“Not just another I hate Cuban thread”….

[ShackO]

There is no shortage of Cuban haters out there but I think many are starting to see that “yea he is an ass, but perhaps he can be a useful ass, @ least @ times”….

Some of his antics and comments are pretty stupid but I gotta give him props if he is getting under the skin of david fuxing stern and shinning a light on some of the unorthodox and dictatorial practices in stern’s nba……..

In most corporations it is called whistle blowing and is praised. In the stern’s nba it is called making trouble (just like it use to be called in the rest of the corporate world)… The Van Gundy’s of the world can be fined into silence and submission but not the pudgy guy with bad teeth sitting behind the Mavs bench…

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason…. Excuses, justifications and numbers such as 5-7% are missed called according to the liar stern………. (He never address the fact that not all “missed calls” are equal in impact on the outcome of the game…….. Also they have no problem going back and fining and suspending someone but are unable to even apologize for doing their job poorly and affecting the outcome..)

I wonder if he will ever be called on it and asked to substantiate those phantom numbers…….. ????? I am sure any two-bit nba pundit with access to the tapes would be able to rub his nose in his numbers in short order…..

One last point that sickens me is how stern has gotten away with selling the lie that to question or complain about the job he and his employees are doing is not in the “best interest of the game”………. IMO this is equivalent to telling victims not to resist their victimizer as they will only make it worse………. It’s going to get worse anyway so you probably have nothing to loose…………..


david stern………………….

[mabber]

There is no shortage of Cuban haters out there but I think many are starting to see that “yea he is an ass, but perhaps he can be a useful ass, @ least @ times”….

Some of his antics and comments are pretty stupid but I gotta give him props if he is getting under the skin of david fuxing stern and shinning a light on some of the unorthodox and dictatorial practices in stern’s nba……..

In most corporations it is called whistle blowing and is praised. In the stern’s nba it is called making trouble (just like it use to be called in the rest of the corporate world)… The Van Gundy’s of the world can be fined into silence and submission but not the pudgy guy with bad teeth sitting behind the Mavs bench…

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason…. Excuses, justifications and numbers such as 5-7% are missed called according to the liar stern………. (He never address the fact that not all “missed calls” are equal in impact on the outcome of the game…….. Also they have no problem going back and fining and suspending someone but are unable to even apologize for doing their job poorly and affecting the outcome..)

I wonder if he will ever be called on it and asked to substantiate those phantom numbers…….. ????? I am sure any two-bit nba pundit with access to the tapes would be able to rub his nose in his numbers in short order…..

One last point that sickens me is how stern has gotten away with selling the lie that to question or complain about the job he and his employees are doing is not in the “best interest of the game”………. IMO this is equivalent to telling victims not to resist their victimizer as they will only make it worse………. It’s going to get worse anyway so you probably have nothing to loose…………..


david stern………………….

Mike Mathis (former NBA ref) was on radio the other day and he said it was "scary" how correct Cuban was about the poor state of affairs that NBA officiating is (a lot of the details). He said Cuban's stats, etc. that he's been bringing to the league are right on. I think the league wants to and is trying to make things better but they would just prefer Cuban not contiually calling them out on stuff in public. Hey, if Cuban doesn't care about what people think about him (it's obvious that he doesn't) then I'm totally on board with him ranting and raving to get something done about the officiating. All he's really asking for is some more accountability (refs) just like what's expected of any other employee of a corporation. Plus, more training for these refs. Mike Mathis says the league still uses the "buddy system" when hiring some of these refs. A lot of qualified refs are getting passed up cuz someone "knows someone" in the right place.

[DirkAB]

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason….

I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

[picnroll]

Funny how very few Mavs fans were complaining about the refs after game one of the Spurs series. Mostly they were just telling everyone to stop whining and occassionally complaining about the lack of fairness and conistency in disqualifying players like Terry by the league office. Somehow after the Miami series poor reffing has become a major issue. Any ideas why that is?

[baseline bum]

Cuban. He masquerades as a voice of reform, but he's just a whiner who complains when all the calls don't go his way. He never said a word about Dirk shooting 24 FT in game 3 or the phantom foul on Bruce in game 4. You all in Dallas are ing re s for thinking Cuban gives a about the integrity of the game.

