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  1. #1
    I refuse to act with common decency Mdot.HIM.not's Avatar
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    from the express news article on how the east side hasnt been developed and is still

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/met...a.344e6c7.html

  2. #2
    Good, Better, Best biba's Avatar
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    Worth to be read

    An Arena Wasteland
    Web Posted: 11/04/2007 12:54 AM CDT

    John Tedesco
    Express-News

    When Bexar County asked voters in 1999 to approve a $175 million arena for the San Antonio Spurs, officials promised it would spark "economic development opportunities" for the neglected East Side.
    Today, few businesses have opened their doors near the arena — even as the Spurs ask for more tax dollars to upgrade the 5-year-old AT&T Center.



    A new tattoo parlor on Houston Street appears to be the latest investment in the neighborhood. It opened in a stretch of boarded-up buildings in early 2006, said David Leon, the shop's ornately tattooed owner.

    Business is good, Leon said. But no customers stop by after a Spurs game.

    "I think they're too scared to even stop, because of how bad the label of the East Side is," Leon said.

    Despite a lot of talk and studies, the neighborhood around Leon's shop hasn't changed much since Nov. 2, 1999, when voters overwhelmingly agreed to subsidize the arena with a venue tax on hotel rooms and car rentals.

    The team wants to tap into the venue tax again, a move that will be up to voters. The Spurs started with a wish list of $164 million in improvements for the AT&T Center. The county told the team to whittle their proposal to $75 million.

    More coverage
    Talk Back: Do you think the AT&T Center has improved life for the people who live and work nearby?
    Bexar County Community Arenas Masterplan
    Bexar County Community Arena Project's 1999 FAQ



    But so far, the arena has failed to accomplish everything voters were once promised by the county. Sluggish growth near the AT&T Center has troubled those who argued against the location.

    "It's been disappointing to me that there hasn't been more development in that area," said former Mayor Howard Peak, who tried unsuccessfully to have the arena built downtown.

    Peak is a member of a San Antonio River committee that, like the Spurs, is seeking venue tax dollars. Peak said he's not trying to spoil the team's efforts to improve the AT&T Center. And he insisted he has no desire to reopen old wounds from the heated arena campaign of 1999. In fact, Peak said he likes the arena and believes it serves a vital purpose.

    But a lack of change in the aging neighborhood near the arena gnaws on the former mayor. African Americans and Hispanics are the majority on the East Side, and many residents there feel left out of the city's booming growth.


    (Bob Owen/Express-News)

    The run-down neighborhood around the AT&T Center hasn't changed much since the venue was built.


    "The thing that bothers me the most is, the East Side is one of the areas that needs lots of help," Peak said. "There are good people there who want better things for the neighborhoods they live in. Lots of money was spent. And except for some relatively small instances, the area is much the same as it was."

    Empty promises?


    County Commissioner Tommy Adkisson, a staunch supporter of the arena, insisted voters were never assured of an East Side revival.
    "We never promised a rose garden, so to speak, because we knew going in, it wasn't going to be the end all, be all," said Adkisson, who debated Peak on local television in 1999 about the merits of where to build the arena.

    Adkisson said if the AT&T Center had been built downtown next to the Alamodome, as Peak proposed, it would have cost taxpayers more money, and it would have created nightmarish traffic jams.

    And Adkisson said the arena clearly improved the East Side, despite the lack of visible growth. The arena draws large crowds for concerts, special events and the annual Stock Show & Rodeo.

    Women and minorities owned many companies that helped build and operate the 18,500-seat arena, he said.

    "It was the great mother lode of economic opportunity" for those companies, Adkisson said.

    During the intense campaign for the arena plan in 1999, the county's sales pitch included many promises. The arena was built primarily to keep the Spurs in San Antonio. But part of the pitch said the venue also would be a "new node for economic development."

    The county's Web site offered voters a "frequently answered questions" page regarding the arena proposal. Under the question of "who benefits," the county's FAQ sheet said the new arena "spreads the wealth" by bringing "the potential of spin-off economic development opportunities to an underdeveloped part of the community."

