In no particular order:
Bill Russell: Invented defense in the NBA.
Nate Thurmond: Dominant shot blocker and rebounder in the age of great centers
Dennis Rodman (when he felt like it) - can defend perimeter and the post equally well. Volume rebounder, but lost the desire to do the dirty work and seeked individual glory at the 2nd half of his career.
Scottie Pippen - One of the best perimeter defenders of all time, if not the best. Curiously never won DPoY. Can shut down anyone from PGs to SFs, and even smaller PFs. Long arms, quick reflex, and amazing lateral quickness.
Gary Payton - Lots of steals, and covers his man like, well, a glove. Quick hands and lateral quickness coupled with his defensive fundamentals make him a virtual wall on the perimeter.
Hakeem Olajuwon - Great help defender, shot blocker, and man to man. Quick and agile.
David Robinson - Similar to Hakeem in many ways, but even quicker. Can cover anyone from SFs to Cs. Long arms, great timing, and his strength allows him to guard the strongest centers (Shaq).
Bruce Bowen - Again, never won DPoY, but his perimeter defensive skills are both controversial and effective. Sticks to his man like glue, and tires him out over the course of a game.
Michael Cooper - The only person who ever effectively guarded Larry Bird 1-1. Never quits.
Dennis Johnson - Underrated defender in many ways where he just hawks the PG and distrupts the opposition's offense from the get go.
Sidney Moncrief - Quick and agile, while strong enough to handle any variety of perimeter players.
Bobby Jones - 8 All-Defensive teams, enough said.
Joe Dumars - Jordan's arch nemisis. Never had any impressive defensive stats, but similar to Bowen but without the controversy.
Ron Artest (when sane) - Strong and quick, as well as crazy. Made his name by cracking Jordan's ribs during a summer pick up game.
Notable exceptions:
Dikembe Mutombo: probably the most overrated defender of all time. He was a great weak-side help shot blocker and rebounder, but his man to man defense is so-so due to his awkward mobility (except on Shawn Kemp, for some reason), but somehow had 4 DPoY.
Ben Wallace: Also has 4 DPoY, but probably deserves only two of them. I would choose Hakeem, Robinson, Russell, Thurmond, Wilt, Wes Unseld, Alonzo Mourning and even Mark Eaton over Ben Wallace on the defensive end (and defensive end alone) over the duration of their careers.
Alvin Robertson: Steals a lot, but gambles on passing lane. Can be exception on man to man due to his combination of speed and strength, but again, gambles way way too much.
John Stockton: All-time steals leader, and possibly one of the dirtiest players of all time, but his lateral quickness is suspect and always seemed to have problems with ultra-quick guards (see Iverson, Tim Hardway).
Shawn Marion - Suns had Parker handing them their asses until they made the adjustment of putting Marion on Parker in Game 2. Parker noticeably disappeared a few games. He defends i would say above average maybe a B+ shot blocking, rebounding, quickness and his long arms effectively stops penetration while playing the passing lanes.
In the History of the NBA.... Are you fukin kidding me?
Let's not forget Michael Jordan before baseball was a beast too...
wheres tim duncan on the list?
shawn marion is a fukn joke, wtf has he ever shut down? he hasnt done jack to warrant to have his name on that list...heck raja bell is even better than him on defense.
i think he does
Agreed.
Otherwise pretty good list by ambchang. I think Duncan is a better defender than Hakeem. And there probably shold be room for Walt Frazier and maybe Satch Sanders.
Also for the overrated list: Mark Eaton. Completely immobile giant who blocked a lot of shots as long as he didn't have to move, but did almost nothing else (including rebounding). Ben Wallace >>>> Mark Eaton.
That's a pretty decent list ambchang. Some other good defenders I can think of:
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
John Havlicek
Walt Frazier
Jerry Sloan
Dave DeBusschiere
Paul Silas
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Buck Williams
Mo Lucas
Lionel Hollins
Derrick McKey
Nate McMillan
AC Green
TR Dunn
Alvin Robertson
Ben Wallace
Michael Jordan
Charles Oakley
Paul Pressey
Ruben Patterson
non of those guys can play with 5fouls like TD can....
Man, I love TD but on what planet is he or DRob for that matter a better defender than Dream?
Every real one.
Duncan makes so few spectacular plays on defense he's even lured Spurs fans into undervaluing him.
Well Big Ben IMO is realy very effective defender. Not only he can guard the post-up players but he is also good on permieter and on the screenrolls, plus he is rely good help defender.
Solid made a good list.
How could you forgot KC?
