Why are Suns so underrated?

[The_Game]

They are on the level of the spurs and mavs but no one is giving them a shot to go all the way

they took the mavs to 6 games last year without amare and Kurt Thomas plus had Bell miss some games in that series. Now they have everyone back yet people still think they aren't as good as Dallas?

don't understand It. Their defence has improved as the season has gone on as well.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't think they are underrated. I think until they prove they can rebound at a high level of success on the defensive boards, consistantly challenge and contest shots in the lane and routinely get into the lane themselves, that they are exactly where they should be.

I think they can do all this, but much depends on how 'Antoni chooses to matchup against the elite level teams. If he chooses to go small, they likely get into the lane at a better clip on offense and shyould win a few games and may compete in others, but chances are better they lose a 7-game series rather than win. If he goes bigger, they probably defend and rebound better, but with defenses packed in, settle for jumpers on offense.

Until a happy and successful medium is found, they will always be a team that could beat the Spurs or Mavs, but rarely, if ever, do.

[TDMVPDPOY]

overrated to the max, and yes there is no sugar

[JMarkJohns]

overrated to the max, and yes there is no sugar

With you, everything is hyperbole.

They are heardly overrated, but they shouldn't be, as of now, rated any higher than 3rd in the West. This until the consistantly challenge, then beat teams like San Antonio, Dallas and Utah. Bigger teams that they'll have to go to ward against in the paint. Until they prove they can hold their ground, they can't prove they should be rated any higher.

Not going to say it's not your right as a fan, but with you, it's San Antonio or nothing at all. That's great, but if that's all you have, then don't expect your posts to hold much weight.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs fear nobody, only b2bs

[SirChaz]

Who is underrating the Suns?

It really doesn't matter who rates what in Nov/Dec.

Suns got off to a slow start but they are starting to figure it out. Nobody, even the Suns, know how good they will be come May and until they win the le they will have to prove themselves every day.

[Axl Van Dam]

Because they can't play defense even if their lives depended on it.

[JMarkJohns]

spurs fear nobody, only b2bs

Not saying you should. You're a great team who should win it all every year in my opinion. This isn't really possible, but I think that highly of your team and their chances.

Still, you as a post always have the Spurs way up here...

and then every other team/player...



















































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Way down here.

That simply is not the case. There are teams capable of beating the Spurs and teams, that if they pull their head out their own ass or gain some experience, could in the near future.

You simply never give other very good teams/players credit for being such, thus when you say something with regards to the like, I know I always take it as just another homer post, simply because of you rep.


BTW, you b2b comment was freakin' hilarious!

[johngateswhiteley]

They are on the level of the spurs and mavs but no one is giving them a shot to go all the way

they took the mavs to 6 games last year without amare and Kurt Thomas plus had Bell miss some games in that series. Now they have everyone back yet people still think they aren't as good as Dallas?

don't understand It. Their defence has improved as the season has gone on as well.

backwards my friend. the correct question is, why are they so overrated?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

don't understand It. Their defence has improved as the season has gone on as well.

I guess spelling is overrated to you.

[JMarkJohns]

backwards my friend. the correct question is, why are they so overrated?

Must be their proximity to the University of Southern California

Show me where this current team is rated higher than third-best in the West. You do that and I'll aknowledge them to be slightly overrated. Until then, they can't be overrated when they are rated exactly where their standings and potential speaks to.

, they aren't even being bantered about as a likely for the le right now. That could change, but I think most media types acknowledge they'll have to up their defense and rebounding and until then, then are just a great offensive team capable of winning any given night, but not any given series.

[mavsfan1000]

Being overrated means saying they are at the level of San Antonio and Dallas. They don't rebound or defend well enough to beat either Dallas and San Antonio in this years playoffs.

[JMarkJohns]

Being overrated means saying they are at the level of San Antonio and Dallas. They don't rebound or defend well enough to beat either Dallas and San Antonio in this years playoffs.

Fine. Show me where someone says they will beat the Spurs or Mavericks, not just says they can if they improve their defense and rebounding.

People throw words and phrases around without ever giving an informed though to how it really is or what it really implies.

Suns are not overrated. They are currently rated as third or fourth best in the West, or essentually what they've proven the last few years.

The very high they possibly could be rated is 2nd, behind just the Spurs. Even that can be supported as the Mavs last season never beat the Suns with a healthy and incorperated Amare. The early season matchup this year doesn't mean near as much as the late season meeting will. If Mavs take them, then I'll give that the Mavs are better. Until then, I see San Antonio atop with Dallas and a close-behind Phoenix team challenging if certain thinsg improve/break right.

