The Demonizing of Illegal Immigrants

[nsrammstein]

The great majority of immigrants who enter the United States lawfully qualify for visas because of family ties: They are lucky enough to be related to a US citizen. For them, there is indeed a line -- the waiting time for a family-based visa can take upward of 10 years. A smaller number of legal immigrants are granted visas because they have advanced degrees or specialized skills and a job is waiting for them.

For most illegal immigrants, a legal option simply doesn't exist. Under current law, a young Mexican or Salvadoran who wants to improve his life by moving to America and working hard at a useful job generally has just two options: (a) Enter illegally, or (b) stay out forever. Several hundred thousand a year choose option (a).

The Pat Buchanans, the Lou Dobbses, the conservative talk-show hosts and their riled listeners the illegal entry is all that matters. They don't ask whether it makes sense to bar industrious and productive go-getters who value America as a land of opportunity and who supply labor for which there is a yawning demand. As far as they're concerned, illegal aliens are "immigration criminals," and the only issue on the agenda is how to keep them out.

"Put up a giant fence," demands radio talkmaster Glenn Beck. "You stop the people who are coming here because they're criminals or they want to do us harm."

The demonizing of illegal aliens keeps us from having a rational discussion about US immigration policy.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

it's not just about keeping them out. first of all you don't know who's coming in. this aint a " " situation, this is a non-american situation. people have to start there. these aliens pay no taxes on anything. you're paying for them to be here. i can't remember the city, but a city in pennsylvania has grown more than 50%, but the tax dollars coming remains the same. does this make sense to you. do you feel like paying for someone else's tax because they're illegal? i'm behind on my electric bill. would you kindly get me up to date. i'll be glad to let you know my account info. the last time i checked illegal meant illegal. let the flames commence.

[CubanMustGo]

Politics forum. Use it.

[spursfan09]

Immigrants do the work that Americans themselves wouldn't want to do. Plus they would do the work for cheaper than Americans would want.

[Fillmoe]

Do any of you do drywall?

[nsrammstein]

Do any of you do drywall?

What is that?

[T Park]

theres no demonizing.

Its fact.

They are entering ILLEGALY.

AGAINST THE LAW.


Its not that hard to friggen understand.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah until TFat uses mexicans in the company he owns that he built from the ground up.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you know whats wrong about those entering illegally?

when are caught and ppl processing there do ents and find that they have a valid situation that grants them a green pass compared to some clown doing it legally waiting for his papers to be process in a couple of years.

money talks

[v2freak]

Immigration presents an opportunity cost. People are constantly complaining that foreigners are taking away Americans' jobs and I believe this to be true.

spursfan09 - You said "Immigrants do the work that Americans themselves wouldn't want to do. Plus they would do the work for cheaper than Americans would want." Are you telling me that in this gigantic country with a hefty population, you can't find people that will want to do those jobs? I know quite a few people who would do what white collar workers would consider "degrading" because it is a job, it is money and it does pay the bills. Heck, the thread starter picked a good forum to post this in. The NBA is a fine example of this. I'm willing to bet there are more than enough aspiring ball players in the US, but not all of them make it. Is it because they're not as skilled? Perhaps, but it probably also has something to do with marketing like the kind Yi got. (and yes, I understand a lot of this has to do with the NBA's policies and how they value money more than anything else).

Like you said, a person may come here and make money the "hard-working, honest way." And then he'll probably send that money overseas to fetch the rest of his family, because his ties with his home country never really die. There's nothing wrong with remembering your roots, but I think you've perhaps intentionally left this out of your argument.

Also consider that the US is cracking down at this point because it does not have the funds to have a large portion of the populace not pay taxes. How can the US be the land of opportunity and also be hated by quite a few other countries at the same time? With the war in Iraq and a debt in the trillions, it's safe to say that a person, government or country cannot help others until it helps itself.

[to21]

Immigration presents an opportunity cost. People are constantly complaining that foreigners are taking away Americans' jobs and I believe this to be true.

spursfan09 - You said "Immigrants do the work that Americans themselves wouldn't want to do. Plus they would do the work for cheaper than Americans would want." Are you telling me that in this gigantic country with a hefty population, you can't find people that will want to do those jobs? I know quite a few people who would do what white collar workers would consider "degrading" because it is a job, it is money and it does pay the bills. Heck, the thread starter picked a good forum to post this in. The NBA is a fine example of this. I'm willing to bet there are more than enough aspiring ball players in the US, but not all of them make it. Is it because they're not as skilled? Perhaps, but it probably also has something to do with marketing like the kind Yi got. (and yes, I understand a lot of this has to do with the NBA's policies and how they value money more than anything else).

Like you said, a person may come here and make money the "hard-working, honest way." And then he'll probably send that money overseas to fetch the rest of his family, because his ties with his home country never really die. There's nothing wrong with remembering your roots, but I think you've perhaps intentionally left this out of your argument.

Also consider that the US is cracking down at this point because it does not have the funds to have a large portion of the populace not pay taxes. How can the US be the land of opportunity and also be hated by quite a few other countries at the same time? With the war in Iraq and a debt in the trillions, it's safe to say that a person, government or country cannot help others until it helps itself.