And btw. Come on TD is one of the best plus he is not slowing down at that end of the floor.
Duncan is one of the best team defenders in the history of the NBA. He's very rarely out of position, rebounds proficiently and is one of the best at keeping block shots in play. He is "just" an above-average man-to-man defender, but his team defense more than makes up for that.
For his size, Robinson was peerless when it came to lateral quickness and flexibility; in a pinch he was a four or five position defender.
The top post defender I've seen is Rodman; and his dirty play was a part of that. Watch some of those old Bulls games with him, he could positively affect the flow of the game with a well-timed defensive play or rebound.
Kevin Mchale?
I'm sorry, but this is so ludicrous that I have to take issue with it. First of all, everybody has problems with ultra-quick guards, even other ultra-quick guards. Secondly, Iverson's rookie season came during Stockton's 12th season in the league. That said, Stockton was a great team defender and one of the better double-teamers I ever saw. Both were due to his tenacity and basketball IQ; if he'd relied on his athletic ability he'd never have made it into the league.
Just for fun, the Defensive Player of the Year list:
http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveplayer.html
Year Player Team
2006-07 Marcus Camby Denver
2005-06 Ben Wallace Detroit
2004-05 Ben Wallace Detroit
2003-04 Ron Artest Indiana
2002-03 Ben Wallace Detroit
2001-02 Ben Wallace Detroit
2000-01 Dikembe Mutombo Philadelphia-Atlanta
1999-00 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1998-99 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1997-98 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1996-97 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1995-96 Gary Payton Seattle
1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo Denver
1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1992-93 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1991-92 David Robinson San Antonio
1990-91 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1989-90 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1988-89 Mark Eaton Utah
1987-88 Michael Jordan Chicago
1986-87 Michael Cooper Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86 Alvin Robertson San Antonio
1984-85 Mark Eaton Utah
1983-84 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee
1982-83 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee
Its gay that Tim's never won a DPOY. He could have it every year, actually. Little respect for one of the few greatest players of all time.
True, but Stockton's legacy as a defender has always been in the realm of the Payton's and the Pippen's, which I felt is overrated.
His IQ and tenacity can never be questioned (actually similar to Bowen in that regard).
Sorry I left Duncan out, but I would say the C's/PFs I listed to be > Duncan on defense.
I would put him in the underrated defender pile, along with Wilt and Kareem.
No particular order:
Bill Russell
Michael Cooper
Bruce Bowen
Sidney Moncrief
Scottie Pippen
Dikembe Mutombo
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Dennis Rodman
Gary Payton
I forget sometimes how good of a defender Payton was, he could guard just about any 1 or 2.
Kareem was pretty good as well
Stockton was the third best defensive guard of his era behind the top two of all time (and shame on anyone for not including Jordan on their list). He had Iverson's ability to grab steals without the liability from having to gamble, because he played great position defense and had great anticipation.
1. Bill Russell - The quickest player off his feet I've ever seen.
2. David Robinson - The fastest and most athletic big I've ever seen. The way he completely shut down the interior in 99 will never be seen again.
3. Hakeem Olajuwon - Dude chased down freaking Kevin Johnson down on a break and swatted his shot, not to mention saving a championship when he blocked Starks' game-winner in the 94 Finals. 'Nuff said.
4. Dennis Rodman (in Detroit) - On the Bad Boys, dude was could rebound, block shots, and move his feet with the best of them. His D was unreal before he came to the Spurs and decided he only wanted to win rebounding les instead of guarding his man.
5. Scottie Pippen - Quick, long, moved his feet well, rebounded, and could guard any position except center.
6. Bruce Bowen - His arrival completely transformed the Spurs defense. The best I've ever seen at staying in front of his man and getting in his opponents' heads.
7. Michael Cooper - The original Pippen, except he was an even better jumper.
Considering the rightmost pic in your sig, I find it ironically hilarious that Duncan isn't in your list.
I would rate Dumars, Payton, Jordan, Cheeks and Cooper above Stockton, but that really depends on how you define his era (he played for a long long long time).
As for Jordan, again, very good defensive player, actually, excellent defensive player, but he always got away with a lot of stuff others will be called for. On top of that, Pippen guarded the best perimeter player every night, Jordan took on the #2, and I can never forget how Magic destroyed Jordan in the 91 finals Game 1, but then got disrupted big time by Pippen in Games 2 to 5. That was a brilliant move by Phil Jackson.
Norm Van Lier was pretty good also playing alongside Jerry Sloan. And where's Bobby Jones? Manu reminded me so much of both Jones and Havlicek when he came in, even his body language was so much like them.
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