    One of those opportunities was an entertainment district, according to then-County Judge Cyndi Taylor Krier, who spearheaded the push for the site's location.

    Three months before the November 1999 election, Krier told the San Antonio Express-News that civic and business groups had discussed ideas about how to develop the area.

    Those ideas, Krier said, included "restaurants, a hotel, an entertainment district, recording industry facilities, an ag industry showcase and sports training facilities."

    In the years after the election, local officials and the Spurs held out cautious hope that the arena would be a catalyst for growth.

    Spurs owner Peter Holt estimated it could take a decade or longer.

    "We have purposely tried not to over-promise," Holt told the San Antonio Business Journal in October 2002, a month before the Spurs first played in the new arena.

    "We can't change this neighborhood overnight," Holt said. "However, there is the beginning of some momentum here. Now we have to keep it going."

    No change


    Krier was on her cell phone with a reporter last week, answering questions about the AT&T Center, when she had an idea.
    "Why don't we go over there together?" she asked.

    Krier had fought hard as county judge to give the East Side a new arena. She clashed with then-Mayor Peak about the venue's tax funding and location.

    The bitter fight left scars that, eight years later, have yet to heal. On the phone, Krier suspected — incorrectly — that Peak had tipped off a reporter about the arena's failures.

    "He absolutely refused to work with the county in any way on this," Krier said.

    A few hours later, Krier drove to the newspaper building in a gray Ford Taurus she calls her "mobile office," picked up her passenger and turned left on Houston Street, the main corridor to the arena.

    It was a sunny autumn afternoon, and as she drove toward the AT&T Center, Krier pointed out how the street had been repaved and cleaned up.

    "It's clearly become safer, and its appearance has been upgraded," the impromptu tour guide said. "That's often a first step to get folks to come back in."

    Krier sees potential for growth beyond the arena's immediate area. The stretch of Houston Street leading to the East Side, for example, could be redeveloped to offer an attractive link between the arena and downtown, she said.

    Within view of the arena, the drive was interrupted by a Union Pacific train rumbling across Houston Street. The spot where Krier stopped, off the southwest corner of the arena's sprawling parking lots, offered a snapshot of the chaotic mix of land uses surrounding the site.

    The nearest buildings were Leon's tattoo parlor, a tiny funeral home, an auto repair shop, a vacant liquor store and a quiet, aging neighborhood.

    Beyond the tracks on Houston Street, a Coca-Cola bottling plant operates south of the arena. Directly to the east, golfers hit the links at the city-owned Willow Springs Golf Course. A Ryder truck rental office and similar companies do business in an industrial zone north of the arena.

    Few, if any, businesses appear to complement a state-of-the-art sports arena.

    A 2003 study conducted for the city, the county, the Spurs and a community group noted that the "disorganized area" surrounding the AT&T Center challenged redevelopment. The area is an "incongruous mix of industrial, commercial and residential uses, as well as underutilized and vacant land."

    Cake, no icing


    In Krier's eyes, opportunity fills the area. Salado Creek flows east of the arena, and she said it could be a beautiful spot for development outside the flood plain.
    She noted sparks of new investment. At the Willow Springs Golf Course, former Spurs player George "The Iceman" Gervin opened a restaurant in 2003.

    Northeast of the golf course, Bill Tidwell, president of Cardell Cabinetry, bought the luxurious Red Berry Mansion in 2002 and remodeled it for special events, such as weddings and corporate meetings. The mansion is about a mile from the AT&T Center.

    As the last of the rattling Union Pacific cars rolled by, Krier shifted the Taurus into gear. The arena loomed into view and Krier pulled into the parking lot.

    She checked the odometer.

    "OK, 3 miles," Krier announced.

    To critics who felt the arena should be built downtown to bolster the tourist-dependent economy, here was evidence that they nearly got their wish, she said.

    "It really is closer than I think folks realize," Krier said.

    As Krier explored the streets and neighborhoods around the arena, she occasionally dwelled on the unhappy possibility that more shops and restaurants won't be built near the AT&T Center.