I agree with this statement.

It's more like Eastern Indians are taking Dell jobs from Americans!

[maxpower]

these aliens pay no taxes on anything. .

Last I checked, sales taxes were a tax. If you want something to look into, check the stats on how much money is put into IRS coffers that will never be claimed.

Illegal is illegal is the what the article is trying to break down.
Saying it over and over does not address the underlying meaning of the article.

[johnsmith]

Politics forum. Use it.

Your mouse. Don't click it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They are lucky enough to be related to a US citizen. For them, there is indeed a line -- the waiting time for a family-based visa can take upward of 10 years. A smaller number of legal immigrants are granted visas because they have advanced degrees or specialized skills and a job is waiting for them.

My mother waited ten years to come over. She didn't have any family ties here, nor advanced degrees. She did let due process run its course. Your statement is simply ignorant.

For most illegal immigrants, a legal option simply doesn't exist. Under current law, a young Mexican or Salvadoran who wants to improve his life by moving to America and working hard at a useful job generally has just two options: (a) Enter illegally, or (b) stay out forever. Several hundred thousand a year choose option (a).

This is such a lie too. The process works if you let it. The problem is there is no motivation to wait a couple of years to emigrate legally when you can just hike across the border and be working a job in two weeks time.

It's funny how you leave out the problems of illegals using stolen social security numbers and iden ies so they can get a job, or of them not paying income taxes and sending their money back to family still in Mexico, or the problem of the significant health care burden they place on everyone here in America that are picking up the tab for them in the way of bloated premiums and deductions.

I know a girl who had her iden y and social security number stolen and it was being used by an illegal. She couldn't get approved for a mortgage for a home, and after some digging the whole illegal using the SSN thing was figured out. They actually tracked it back to the person using it, and the extent of their response was 'sorry about that.' No one would prosecute because it'd tick off LULAC and the ACLU (persecution of an illegal - the horror!), and my friend went through for over two years to get it straightened out.

But go ahead and keep polishing that turd about illegals that you are trying to do in the first post, the with everyone here legally and picking up the tab and having their lives and credit ruined just for the little ol' illegals

[peewee's lovechild]

It's illegal only if you are Mexican.

If you are Canadian, then you're okay.
If you are Cuban, you get political amnesty.

It's ing bull .

[peewee's lovechild]

it's not just about keeping them out. first of all you don't know who's coming in. this aint a " " situation, this is a non-american situation. people have to start there. these aliens pay no taxes on anything. you're paying for them to be here. i can't remember the city, but a city in pennsylvania has grown more than 50%, but the tax dollars coming remains the same. does this make sense to you. do you feel like paying for someone else's tax because they're illegal? i'm behind on my electric bill. would you kindly get me up to date. i'll be glad to let you know my account info. the last time i checked illegal meant illegal. let the flames commence.

So, you're pissed at illegals because you're behind on your electric bill??
That's ing re ed.

What dumb ass point were you trying to make there?

[peewee's lovechild]

Immigration presents an opportunity cost. People are constantly complaining that foreigners are taking away Americans' jobs and I believe this to be true.

spursfan09 - You said "Immigrants do the work that Americans themselves wouldn't want to do. Plus they would do the work for cheaper than Americans would want." Are you telling me that in this gigantic country with a hefty population, you can't find people that will want to do those jobs? I know quite a few people who would do what white collar workers would consider "degrading" because it is a job, it is money and it does pay the bills. Heck, the thread starter picked a good forum to post this in. The NBA is a fine example of this. I'm willing to bet there are more than enough aspiring ball players in the US, but not all of them make it. Is it because they're not as skilled? Perhaps, but it probably also has something to do with marketing like the kind Yi got. (and yes, I understand a lot of this has to do with the NBA's policies and how they value money more than anything else).

Like you said, a person may come here and make money the "hard-working, honest way." And then he'll probably send that money overseas to fetch the rest of his family, because his ties with his home country never really die. There's nothing wrong with remembering your roots, but I think you've perhaps intentionally left this out of your argument.

Also consider that the US is cracking down at this point because it does not have the funds to have a large portion of the populace not pay taxes. How can the US be the land of opportunity and also be hated by quite a few other countries at the same time? With the war in Iraq and a debt in the trillions, it's safe to say that a person, government or country cannot help others until it helps itself.

Interesting point.

But consider this:

Unemployment rates are at their highest in the big cities. The inner cities are chock-full of people that are unemployed. If it's true that regular Americans are willing to work the type of jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, why aren't these people trying to take these jobs?

The truth is that illegals are working jobs that Americans just don't want to work. Take any unemployed American and ask them if they want to work cutting bunches of grapes, picking tomatoes, picking up garbage, etc.

They would tell you to off.
You know it, I know it, everybody knows that is true.

Maybe what we really need to change is the welfare system. Then maybe, just maybe, Americans will really feel the need to work some of these jobs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's illegal only if you are Mexican.

If you are Canadian, then you're okay.
If you are Cuban, you get political amnesty.

It's ing bull .

Canadians don't feel the need to come here illegally, they use the system in place.

