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You seem to be going by a couple of games.
Dallas lost Sunday but did not hurt its defensive "reputation" by giving up 101 points. The Lakers needed 71 shots and hit 54.9 percent.
The Suns likely will continue to get panned defensively on this thread and across the nation because the Warriors scored 105 and nobody will notice the fact that they took 85 shots (43.5 percent) and still had 25 turnovers.
Those 25 turnovers were the most GS had all season and were not just unforced errors, but the results of the Suns' active defense. No matter what happens, though, Mavs fans will not rip apart their own defense for giving up 101 pts to the Lakers, despite endless ridicule about the Suns giving up 101 to the Mavs. I just want to change the standard Mavs fan response from: "but the Suns are giving up so many points" to something a little more valuable. But that will never happen unless some idiot ESPN writer knocks the Mavs' D first.
You seem to be going by a couple of games.
... I'm only following in your collective footsteps, if that's the case.
I still disagree, because I've been applauding the Suns' defense for over 3 weeks now, including the game against Dallas (even though I admitted they had dumb mistakes down the stretch on both ends of the floor to lose that one).
If you need more evidence, then we'll put it on a couple week watch to see how my theories hold up.
Let's do that and see how things go.
Suns
PPG: 110.78
OPP: 102.78
Diff: +8.00
Off. Efficiency: 1st in NBA
Def. Efficiency: 8th in NBA
Mavs:
PPG: 98.51
OPP: 91.94
Diff: +6.57
Off. Efficiency: 5th in NBA
Def. Efficiency: 6th in NBA
The Suns started the year with a terrible defensive efficiency rank, and have been slowly creeping up all season. So the difference between Dallas and Phoenix on defense is two spots, 6th and 8th respectively. We'll check back at the end of January and see where these two teams are.
well, you started the thread, not us...all i have to say is, 0-5 against the spurs, mavs, jazz
I've been saying for a while that the Suns are the best team in the NBA. The Mavs fans and Spurs fans keep acting like its between their two teams, but they are fools.
All I have to say is that you have been blown out by a few teams and have lost to both the Spurs and Jazz also.
Loss to Spurs 97-91
Loss to Rockets 107-76.....blowout
Loss to Warriors 107-104
Loss to Clippers 103-85.....blowout
Loss to Wizards 106-96.....semi-blowout
Loss to Pistons 92-82.....semi-blowout
Loss to Jazz 101-79.....blowout
Loss to Lakers 101-98
In all eight Suns losses we were never blown out.
Well you are wrong. The suns are the second best team, spurs the third best team, and the lakers 4th best.
Yeah, I'm not really seeing how the Suns can be considered the better team right now when they haven't gotten a win against the other 3 top teams in the West.
exactly. they are just beating up on the bad teams to pad their stats and make it look like they are better than us. the W's and L's are the only indicator.
The Mavs held a better team to fewer points. Phoenix absolutely can win a le playing the way they do, but right now I think Dallas is a hair better. Doesn't matter until they meet in May.
Dallas is better defensively, but Phoenix just has way too much firepower for the Mavs to keep up with.
And they have Nash.
Having Nash is fine if you want to win a game in February. Having Nash in late May is another story. He needs to be limited to 35 minutes a game to have enough left in the later rounds of the playoffs. The biggest boost the Suns got from getting Amare back is another guy for their rotation. They had to play Dallas with basically 6 guys last year.
When it comes to Dallas and Phoenix in the playoffs, Dallas is better at forcing a slower pace and getting stops in the fourth quarter. Dallas has become San Antonio and Phoenix has become Dallas.
Why do you keep harping on this? Last year the Heat were
0-2 vs Phoenix
0-2 vs Spurs
0-2 vs Mavs
1-3 vs Nets
1-3 vs Pistons
They still managed to win the le granted the Mavs choked but still.
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Last edited by Amare_32; 09-01-2011 at 02:27 PM.
How original.
Any more cliches?
Nevermind...if you think that Dallas ever had an inside presence like Amare Stoudemire, then your posts aren't even worth reading.
Amare is more than just one more guy in the rotation. That is as dumb as saying Wade is just part of the Heat's rotation.