[mavsfan1000]

Dallas beat San Antonio last year and are much younger than San Antonio. Amare isn't going to be 100% and you assuming he will is wrong. Nash is getting older as well and it will effect the whole team since Nash is the catalyst. He would have to play MVP level to beat the mavs like he did 2 years ago. I doubt he does that again. Last years playoffs is probably what we will see out of Nash.

[JMarkJohns]

Dallas beat San Antonio last year and are much younger than San Antonio. Amare isn't going to be 100% and you assuming he will is wrong. Nash is getting older as well and it will effect the whole team since Nash is the catalyst. He would have to play MVP level to beat the mavs like he did 2 years ago. I doubt he does that again. Last years playoffs is probably what we will see out of Nash.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect!!!

Too many assupmtion within the text for me to pretend it's any more than whim at this point in the season. Like I said, almost as much broke the Mavs way last year in the playoffs as what went against the teams they played.

I have as much right to say this Phoenix team isn't the team you beat in the playoffs last year as you have to say the Mavs will catch all the same breaks again.

The way I see it, there's one GREAT team and that's San Antonio. They are followed, in order, by some very good teams in Dallas, Phoenix, Utah and some good teams that could/should be better in the Nuggets, Rockets and the Clippers.

You choose to dispute, then fine, but you're running around in circles with me. I acknowledged the Suns flaws in my first post in this thread. I'm not debating their stature among the elite. They are, likely, 3rd at best right now and unless some big changes are made to defense and rebounding, they will likely stay that way, if not regress.

What I'm saying beyond this is that nowhere are they rated higher than third best in the Conference, and with recent history explaining they are roughly that quality a team, that hence they are rated exactly where they should be and therefore are not overrated at all.

Got it? No... GOOD LORD!

[mavsfan1000]

What I don't get is you are saying San Antonio is clearly the best team. If that was the case than San Antonio would've beaten Dallas last year. Also Dallas got deeper this off season. Devin Harris is taking his game to the next level and will be instrumental on defending Nash. Something Terry couldn't do. Glad you are saying Phoenix is 3rd best but comparing the Dallas of now to 2 seasons ago there is a big difference.

[JMarkJohns]

'kay...

I like ya as a post, but you're literally doing the same thing for which you errantly accuse me of. You say this Mavs team isn't the team from two year's back while saying that this Suns team won't be any better than last year's despite getting Kurt Thomas and Raja Bell back from minor injuries and Amare back from a huge one.

BTW, your assurtion that Amare isn't coming 100% back is only partially true. He'll never be the athlete, but, he's far more versed in fundamentals now than he was prior. He actually boxes out for rebounds and bodies up on defense.

By season's end, this Amare could have as big an impact on the game as the old did, just in a different way.

Also, you're implying that since your Mavs beat last year's Spurs, that they will beat, or at least compete equally, with this year's Spurs.

So, twice now you made assumptions about this year's NBA based on past year's teams when both teams with which assumptions were made are VERY, VERY different than last year's, each with a VERY, VERY high ceiling if certain goals are met/learned. All thw while, your Mavs are very much the same. Perhaps a little deeper, but I just don't see the margin of improvement the way I see San Antonio or Phoenix. You are what you are. Now, before 15-game assumptions are made, let's wait and see what San Antonio and Phoenix develop into before we start errantly proclaiming they are overrated.

Lots of basketball left to be played... and learned. Remember, last year's Suns started off slowly before making the Conference Finals without their starting frontcourt. Right now means little compared to around the All-Star break.

[JMarkJohns]

But hey, you could be right, I could be wrong. So, until either is proven such...

[mavsfan1000]

You lost Tim Thomas though which really spread the court out well and forced Diop to guard a quicker player in Diaw or go outside for the 3's. That was the biggest matchup nightmare for Dallas last year. Of Amare is better but Dallas's bigs can stay in the paint instead of having to go outside for a Tim Thomas 3. Yeah I assume a lot but I go with what makes the most sense. Diop will also be of help against Amare. Than comes Mbenga. Should be a great series if Amare makes it without any setbacks.

[JMarkJohns]

Diop will be in foul trouble within five minutes of trying to guard Amare. Amare is still a top level athlete. Just no longer arguably the best ever to play that position. He can still run circles and jump past the vast majority of defenders in this league. Not to the tune of 30 per, but easily 20+. Throw in his improved boards and willingness to body up on defense and he'll have much more of an impact than you give him credit for.