    She acknowledged there's not much for Spurs fans to do after a game. Police direct the flow of traffic away from the center as efficiently as possible. Krier wondered if more restaurants could be built on the property for fans who want to stay, maybe for dessert or coffee.

    Looking back on the 1999 arena campaign, Krier said County Commissioner Adkisson was right — the county had been careful to refrain from grandiose pledges of an East Side revival.

    When reminded of her comments before the election about an entertainment district, Krier said: "That absolutely was something that's been discussed. It just hasn't materialized.

    "That would have been icing on the cake," she added. "We still have the cake — in the AT&T Center."

    A bad choice?


    Critics of publicly subsidized sports stadiums say the venues are poor economic generators.
    Neil deMause, co-author of the book "Field of Schemes," said the only successes he's found are in areas that started taking off before the sports team arrived — places like the SoMa District in San Francisco, the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego, Calif., and Baltimore's Inner Harbor.

    "What you want to help promote development is something that will bring people there to shop 365 days a year," deMause wrote in an e-mail to the Express-News.

    "And sports facilities, which are dark more nights than not, only open for a few hours a day when they are, and encourage fans to spend as much as possible inside their gates, don't fit the bill very well."

    The Colorado Rockies disappointed fans in the World Series this year. But their Coors Field, built in Denver's thriving LoDo, or lower downtown, area, has won many supporters.

    Asked to describe business during the World Series, bartender Michael Derben answered: "It was insane."

    Derben serves drinks at the El Chapultepec jazz bar in Denver, a block away from Coors Field.

    "Pretty much every bartender I know is begging for a vacation right now," Derben said.

    LoDo was on an upswing before Coors Field opened in 1995. Civic boosters said pedestrians walking to games and hanging out downtown afterward have helped LoDo thrive. Public transit solves some potential parking problems.

    "It's a case of the stars aligning — Coors Field definitely being one of those stars," said Sarah McClean, spokeswoman for the nonprofit Downtown Denver Partnership.

    In San Antonio, the California-based HollyHills Group has bought land around the arena and announced plans for a complex of shops, sports fields, a hotel and even a NASCAR track. Some county officials were openly skeptical.

    "We have not walked away from the East Side vision," said T.J. Connolly, the company's spokesman.

    But he criticized the county for lacking a vision of its own.

    The county paid more than $200,000 for a study last year that examined how to revamp the AT&T Center property and the surrounding neighborhood. That research is now "collecting dust," Connolly said.

    The study recommended that a 200-room hotel and sports field be built near the golf course at Willow Springs, with the goal of attracting people seven days a week, not just during events at the AT&T Center.

    One chapter of the study is led "Fulfilling the Promise."

    Has it been fulfilled?

    "I think it's a work in progress," said former Mayor Ed Garza, whose firm helped write the study.

    No clear answer

    County Judge Nelson Wolff said it could take years for anything significant to happen near the arena. He noted that the hotels, condos and restaurants built near the Alamodome were a long time in coming — and it doesn't hurt that the Alamodome is downtown.
    "Stadiums, in and of themselves, do not create economic development," Wolff said. It's going to take an investor with deep pockets and government backing to reshape the neighborhood, he said, and so far the most promising discussion he's had is with Tidwell, the owner of Red Berry Mansion and other properties near the arena.

    "He's a businessman. I said, 'You need to bring somebody in who's a developer, who will work with you,'" Wolff recalled. "I don't know what he's done with that."

    Messages left at Tidwell's office last week weren't returned. City Councilwoman Sheila McNeil, who is working on bringing new entertainment venues to the East Side, also did not return repeated messages.

    From the Spurs' perspective, spokesman Leo Gomez said the NBA team is proud of its neighbors. But he emphasized the Spurs never promised a new arena would bring them an economic boom.

    "We know better than that," Gomez said. "It hasn't worked in any other community in the country. And it's not going to happen here."

    Gomez said the real question for voters is simple: Should the AT&T Center continue to be a top-notch facility for San Antonio? If so, he said, it needs more tax dollars to keep it that way.

    Within view of the arena last week, a woman stood across from Leon's tattoo parlor, hawking purses to passing motorists.

