of all the wingnuts like Vashner.

Economy sliding 2 years after Dubya takes office - blame Clinton.

Terra ist' strike a year after Dubya takes office - blame Clinton.

North Korea got the bomb? - blame Clinton.

Faulty intelligence leads to war that kills 100,000+ - blame Clinton.

High school kids giving blow jobs and having anal sex - blame Clinton.

Imaginary Gorelick intelligence wall that led to 911 - blame Clinton.

The Cole bombing that happened under Bush41? - blame Clinton.

The tower bombings that happened under Reagan? - blame Clinton.


And Bush apologist wonder where Bush critics like myself get their best material from.

[xrayzebra]

^^Well you got most of it right dan. That is an improvement.

[Nbadan]

Back to the Militarization of the border which W is set to propose in a National Speech tonight...

The last time the U.S. military posted troops on the border near this tiny cluster of farms and ranches, an 18-year-old goat herder was shot to death. Hardly a day passes that Esequiel Hernandez Jr.'s family and neighbors don't think of May 20, 1997, the day a U.S. Marine corporal shot and killed him.


And now a rumored presidential proposal to deploy National Guard troops along the Mexican border has his younger sister, Rebecca Hernandez, worried that other border residents or even her nephews, who tend goats along the same rugged desert where her brother was killed, could be the next victims.

It is widely speculated that President Bush will unveil a plan to send troops to the border during a Monday night speech about immigration reform. Details of the plan are unclear but at least one defense official estimated that thousands of troops could be deployed as part of security initiative.

The last time area residents saw the military working on the border in their Big Bend region town, the Marines assigned to an anti-drug mission were explaining what led to Esequiel Hernandez's death.

MySA.com

How many more goat herders have to die?

[xrayzebra]

Vashner, has W. found Bin Laden? Why are you still beating the Clinton horse when W. went in to Afghanistan ( as he should have), but tried to "get by on the cheap" (which was the point of my post anyway), and the result is 10000 guys who can't find him (not that they aren't trying - I think they are great), but IT IS NOT ENOUGH!!!!



We need to put whatever resources it takes to get the guy...stop complaining about what was unless you can say it has gotten better under the current administration. Is W. some sort of infallible person to you? Are we going to blame Clinton forever??? When do we get to hold W. responsible for ANY results?

Is catching OBL going to end anything? What is it with
you people. Our government knew who was behind many
bombings before Bush came along and the government
didn't want to do much about it. It is no about blaming
Clinton, damnit, he did have his chanceS and blew them.
The administration before Bush (Clinton's) caused many
problems but you folks want even begin to own up to
those problems. Your all full of it.

[xrayzebra]

Back to the Militarization of the border which W is set to propose in a National Speech tonight...



MySA.com

How many more goat herders have to die?

Yeah, how many? Do we have to give our country away to
satisfy you? The military guy was blamed, but if I remember
correctly, there was two sides of the story. Like he was
shooting at the military guy. But knowing you...well you
know the rest of the story.

[LittleGeneral]

This is just horrible.

[JoeChalupa]

This is simply a political move and we all know that. Bush is losing his beloved conservative base so he needs to throw a little somethin', somethin' to appease them. I know Vashener and Yonivore will see it for what it is....at least I hope they can admit it.

[Yonivore]

This is simply a political move and we all know that. Bush is losing his beloved conservative base so he needs to throw a little somethin', somethin' to appease them. I know Vashener and Yonivore will see it for what it is....at least I hope they can admit it.

Except for the fact the Conservative base isn't as stupid as the Democrat base and if they see it as being thrown a bone, it won't do the Republicans any favors.

[Nbadan]

The Army Reserve, tapped to protect the border under W's new plan is nearly broken:

The U.S. Army Reserve, tapped heavily to provide soldiers for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, is “degenerating into a ‘broken’ force” due to dysfunctional military policies, the Army Reserve’s chief said in a memo made public Wednesday.

“I do not wish to sound alarmist. I do wish to send a clear, distinctive signal of deepening concern,” Lt. Gen. James Helmly said in a Dec. 20 memo to Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker.

-snip-

In his eight-page memo, first disclosed by the Baltimore Sun, Helmly led one section “US Army Reserve Readiness Discussion, Past Dysfunctional Practices/Policies.”

-snip-

Helmly’s remarks gave fuel to critics of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld who argue that his policies and his resistance to a large increase in the active-duty Army are harming the all-volunteer military.

-snip-

Helmly referred to “potential ‘sociological’ damage” to the all-volunteer military by paying inducements of $1,000 extra per month to reservists who volunteer to remobilize.

“We must consider the point at which we confuse ’volunteer to become an American Soldier’ with ' mercenary,”’ Helmly said.

MSNBC

[Vashner]

This is simply a political move and we all know that. Bush is losing his beloved conservative base so he needs to throw a little somethin', somethin' to appease them. I know Vashener and Yonivore will see it for what it is....at least I hope they can admit it.

I'll agree that Dubya did NOT want to do this but was forced from public and political pressure.

He needs some workers for projects on the Ranch after he get's out

But Dubya did want the guest worker program.... not so much the enforcment part PER SAY over the existing increase in officers.