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Last edited by Amare_32; 09-01-2011 at 02:27 PM.
funny how yall constantly talk about the Mavs, considering the Suns havent gotten any farther than the Mavs recently. 1 year, the Suns beat the Mavs, then got owned by the Spurs. then last year, the Mavs beat the Suns, and got to the finals, but unfortunately lost. and now this year, the Mavs are clearly the better team so far. you guys are total ing morons. wait until the playoffs to talk .
I said this before in another Suns thread, but the reason I can't see the Suns winning the le with their current roster and style is because of one stat: rebounding differential. Here's the NBA team rankings on RebDiff from NBA.com
1 Utah +5.94
2 New York +5.13
3 Cleveland +4.45
4 Houston +4.26
5 Dallas +3.85
6 Orlando +3.71
7 San Antonio +1.48
8 New Jersey +1.45
9 Denver +1.41
10 Chicago +1.32
11 Detroit +1.32
12 L.A. Clippers +1.20
13 NO/Okla. City +1.00
14 Portland +0.62
15 L.A. Lakers +0.44
16 Minnesota +0.15
17 Miami -0.33
18 Boston -0.84
19 Indiana -1.05
20 Sacramento -1.35
21 Charlotte -2.25
22 Atlanta -2.42
23 Washington -2.69
24 Seattle -3.19
25 Phoenix -3.27
26 Memphis -3.62
27 Philadelphia -3.72
28 Toronto -3.88
29 Milwaukee -4.03
30 Golden State -5.52
The correlation between +RebDiff and Wins has to be pretty strong. Of course, 2 teams really jump out at you in that list: the Knicks are 2nd and the Suns are 25th. I won't touch NY since this is a Suns thread. As for Phx, I think they were -2 when I checked a couple of weeks ago, and now they're -3.3. How can they win 4 seven game series while giving up more boards than they get? They would have to stay very hot for a very long time for that to happen, maybe even hotter than any postseason team has been before. As I wondered in the other thread, has any team ever won the le with a negative rebounding differential? I wouldn't think so.
I agree with Brad that rebounding is our team's greatest weakness. I've been saying for awhile that the Suns need to pick up a strong rebounder soon. I'd love to have David Lee, but I'm afraid that acquiring him is nothing more than a pipe dream.
The Suns' rebounding has gone down primarily because Shawn Marion has been guarding a lot of point guards and shooting guards. As a result, he's forced to defend on the perimeter, rather than in the paint, where he'd be in a better position to grab rebounds.
I agree with your point, but I want to make a slight modification: Defensive rebounding is their greatest weakness. I like to think that the Suns can maintain a 48%+ FG in the playoffs as they have in the regular season through 33 games. Only a handful of those top rebounding teams have high shooting percentages and 2 of them in particular (Utah and SA) are traditionally good rebounding teams. There isn't a direct correlation, but I see a pattern of teams with positive RebDiff not having the highest shooting percentage, which can lead to a few extra rebounds. The Suns are still losing the rebounding battle by 3-4 boards per game even in blowouts, so I'm only concerned about the close games with good teams.
From one who had the same chip on his shoulder last season in regards to the Mav's D getting no respect...you need to just forget about it. Assuming you're correct about the much improved Sun's D, they'll get their respect once the nation (and Mav fans) get to see it in the playoffs. Trust me, it will be a lot easier on you if you don't worry about it right now.
'Suns' and 'defense' don't belong in the same sentence. The Suns idea of defense is letting the other team get into a trackmeet with them and blindly jack up shots to try to keep up. The 0-5 against the top teams in the West is quite damning. They're winless against them because these other teams can force the Suns to change their style and have the weapons to take Phoenix out of their game.
The only thing the West has to fear about the Suns when it comes playoff time is if they'll be able to outscore Phoenix. There's no concern about if Phoenix will be able to shut them down.
I'm glad you proved my point... thanks for throwing out the same regurgitated stat of "0-5" as your backup - your ignorance keeps this thread going...
I proved your point that the Suns STILL can't hang with the top teams in the West? Ok, then. I guess we can delete this thread since it has no value whatsoever until Phoenix stops padding the stats against Toronto.
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