[mavsfan1000]

I think Diop has the speed needed to give Amare problems and he's not expected to play a lot of minutes. Probably 20 minutes so he's got 6 fouls since Dampier is the starter. Dallas even has a 3rd guy called Mbenga so Amare's not going to have any easy baskets or not often.

[JMarkJohns]

Maybe not against the greatest compe ion, but against Yao and Randolph (among others, including a Diop-type of athlete in Gadzuric) within the last four games, Amare has averaged 22.3 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 2.3 bpg, 1.5 spg on over 60% shooting while getting to the line 8-times per night and making them at a over 75% clip.

I'll take that for the remainder of his career... and that's before regaining his jumper and touch around the basket.

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah Yao and Randolph are offensive minded players. Amare scoring big against more defensive minded centers would impress me. Also Phoenix's scoring but it all comes down to defense and it is worthless scoring on one side just to give back up. Dallas should dominate the boards since they are one of the best at it.

[JMarkJohns]

Yao's a tough matchup for anyone defensively. Again, you're passing off Dallas or its players as better than they really are. Diop better than Yao defensively? I'm not buying that. Diop is tough because he's got length and athleticism. Basically the same thing Gadzuric has. In fact, Gadz is a much better overall athlete, he just lacks some of the girth of Diop. Still, Amare dominated him.

Look. Dallas is very and could be there at the end of the season. Same as San Antonio. Same as Phoenix. , same as maybe even Utah or the like...

Roughly 65 games yet to play to decide which team improves enough to come out of the west. I believe Dallas is as good as it ever will be, despite youth like Harris and Howard. I believe Josh has hit his ceiling and that Harris is unlikely to hit his until Terry and Johnson are gone or played much, much less. If Johnson is played much less this year, then your team loses invaluable defense and savvy.

Meanwhile, Phoenix has a twice Conference Championship-calibur team that's just getting used to each other. Give 'em some time. For me, if they can improve just their rebounding, they'll compete night in, night out with the likes of Dallas and maybe even San Antonio.

I still think San Antonio is the team to beat, because they are already arguably the best team in the NBA and haven't even figured out their rotation and their big men's roles. Once they do, their defense should be stifling and their rebounding tops in the League.

[RonMexico]

Yao's a tough matchup for anyone defensively. Again, you're passing off Dallas or its players as better than they really are. Diop better than Yao defensively? I'm not buying that. Diop is tough because he's got length and athleticism. Basically the same thing Gadzuric has. In fact, Gadz is a much better overall athlete, he just lacks some of the girth of Diop. Still, Amare dominated him.

Look. Dallas is very and could be there at the end of the season. Same as San Antonio. Same as Phoenix. , same as maybe even Utah or the like...

Roughly 65 games yet to play to decide which team improves enough to come out of the west. I believe Dallas is as good as it ever will be, despite youth like Harris and Howard. I believe Josh has hit his ceiling and that Harris is unlikely to hit his until Terry and Johnson are gone or played much, much less. If Johnson is played much less this year, then your team loses invaluable defense and savvy.

Meanwhile, Phoenix has a twice Conference Championship-calibur team that's just getting used to each other. Give 'em some time. For me, if they can improve just their rebounding, they'll compete night in, night out with the likes of Dallas and maybe even San Antonio.

I still think San Antonio is the team to beat, because they are already arguably the best team in the NBA and haven't even figured out their rotation and their big men's roles. Once they do, their defense should be stifling and their rebounding tops in the League.

JMark, thanks for having the patience and energy to put up with these short-sighted, blind Mavs fans who overrate their team based on a 12-game winning streak. Not only did every break go Dallas' way in terms of injury last year, but they got received the benefit of generous officiating on moving screens and Dirk/Harris flopping (the same type of treatment they screamed bloody murder about when D-Wade started getting it).

I just don't know if I have it left in me to prove to somebody that 20-10 for this new, more grounded Amare is even more dangerous than the Amare of the past because he can pass, can avoid costly fouls and offensive rebounds by actually boxing out, and the more Diaw thins up and gets back in the flow of things, the more dangerous they become as a two-some. Dampier won't guard just Amare when Kurt Thomas is in, just like Amare can take Diop out of the lane if he starts knocking down the midrange jumper... does that mean Dampier will be able to keep up with Diaw? Mbenga is not a threat and never has been - he's big, but he's basically a more fit Pat Burke with little basketball knowledge and skill to his credit.