[bulletedge]

You're right... CUBAN. But if you Spurs fans think the Spurs got bad calls in the series against Dallas- then you admit that bad calls are prevalent in the NBA. So lets step back from mere Mavs-bashing, "Mavs fans are whiners", etc. and try to look at the situation more objectively.

I wonder about an organization- any type of organization- where the membership is not allowed to voice ANY criticism of the organization. Let's see....that was true in Hitler's Germany, Soviet Union during the Cold War, Castro's Cuba, and on & on & on...

Rather than continually trying to muzzle Cuban, I wish that Stern had the balls to allow the players and coaches to comment on the officiating- or anything else to do with the NBA. To ban all even mildly negative commentary is almost to admit the weakness of the organization...or the guilt.

Denial of open and critical dialogue results in unilateral and unchecked authority by the leadership of the organization. Did I just describe a dictatorship?

Rather than exerting all of their energy in suppression of debate and deflection of criticism the NBA would be better served by addressing the issues raised and correcting them. Otherwise, it will eventually die....just like all dictatorships eventually die.

[bulletedge]

Cuban. He masquerades as a voice of reform, but he's just a whiner who complains when all the calls don't go his way. He never said a word about Dirk shooting 24 FT in game 3 or the phantom foul on Bruce in game 4. You all in Dallas are ing re s for thinking Cuban gives a about the integrity of the game.

Frankly, I don't give a what Cuban thinks about anything. But I DO give a about watching quality basketball where the players determine the outcome of the game.

Wouldn't you, as a Spurs fan, have preferred to have the players determine the outcome of the Mavs-Spurs series this year?

[picnroll]

Cuban brags one night on national TV about how he got the rules to be changed so there was no more "Riley ball" and and players like Wade, Lebron and Dirk () could take it to the hole without being roughed up. Then the next night he's ing about too many cheap fouls on a guy taking it to the hole.

[ShackO]

Mike Mathis (former NBA ref) was on radio the other day and he said it was "scary" how correct Cuban was about the poor state of affairs that NBA officiating is (a lot of the details). He said Cuban's stats, etc. that he's been bringing to the league are right on. I think the league wants to and is trying to make things better but they would just prefer Cuban not contiually calling them out on stuff in public. Hey, if Cuban doesn't care about what people think about him (it's obvious that he doesn't) then I'm totally on board with him ranting and raving to get something done about the officiating. All he's really asking for is some more accountability (refs) just like what's expected of any other employee of a corporation. Plus, more training for these refs. Mike Mathis says the league still uses the "buddy system" when hiring some of these refs. A lot of qualified refs are getting passed up cuz someone "knows someone" in the right place.

You know were to get a transcript of it??? A link??

thnx

[ShackO]

Funny how very few Mavs fans were complaining about the refs after game one of the Spurs series. Mostly they were just telling everyone to stop whining and occassionally complaining about the lack of fairness and conistency in disqualifying players like Terry by the league office. Somehow after the Miami series poor reffing has become a major issue. Any ideas why that is?

I donna know......... Why not ask the mav fans???

[bulletedge]

Cuban brags one night on national TV about how he got the rules to be changed so there was no more "Riley ball" and and players like Wade, Lebron and Dirk () could take it to the hole without being roughed up. Then the next night he's ing about too many cheap fouls on a guy taking it to the hole.

All together now..." CUBAN, CUBAN, CUBAN".

Ok...forgetting our shared hatred of Cuban for a moment (or at least one thread)...can we share our thoughts on the state of NBA officiating?

CUBAN, CUBAN, CUBAN...there's a few more for good measure.

[picnroll]

Exactly how are you going to improve the " the state of NBA officiating". You have Wade getting fouled at least three times going to the basket, twice by Harris and once by Dirk, and yet you still have Mavs fans screaming with indignation that the refs gave it to him. One example but every teams fans can lay claim to the same indignation. The only way to improve "the state of NBA officiating" is to find a way where every fan's team wins every game.

