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Vent thread. We all have our moments. But we already know refs suck.
The WWE has a referee problem. The NBA has a catasrophe.
Just for the record, the Pistons have lost 74 games since they traded for Rasheed Wallace in February, 2004. This includes the postseason. Last night's officials were Dan Crawford, Mark Wunderlich, and Tom Washington. When I saw who the officials were, I turned off the TV. I knew the Pistons were going to lose and badly. I'm not blaming it all on the referees, but when the Pistons have Dan Crawford on the court, Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace get little love. They get in early foul trouble, it takes away their agressiveness defensively, and it leads to double-digit Piston losses. Crawford has been the referee in 9 of the Pistons losses since that time (about 14% overall). Washington has been the referee in 6 Pistons losses (8%), and Mark Wunderlich in 5 (7%).
The Pistons take a lot of blame in this, but the Pistons' starting center's worst game of his postseason career came with Danny Crawford as the referee, and the Pistons cut it to one yesterday with Antonio McDyess on the floor. Wallace was subs uted for McDyess, and suddenly the Pistons are back down by 13.
There are a lot of contributing factors, but I'd rather have Earl Hindman as the ref at the next Pistons game than this guy (stay away from Ron Garrettson and Ken Mauer, too).
By the way, the guy on the court for the most Piston losses (10 account for 14%) was the referee who gave Rasheed a technical foul for staring at him. He was on the floor as the Pistons took on the Spurs in last year's deciding game of the NBA Finals (Rasheed in serious foul trouble).
Ron Garrettson: key losses.
- 5/9/04 at New Jersey - Pistons score 64 points in blowout loss to Nets.
- 11/19/04 vs Indiana - He was there for the Brawl.
- 6/2/05 vs Miami - Pistons fall down 3-2 to Heat.
- 6/9/05 at San Antonio - Pistons lose big in game 2.
The NBA has a huge problem on their hands.
Last edited by Darrin; 05-28-2006 at 02:48 PM.
Vent thread. We all have our moments. But we already know refs suck.
I wish that's all it was. I'm not kidding - I had to watch the highlights of the game to know what happened. I shut off the game when they announced the referees.
The Pistons sucked last night.
Danny Crawford actually didn't hurt the Pistons yesterday.
That's bull . Check the play-by-play - Ben and Rasheed had one personal within the first 4 minutes of that game.
R. Wallace Foul: Offensive (1 PF) 9:22 left in 1st.
B. Wallace Foul: Shooting (1 PF) 8:11 left in 1st.
8 minutes into the game, Rasheed Wallace had his second:
R. Wallace Foul: Personal (2 PF) 4:00 left in 1st.
That from two of the best post defenders (and league leaders in least personal fouls).
This consistently happens; it's not a one-time deal.
Ummmm, you just admitted you didn't watch the game.
Rasheed HOOKED Haslem on his offensive foul. Good call.
And, there were no quesitons about the Rasheed's second foul or Ben's first foul.
How can you say it's bull when you didn't even watch the game?
No offence, but I've always considered Danny Crawford the best ref in the league, so perhaps it goes the other way too, that those two get away with a lot of uncalled fouls when there's a lesser ref calling the game...
The problem isn't neccessarily that certain refs have it out for certain teams or players, it's more certain refs call the games differently, and different teams benefit from different kinds of reffing.
Because I have watched the other 8 losses, and it follows a trend. The 124-104 spackling by the Bucks - when Ben Wallace played 29 minutes and Rasheed had 4 fouls. Rip Hamilton gets 5 fouls.
The game 5 loss that dropped the Pistons into a 3-2 series hole to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Rasheed Wallace had 5 fouls and played 22 minutes. Chauncey Billups fouled out.
Game 5 versus the Spurs, 96-95 on Robert Horry's 3-pointer...the loss that dropped the Pistons into a 2-1 series hole to the Heat last season...the blowout loss to the Atlanta Hawks on the Pistons homecourt last season...
I didn't just decide to wake up and blame Dan Crawford for a loss.
The Pistons went from winning in games called by Danny Crawford to losing them. The turning point? When Rasheed Wallace joined the team.
You're right; certain teams benefit and it goes the other way on other refs. But who's assigning the referees to these games? The NBA office.
I didn't say Danny Crawford doesn't not like Rasheed. I didn't say he hasn't hurt the Pistons in the past.
I said last night, Danny Crawford did not hurt the Pistons. And, you not watching the game proves nothing with respect to last night's game.
Except that I have so little respect for him that I turned off a pivotal Eastern Conference Finals game. I have never, ever, ever, turned off a game because of a referee before. The post wasn't about Crawford as much as the state of refereeing in the NBA.
So what, the NBA shouldn't assign Crawford to Piston games cause they've lost some games with him reffing?