And I know a lot of LEO's.. there is a shortage right now of good people to fill these jobs.

These soldiers are going to assist and not going out to HURT immigrants. So I have no problem with it.

[Trainwreck2100]

But once they are done protecting the border, will the troops be able to leave.

[gameFACE]

Geez, is the military also going to help police US companies and individuals who hire illegal immigrants? It amazes me that all the focus is on the "illegal immigrants" and not the legal residents who are hiring them.

Another cheap attempt at patriotism.

[Yonivore]

By all accounts, he's pissed off both extremes. Must have got it right then.

[scott]

Question... since "Border Security" is the #1 item on many people's (Republican and Democrat) priority list on this topic... what about the northern border?

In my travels, I've noticed it is much easier to get across the Canadian border than the Mexican border (both leaving and re-entering the US). A large portion of illegal substances already come across the Canadian border, and won't potential terrorists/undesirable visitors just avoid the southern border and come in from the north?

I'm a bit disappointed that Bush compromised on the guest worker program (or at least he is seeming to, based on my understanding of his initial idea). Now it's nothing more than the already existing work visas. The biggest problem with "illegal immigration" is the "illegal" part. Why should it be illegal for any person in the world to go to any other part of the world to work? This is nothing more than the free trade of labor - and the current system is nothing more than quota system on compe ive labor entering the US, which only serves to artificially inflate the cost of labor domestically, providing the incentive for companies to export jobs.

It seems that on the labor front, Americans are afraid of compe ion - perhaps out of the fear that some of us really aren't worth our saleries. If a Canadian/Mexican/Cambodian/Russian/Nigerian is qualified and able to do my job just as well as I am and is willing to do it at a lower price... why should I be given preferential treatment just because I was lucky enough to be born here? At the same time, if I can make twice as much working in China or Europe or wherever, I should be allowed to "export" myself to achieve maximum value.

Trade barriers aren't economically beneficial for commodities, goods, and services... and it is no different for the good we call labor.

However, just because I go to China to work or a Mexican comes to America to work shouldn't grant them citizenship. Part of the problem with our system is we want to attach residence with citizenship too much. This is something that Europe has done right. You are a citizen of Italy, for example, but you are also a citizen of the European Union and you are eligible to work in any European Union member country. But an Italian working in Germany doesn't automatically get a path to citizenship in Germany.

Ideally, we could start with a "NAFTA Citizenship" or something to that effect which would, along with other rights, allow for the free trade of labor in the member states. Long term, there would be "global citizenship" which would just be complete global free trade - but there is obviously a laundry list of issues around that. There is, however, no reason to restrict movement, resident, or work status of Americans, Canadians and Mexicans, other than to protect over-paid Americans. Some claim they want to help improverished nations like Mexico - but it will never happen so long as trade barries like the one we place on labor exists.

"NAFTA Citizens" as I envision them, should be responsible for taxes in the nations/states in which they reside - but only the ones they gets explicit or implicit benefits from. Let's take someone who comes to work in the US as an example... that person should be accountable for income taxes, as the programs they *generally* fund (ignore SS or Medicare program deficits that potentially require funding from income taxes) public goods and services that any person living this country benefits from (defense, roads, education, etc.). That person, however, should not pay into nor should they recieve any benefit from social programs such as Social Security or Medicare (or whatever other program is invented). Those programs (ignoring their relative merits or shortcomings) should be for citizens.

Generally, I feel the path to citizenship in this country (and any country for that matter) should be difficult... but the path to live & work here should be easy and open. Labor is not exempt from the principal of free trade.

[NASCARdad]

People coming in through the North are of better quality than those coming in from the South.

[Nbadan]

The Senate has voted for a 370 mile Berlin-wall to be built to stop those pesky messicans..

WASHINGTON - The Senate voted to build 370 miles of triple-layered fencing along the Mexican border Wednesday, and clashed over citizenship for millions of men and women who live in the United States illegally.

Amid increasingly emotional debate over election-year immigration legislation, senators voted 83-16 to add fencing and 500 miles of vehicle barriers along the southern border. It marked the first significant victory in two days for conservatives seeking to place their stamp on the contentious measure.

The prospects were less favorable for their attempt to strip out portions of the legislation that could allow citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants and create new guest worker programs.

MSNBC

[Cant_Be_Faded]

spoken like a true journalist

welcome back oscar, hope Big Nate wasn't too hard on ya

[chode_regulator]

High school kids giving blow jobs and having anal sex - blame Clinton.

roflroflorlforlf
funniest post ina while

but seriously...the president/s before the current are always blamed for neg about the current...whetehr dem or repub

[Yonivore]

The Senate has voted for a 370 mile Berlin-wall to be built to stop those pesky messicans..



MSNBC

It's about 1,600 miles too short.

[John Doe]

The husband of a coworker of mine was a border patrol agent and he said they had a decent ratio of caught vs successful entries, but according to him they were urged into a more relaxed vigilence due to political pressure from the agriculture business. Seems they were losing money due to lack or shortage of field workers.