[bulletedge]

Exactly how are you going to improve the " the state of NBA officiating". You have Wade getting fouled at least three times going to the basket, twice by Harris and once by Dirk, and yet you still have Mavs fans screaming with indignation that the refs gave it to him. One example but every teams fans can lay claim to the same indignation. The only way to improve "the state of NBA officiating" is to find a way where every fan's team wins every game.

I disagree with your solution. I saw many bad calls in the Spurs-Mavs series. Yep, they protected Dirk (and Timmy). My feeling is that these calls are wrong- regardless of which team you are pulling for.

In my opinion, ridiculous calls in favor of stars (or against rookies or lesser players) only weaken the integrity of the game. Allowing ANYBODY in the league to take two or three steps on their way to the hoop (Dirk Nash, Wade, LeBron, Parker...the list is endless) is another way the rules are cheapened.

I think that the way to improve the game would be to improve the officating to the extent that (human error aside) we would not be sitting here weeks after the Spurs-Mavs series reading post after post of how the refs called it in favor of Dallas.

Perhaps NBA officiating cannot be improved. I disagree. And I think that anyone who has watched any quan y of NBA games (regardless of the teams involved) would agree that calls are shaded in favor of stars at the expense of diluting the integrity of the rule book. I'd like to see that change.

[ShackO]

I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

I am not going to argue your opinion but I think the NFL goes the extra step, @ lest now days to try and get the correct call…..

In the NBA there is not even an option to change the call in the vast majority or cir stances…. Although they can review the tape to invoke a suspension ……

In the NFL if someone is a Star, all-star, superstar or what have you do they get a half step before the snap?? Is it still “grabbing the face mask” if they used only four fingers??

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….

[bulletedge]

Hmmmm...I wonder what would happen if each coach could challenge one call per half to be reviewed via instant replay ala the NFL.

It might serve to keep the refs a little more honest...not to mention help to alleviate the human error factor on calls late in games, i.e. to help make sure that the "right" call was made.

[ShackO]

That might help but the complaint there is that it slows down the game.......

I guess all those commercial timeouts don't do that....

[bulletedge]

That might help but the complaint there is that it slows down the game.......

I guess all those commercial timeouts don't do that....

I'd gladly trade a few more minutes of my time for more correct calls. And they already use replay to determine if a shot beat the buzzer and to determine the correct amount of time that should be on the clock at the end of games.

Of course, Stern and the refs would their pants if they were faced with the prospect of replay review of calls. It would make it much tougher to shade the calls in favor of the stars...especially at the end of a game. That's why it will never happen.

[ShackO]

I disagree with your solution. I saw many bad calls in the Spurs-Mavs series. Yep, they protected Dirk (and Timmy). My feeling is that these calls are wrong- regardless of which team you are pulling for.

In my opinion, ridiculous calls in favor of stars (or against rookies or lesser players) only weaken the integrity of the game. Allowing ANYBODY in the league to take two or three steps on their way to the hoop (Dirk Nash, Wade, LeBron, Parker...the list is endless) is another way the rules are cheapened.

I think that the way to improve the game would be to improve the officating to the extent that (human error aside) we would not be sitting here weeks after the Spurs-Mavs series reading post after post of how the refs called it in favor of Dallas.

Perhaps NBA officiating cannot be improved. I disagree. And I think that anyone who has watched any quan y of NBA games (regardless of the teams involved) would agree that calls are shaded in favor of stars at the expense of diluting the integrity of the rule book. I'd like to see that change.

Some good points there but you assume they want to “improve it”…………

Have you or anyone considered that in their opinion there is nothing to fix……..

This is EXACTLY what they want………. And they want us to just STFU about it already…..

[picnroll]

Hmmmm...I wonder what would happen if each coach could challenge one call per half to be reviewed via instant replay ala the NFL.

It might serve to keep the refs a little more honest...not to mention help to alleviate the human error factor on calls late in games, i.e. to help make sure that the "right" call was made.

How's that going to change much. We've seen umpteen still shots and videos of controversial plays and people still argue and claim fix depending on who their team is. Likely it'll add as much or more controversy to rulings.

Unlike football basketball plays are more complexand subjective. It's often not just a question of was his foot out of bunds, did he cross the goal line, did his knee touch the ground before he dropped the ball?

[ShackO]

. It would make it much tougher to shade the calls in favor of the stars...especially at the end of a game. That's why it will never happen.