Darrin you're an excellent poster here and Danny Crawford sucks and absolutely has cost the Pistons to lose some games but I didn't feel he played a part in last nights game. IMO
I did quit watching in the 4th quarter after the Heat went back up by 8 so I'm not sure how the officiating went during the last 5 minutes.
I'm honestly stunned to read this from Darrin.
I could see the point if there were obviously horrendous calls that went against the Pistons and Crawford had something to do with them. I could see the point if there was a situation where things were called inconsistently and badly against the Pistons bigs. I could see the point of this thread with the way things were called (or not called) at the end of Game 2 of the ECF.
I didn't see any of that last night, though.
'Some games!?!'
Perhaps I didn't paint a bleak enough picture for you. The Pistons "improved" to 0-6 in the playoffs the last two seasons with Dan Crawford a referee.
2005: Game 3 ECSF - Pistons fall into 2-1 series hole to the lower-seeded Indiana Pacers.
2005: Game 3 ECF - Pistons fall into 2-1 series hole to the Miami Heat, undoing their work to gain homecourt advantage from Miami.
2005: Game 2 NBA Finals - Pistons fall into 2-0 series hole without homecourt advantage.
2006: Game 3 ECQF - Pistons lose by a 20-point margin, give up 124 points, the most since 1991 in the playoffs, and allow their opponent to shoot 60%.
2006: Game 5 ECSF - Pistons fall into 3-2 series hole giving Lebron James and the Cavs a chance to win a series on their home floor.
2006: Game 3 ECF - Pistons fall into another 2-1 series hole.
It's about no-calls. Calls that are made or are not that take away the Pistons agressive play on the interior, making it harder for Shaq, making it harder for lane pentration. It's the clutching and grabbing allowed on Tayshaun Prince, but not on Antoine Walker that allows him to get into the lane and throw lob passes to Shaquille O'Neal. It's our interior players afraid to go for blocked shots for fear it will send them to the bench. Did those things happen last night?
A referee can make just as much impact by swallowing his whistle as not using it. And the inconsistency from one side of the court to the other is pathetic.
I'm not letting the Pistons off the hook. All I know is that each time Crawford has been inserted into a potential series lead for the Pistons, they don't get it.
As far as being stunned, I try not to push the "excuse" button too often so that when I do, it makes an impact. I want to have my facts straight first.
Again, so what? The NBA has to stop letting Crawford ref Pistons games because the Pistons haven't gotten it done with him reffing? If he actually has the audacity to call fouls on Ben or Sheed then that's something they have to adjust to. If the Pistons have a 0-6 record in games officiated by Danny Crawford, that's on the Pistons and no one else. Not on the NBA, not on Danny Crawford, not on David Stern.
BTW, I assume you have the same opinion about refs who the Pistons have done well with, they clearly shouldn't be officiating Piston games either.
I do. Give me someone who has given both teams a fair shake. I don't want a referee that's 0-7 calling Heat games and 8-0 calling the Pistons. Give me someone who's fairer than that; someone who serves the rules, not the teams.
All in all, it doesn't come down to their records, it comes down to their officiating game situations. And if a trend like sending the Pistons starting line to the bench emerges, then don't send him to officiate an important game. Give both teams a fair shake.
Explain to me why it's on the Pistons to adjust to bad officiating?
Cause that's all you can do and that's what every team in the league has to do. I'm not going to argue that the officiating in the league is great or even consistent but it is what it is, and I don't think stopping good refs from officiating games of a certain team just because they've lost too many games with them officiating (or won too many games) is a particularly good solution.
I agree with that for the most part, but even if such a trend exists it doesn't mean that they're biased against Detroit or anything like that. The Pistons play a pretty physical brand of defense (not unlike the Spurs, when they're so inclined) so if you get an official who tends to call the game tighter (which is not neccessarily "wrong," just a different way to call it) then the Pistons' physical defenders can get in early foul trouble.
Last edited by Winnipeg_Spur; 05-28-2006 at 07:24 PM.
I understand Darrins feelings about Crawford, in the past he has blatantly missed calls right in front of him on a consistent basis against the Pistons which have cost him games. There's no adjusting to that Winnipeg.
Dumars filed several complaints with the NBA in the past regarding Crawfords officiating. I don't feel Crawford played a part in the Game 3 loss so maybe Crawford has made an effort to be more fair.
Anytime a fan is more afraid of the man in the refs shirt more than the one in the opposing jersey, there is a problem.
With the fan or the ref?
With the fan or the ref?
I meant, you're not afraid of how the opponents going to play, but how the game will be called.
the biggest compliment to a referee is that the fan doesn't realize they are out there. How many times have we heard that?
What a pointless thread.
Complaining about the calls when you didn't even watch the game?
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