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FWD said "Popsucker" I'm just in shock...
If I've read many of the recent posts around here correctly, I must deduce that Marc Stein is a total Popsucker who has consumed a great deal of the Front Office Kool-Aid:
Stein Chat
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 07-24-2006 at 03:29 PM. Reason: poor comma use
How do you "make a player" out of a guy who is 30-years-old?
I do agree with him that Butler > Nazr ... especially considering contracts.
i.e. one out of the two... I guess the verdict is in. BUTLER.
Marc was being conservative about what he wrote... my guess is that he thinks we will be able to to make Elson better as well.
Next thing you know...
Solid D's going to begin cursing and using bad grammar.
Manny's going to proclaim his love for everybody.
Time will tell. I am one who agrees that the Spurs have made some excellent moves and that right now...have a very good chance to be a better team than last year...and that is saying something. Probably not a better record but a much farther trip in the playoffs.
elson is good trade bait next year
Spurs seemed to do it with Bruce Bowen.How do you "make a player" out of a guy who is 30-years-old?
That doesn't count.
Bowen was already a damn good defender in Miami and averaging 8 ppg (same as he does with the Spurs). He's certainly added to his game in San Antonio, but the Spurs didn't make him.
Anyway, I don't know any bigmen that have gone from mediocre players to very good players after the age of 30. Maybe Elson will be the first but I doubt it.
If he just doesn't miss his defensive rotations and can improve his hands somehow, he should be fine for 15 mpg.
He made himself a house-hold name here though.
Who knew who Bruce Bowen was in Miami? The average NBA fan doesn't really know who Francisco Elson is either. Hopefully he gets under people's skin like Bruce.
Why not?
Why would you expect him to get under people's skin when he's not known for defense?
I think Elson will be fine, but people should just accept him for what he is. A big guy who can run and shoot jumpshots. If he just does the basics on D, he'll be okay.
I think your selling the Spurs short there Kori.He's certainly added to his game in San Antonio, bu the Spurs didn't make him.
Sure Bowen busted his ass and improved, but the Spurs had a hand in it I'm sure.
Well I don't think were looking for VERY good. Were just looking for solid to good.Anyway, I don't know any bigmen that have gone from mediocre players to very good players after the age of 30
Don't F up, hustle, rebound, block a shot or two.
Pretty much be a 7 foot Malik Rose.
Wich is what Nuggets fans have told me, they think he is, and can be for the Spurs.
On D, like I said, all hes gotta do is use his head, and play hard.A big guy who can run and shoot jumpshots. If he just does the basics on D, he'll be okay.
If I was pop, on day 1, I would show film of Malik Rose in 2003 and say COPY HIM!
Thats it.
I'm just saying you are looking for the wrong things from him. He's not a good rebounder or shot blocker. He's not someone who likes to bang like Malik. Look at him as a center who can run the floor with the running teams. He's not a plodder like Rasho, so he can stay in the game when teams want to run. He runs really well and knocks down midrange jumpers.
Might be interesting against Dallas to have him and Bonner in the game together when Duncan is catching a blow.
Bowen was a 2nd team All-NBA defender the season before he joined the Spurs. For their purposes, the Spurs didn't have to "make a player out of him." He was already the player that they wanted him to be when they acquired him. And with the exception of his overall FG% and, to a lesser extent, his 3pt%, Bruce's numbers today are quite similar to the numbers he was putting up in Miami.
I don't think anyone can make a realistic argument that Bowen was a player that the Spurs made -- he might be a player that the Spurs revealed.
I'm with Kori in thinking that expectations for Elson should be very low and that success with Elson should be measured in terms of intanglible things. The phrase of the year is that it "is what it is" -- well, Elson at this point is what he is. It would be unrealistic IMO to think that he'll ever become a major league rebounder or shot blocker or defensive stopper. I hope Spurs fans who are prone to fits of irrational exuberance and create unrealistic expectations will understand those truths.
With that said, my point in posting Stein's comment was more about the fact that it's realistic to hope that the Spurs will get something approximating the contributions that Nazr and Rasho made from the combination of players who are now available to play alongside Timmy on a night-in-night-out basis. It's just that those guys should be able to provide that production at less than half the price. I think that's a good thing and makes the offseason, to this point, no worse than a push with last season.
I think the Spurs are actually marginally better, but I'm prone to irrational exuberance.
not to brag, but i knew who bowen was when he was in miami. people that followed the NBA somewhat closely had heard of him. miami was a pretty good team then, an eastern conference contender at least.
That should be very interesting:
+Elson
+Bonner
+Bowen
+Manu
+TP
You have some guys that can run the floor, play up tempo, can defend, can make some plays. Well Bonner can't defend, but still...he can run the floor and sit in a corner and pop 3's all night long.
Not to rain on your parade there, leemajors, but I think many who followed the Spurs closely after the 2001 playoff debacle pointed to Bruce Bowen as "the target" of the 2001 offseason because of the possibility that he might be able to offer the Spurs some meaningful ability to defend Kobe Bryant. And that thought had developed over the course of the preceding season, really, when Bowen had shown himself to be an elite defender even if a relatively unknown quan y to the masses.
I'll be honest, I didn't know who he was.
In fact when I heard he would be the guy to help D up on Kobe I laughed. Thinking who can D up on Kobe? Boy was I wrong. Bless the Spurs FO.
I guess playing next to TD does not help him at all. Yeah right! TD opens up so many shots for the other players.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the pickup of Butler and his potential.
Where most of the Pop critics are coming from is the same place they were the day after our season ended - we need more youth, athleticism, and length on the perimeter.
Dirk didn't kill us in the Dallas series, it was Howard and Terry alternating. We still have exactly zero players to even think about matching up with Howard. That's where a J.R. Smith, Qyntel Woods, or Trevor Ariza would have come in nice.
Instead, in the prime of Tim Duncan's career, we've put our eggs in the Rich Melzer basket. :/
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