Cuba is a different situation that you can't compare due to the political situation there (though we do send those caught in the ocean back, much like any illegals caught attempting to cross the Rio Grande or any of our southern borders).

I agree with the spirit of your idea though, it should be the same treatment for everyone across the board.

I also agree with the welfare comment. You've got women who pop out 6-8 kids so they can stay on welfare and get benes. They don't want to work, so go out and get knocked up as soon as they have one kid so they can continue to live on the government dime. Lame.

[dougp]

I agree with a few others - the underlying issue of American's "not wanting the jobs illegal's will work" is because Uncle Sam will pay them to be lazy.

Also - illegals aren't just Mexican's - they're all kind of nationalities.

[MoSpur]

Anyone who says that Americans do want the jobs most illegals have is kidding themselves. A lot of Americans are fine living off of Government checks. I think that's one of America's biggest problems. Too many lazy people. The Government makes it too easy for Americans. Its what is bad about this country and what's good about it.

If it were possible for the Government to kick out all illegal immigrants from the U.S, this country would be in deep trouble. We all know it, but some hate to admit it.

[spursfan09]

Interesting point.

But consider this:

Unemployment rates are at their highest in the big cities. The inner cities are chock-full of people that are unemployed. If it's true that regular Americans are willing to work the type of jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, why aren't these people trying to take these jobs?

The truth is that illegals are working jobs that Americans just don't want to work. Take any unemployed American and ask them if they want to work cutting bunches of grapes, picking tomatoes, picking up garbage, etc.

They would tell you to off.
You know it, I know it, everybody knows that is true.

Maybe what we really need to change is the welfare system. Then maybe, just maybe, Americans will really feel the need to work some of these jobs.

I totally agree. Why would Americans want to work, when they can just work the system. I know people who get 700 dollars in food stamps pay 8 bucks a month for rent, and they do not even have jobs. Thats where your tax money is going.

And I know its been said before but it makes a good point. When we build that "wall" between the US and Mexican border who do ya think is gonna build it?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So, you're pissed at illegals because you're behind on your electric bill??
That's ing re ed.

What dumb ass point were you trying to make there?

are you that dense? I don't want anybody to help me with my debt. I'm just using that as an example of my point. I'm just saying tax paying people--and i'm not talking about sales tax. come on know. even a 5 year old legal or illegal pays sales tax--pay for civil services, schools, etc. and illegals reap the benefits of 1040EZ taxpayers money. that's my "dumb ass" point

[j-6]

And I know its been said before but it makes a good point. When we build that "wall" between the US and Mexican border who do ya think is gonna build it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8y13DzxfrjY

[ObiwanGinobili]

I sure as ain't picking fruit/veggies in the RGV heat 12 hrs a day for jack diddly squat. Never mind the incredibly low pay (and yet HEB still wants like $6 for a watermelon I can get 2/$5 on the side of the road) but bending over all day hauling a bushel or a bag in 90+ degree weather?

ehm. no.
I think homeless people would decline that as well.

[Medvedenko]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

Oops! You're racist.

I was listening to Alan Colmes' radio show the other night because it's the only thing on between Phil Hendrie and Tom Leykis. Colmes was out for the evening, so a guest host was conducting an interview with the lawyer filing a class action law suit against WalMart--the world's largest retailer--alleging that WalMart cheated thousands of immigrant janitors out of wages. The host argued that the janitors didn't deserve to get paid the same wage as Americans because they were illegal immigrants and shouldn't have been in America in the first place.

My bull detector went off, so I called into the show to slam him in the face with the sledge hammer of fallacy. The conversation went something like this:


Host " o, you're on the air."
Me "Yes, I'm calling to side with the lawyer."
Host "Why?"
Me "Because saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place."
Host (pause)
"Yeah... that's a good point."


He then hung up on me and proceeded to repeat his argument verbatim, even though I handed him a plate full of his ass with all the trimmings, only this time he added something to the effect of "well these immigrants are coming to America and taking jobs away from Americans." What?

News flash: immigrants aren't taking anything from Americans. Companies like WalMart are giving jobs to them illegally. If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans ing about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.



If you lose your job to an immigrant, it's probably because he or she was willing to work harder for less money. Don't want to pay them full wages? Then don't hire them. If they do equal work, then they deserve equal pay. It's just that simple, and I'm not going to sit back like every other racist piece of ing about having to work harder because there's a little compe ion for my job, immigrant or otherwise. I know I can do my job better than anyone, and if an immigrant thinks he can do a better job than I can, I welcome him to try.

What kind of chicken pussy is afraid of compe ion? Can't get a job because you lost out to an immigrant? Well TOUGH . Nobody wants to pay you for your half-assed work if someone else can do it better. That's what America is all about. Our president may be a moron, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let any more jackasses sully the reputation of hard working Americans who are willing to work just as hard as anyone else with or without compe ion. If you can't cut it, then the people with money will pay it to someone else who can. Maybe if all you people ing weren't such lazy, pathetic, blood sucking leeches, you'd get off of your dead ass and work HARDER to do a better job. Get some balls people. If you're too chicken and you can't cut it, then maybe it's you who doesn't deserve to live in America. Not the immigrants.

Interesting view point....