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Surprised to see Tram get some love.
Surprised to see Tram get some love.
Gotta love Johnny Bench!
I fully expected to see Joe Morgan at 2B, and I was a little surprised. Surely someone has a better WS line than Billy Martin?
I never saw Trammell play. I also know the tendancy to overrate Jeter because of where he plays, but he's had some absolutely HUGE playoff moments, and was an MVP of the World Series. Even in the series that he struggled in the most (2001 vs. Arizona), he still had a game-winning homerun.
Again, I'm not saying Trammell isn't deserving, but for me I'd rather have Jeter. As overrated as he is, one must ask why he's even overrated at all.
Jeter has only 10 XBH, 8 RBIs and a whopping 33 SOs in 32 WS games.
Jeter's a 1/2 hitter. I wouldn't expect him to have a ton of XBH or RBI... The SOs concern me.
For his career, Jeter has a .302 batting averages, a .375 on-base percentage and a .809 on-base-plus-slugging.
Again, he had a miserable 2001 series (had a bum shoulder after falling into the stands in the ALCS to make a catch), take it out and his averages probably jump to .320ish, .400ish and 850ish...
His defense may not be great, but he makes a large amount of plays, and makes the spectacular plays that have saved/won sereis.
Again, I'm not saying he deserves it over Trammel, I'm merely making the case that Neyer refused to.
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 10-23-2007 at 02:44 PM.
Trammell was remarkable in 1984 for the Tigers.
I can understand the selections of Brock and Snider as outfielders, but since guys who didn't play in a lot of WS games are eligible for Neyer's list, I wonder about the lack of any mention of Lenny Dykstra, who while managing to piss off millions of people, hit .320 for his World Series career while yanking 6 HR in 50 WS at-bats, out-slugging (.700) both Brock (.655) and Snider (.594). He was crazy-good (and probably crazy-juiced) in 1993, when he hit .348 in the WS while rolling up 5 XBH (2B and 4 HR), scoring 9 runs and driving in 8 to give himself a tidy little (.913 SLG and a 1.413 OPS).
I just looked, and he was very impressive. Just as impressive as Jeter's 2000 WS, where he walked away with the MVP.
I thought this was supposed to be about games played? Trammell's series was HUGE, but like I said, his five games are very comparable to Jeter's best series. Factor in that Jeter played in 27 more WS games and still has a .300+ average and .350+ OBP, and I think I'd give it to Jeter.
BTW, Jeter has scored 27 runs in 32 WS games. Pro-rate it for a 162 clip and it's the equivalent of 137 runs scored, or better than his 122 regular season career average. I mean, factor that with his batting, OBP and OPS averages being almost identical regular season to WS lines and I see NO reason to just discount what Jeter's done.
BTW, I also just pro-rated his extra-base hits average of 10 per 32 played (postseason), then multiplied it by 162 which gave a pro-rated XBH average of 51 per 162 played, very, very close to his regular season average of 56 per 162 played.
So, his XBHs aren't that big an issue either.
His RBI is down, but as shown, his runs scored is up.
Part of what hurts Jeter in this selection is that it's being done by Rob Neyer, who has been among the leaders in proving that Jeter is a hideously overrated defensive shortstop. I would imagine that some of that clouds his objectivity when it comes to making up this sort of team. Still, I can understand why he would choose Trammell (or maybe even Robin Yount, who was special for the Brewers in 1982) over Jeter for a team like this one.
It's not like he chose Tony Womack or Rafael Santana.
I was only twelve at the time, but a fan of the Tigers. IIRC, Trammell did a lot of things during the WS that don't show up in the statistics, including turning a lot of very difficult DPs.
I was pleasantly surprised that Trammell was included, but more surprised that Morgan wasn't. I just looked up his stats, and I think I figured it out. Morgan was awesome in 1976, but really stank up the joint in 1972 and was mediocre in 1975.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/morgajo02.shtml
(Look near the bottom of the page.)
15 HRs, 41 RBIs, 167 SOs(would've led the AL this year), 5 SBs.
If you're going to pro-rate Jeter's stats, JMJ, might as well do them all.
BTW, Boudreau deserves mention as the SS AND manager of the '48 Indians.
15 HRs is right around his average. I also inferred that his RBI numbers were lower when I said: "His RBI {average} is down".
I also mentioned that the strikouts were a concern.
However, if you refuse a shortstop who bats over .300, gets on base nearly 40% of the time, nets you close to a run a game and can play very good defense up the middle, then you're crazy.
Look... I'm not going to take anything away from Trammell. I've never seen him play. His five-game stats are amazing. But comparing his best five games to Jeter's best five games proves a wash. To completely dismiss Jeter because of bias or favoritism is just as silly as someone completely dismissing what Trammell did. Which, again, I never did, nor am I doing.
Even with his terrible 2001, Jeter's stats are still worthy of mention, which is more than Neyer did, since Jeter's only mention was a dismissal in passing.
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