LOL................... EXACTLY....

I guess in this case we can not accuse the nba’s pimp david fuxing stern of being a liar…..

As far as I know he has never came out and said they are not biased or showing preferential treatment..

[bulletedge]

How's that going to change much. We've seen umpteen still shots and videos of controversial plays and people still argue and claim fix depending on who their team is. Likely it'll add as much or more controversy to rulings.

Unlike football basketball plays are more complexand subjective. It's often not just a question of was his foot out of bunds, did he cross the goal line, did his knee touch the ground before he dropped the ball?

I agree that basketball is much more subjective than football.

But in many cases it would be easy enough to determine if there was absolutely NO contact on a shooting foul- I mean absolutely positive proof that there was NO CONTACT...body or otherwise. Or if a player took an extra step going to the hoop. Was the player set or still moving (or outside the arc) on offensive foul calls. Did he step out of bounds? Was his foot on the three point line? Etc., etc. etc.

I KNOW this will never happen- at least not in my lifetime. But I would much rather look at the replays and at least attempt to determine the correct call DURING the game than to engage in endless debate long after the game is over.

I mean, why bother to review shots at the end of a period to see if they beat the clock? Let's just go with whatever the crack NBA refs call...

[miss paxton]

I wonder about an organization- any type of organization- where the membership is not allowed to voice ANY criticism of the organization. Let's see....that was true in Hitler's Germany, Soviet Union during the Cold War, Castro's Cuba, and on & on & on...

The difference, of course, being that the NBA is not a system of government.

While I do agree the officiating is often bad and inconsistent, I'm not sure the solution is to just let the players, coaches and owners comment unchecked. Cuban, like everyone else, has his agenda. Everybody sees unfairness from his or her own perspective. It maddens me that I see no difference between the argument that the officials decided the games in the Finals and the argument that the officials decided the games in the WCSF, yet suddenly all we hear about is the unfairness in Finals officiating. In both cases I wanted the players deciding the games. But of course, the team that loses is always going to think (and sometimes, they're going to be right) that bad officiating cost them.

Replays are also a problem, for the reasons picnroll pointed out. Taking the Wade FTs in Game 5--was there a foul? Was there "enough" of a foul to justify calling it at that point in the game? I never thought the issue was as much whether Wade actually got fouled, but whether the officials should have called it at that point in the game.

[StylisticS]

I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

sorry but the NBA officiating is much worse than the NFL. Not alot of emphasis on star treatment in that league. You have your calls and your games, but not as bad as the NBA.

[StylisticS]

I am not going to argue your opinion but I think the NFL goes the extra step, @ lest now days to try and get the correct call…..

In the NBA there is not even an option to change the call in the vast majority or cir stances…. Although they can review the tape to invoke a suspension ……

In the NFL if someone is a Star, all-star, superstar or what have you do they get a half step before the snap?? Is it still “grabbing the face mask” if they used only four fingers??

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….

100% agreed. I asked this question to many people that does any league make such an emphasis to star treatment more than the NBA. All of the answers are no. The NBA caters to the stars more than all the other major professional leagues.

[trueD]

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….

Good point of course, but how to "fix" the oh-so-humanness of the individual referee? It ain't gonna happen. Players must take responsibility to avoid too much controversy with the refs (commonly referred to as whining) and understand more clearly the personal bias of each ref so they can try and conform in some way. Isn't that how the world goes round and round?

Picking battles, ie., complaining much less (but complain, oh yes) about blatantly bad calls --not every friggin call--seems to get the respect of the human ref much more than constant whining.

What about this: attempting to attract the foul under the basket as opposed to making a legitimate play. If I were a ref these players would see my back hand often, but I digress.

In short, the refs are in charge, players need to deal with it. However, the league needs more Mark Cuban's to fight the good fight against poor officiating. Mark Cuban is just the wrong guy. Is the ref more likely to listen to, say Gary Payton as opposed to Ray Allen (or someone else with considerable respectability)? Ray Allen is more likely to get the next call than is Gary Payton (constant flapping jaw). Just human nature.

Since refs are small little Stern's, give them their due as being in charge and treat them respectfully on the court. THEN complain.