    Denise Nobles, a lifelong East Side resident, seemed surprised by this question: Has the arena improved life for the people who live and work nearby?

    Nobles noted that the many potholes of East Houston Street have been paved over. The repairs probably wouldn't have happened, she said, without the AT&T Center.

    "I feel like, they wouldn't have done it just for the blacks," Nobles said.

    Trying to think of other possible benefits, Nobles remembered that a friend works at the arena.

    "A lot of people got jobs over there," Nobles noted, referring to the small army of employees that sell concessions and maintain the cavernous structure.

    "They're not paying jack," she said of the arena jobs. "But when you're not doing nothing, anything helps."

    When it came to whether the arena has ever drawn new investment to neighborhood, Nobles kept hitting a dead end. Finally, she gave an answer.

    "You know what?" she said. "I really don't know. Maybe it is helping, but I just don't see it."



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  3. #3
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    That is one monster article. I read about 1/2 of it and gave up when I saw how much more there was. The bottom line is while there may be some new shops or what have you around the att center, but the surrounding area is going to be poor. 99.5% of the 'economic improvement' isn't going to reach the nearby residents, it's going to be for the people that own the shops. Perhaps some minimum/low wage jobs will open up, but other than that, the att center isn't driving money into the surrounding area.
    Well, except for ticket scalpers and the valero gas station.

  4. #4
    I refuse to act with common decency spurscenter's Avatar
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    very interesting article.

    well written.

    i wish the spurs still played downtown in order to hang out after a game.

    You tell any NBA fan that never been to SBC Center and they would be amazed where it is.

    I think so many still think its downtown due to TV coverage always showing riverwalk.

  5. #5
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Howard Peak is the Mike D'Antoni of San Antonio. What a little . You lost, . Let it go. Your "owners" in the hotel and restaurant cabal were too slow and had a bad plan: increase the sales tax. That would have never passed, and the Spurs would have been the team moving to OKC.

  6. #6
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    very interesting article.

    well written.

    i wish the spurs still played downtown in order to hang out after a game.

    You tell any NBA fan that never been to SBC Center and they would be amazed where it is.

    I think so many still think its downtown due to TV coverage always showing riverwalk.
    IIRC, the city arena plan was situated in what was Victoria Courts, almost as far away from Commerce street as the SBC, albeit in a Southerly rather than Easterly direction.

  7. #7
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    BTW, open your eyes, people. The only reason this is even a story is the fact that since the bond on the SBC was retired early, and the county wants to renew to do river walk and SBC improvements, the H&R industry trots out their little lapdog, Howard Peak, to try to kill this, because they don't want the hospitality tax to continue. Yeah, it killed tourism, just like you said it would Howard. I know I haven't seen a ing tourist or conventioneer in downtown since it passed.

  8. #8
    Believe.
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    I must admit, I haven't kept up-to-date on this issue. But, why does the 5 year old AT&T Center need improvements?
    Last edited by some_user86; 11-04-2007 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Grammar edit.

  9. #9
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Because the Spurs asked for it. There was a laundry list of items in the original articles in the E-N. Go do a search on their website.

    As long as it's tied to a 5 year extension on their lease, I'm OK with it. This didn't hit my wallet at all, the first time around.

  10. #10
    Believe.
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    So what if the Spurs asked for it? Spoiled sports franchises, begging for the public to fund their operations, are becoming a real PITA. Granted, there is a euphoria surrounding the Spurs right now because we're in the midst of a successful franchise producing a dynasty.

    I wonder why the hospitality tax can't be used for other revenue generating venues, since it is obvious that stadiums are not such a measure. There are many creative solutions to bringing in real money rather then dumping money in the lap of a sports ins ution. We funded the majority of that ing arena. Let them handle their own renovation projects. 100 million to enclose the Sombrilla and to reconfigure the lower seats? them. They're just being greedy. Are they not recovering money with their lofty ticket price increases? And they think that reconfiguring the lower seats and enclosing a ing sports bar is going to bring in more money? I would love to have what they're smoking.

  11. #11
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    They won't get nearly all of their list of items, and they know that. The tactic is this: They want A and B, so they ask for A,B,C, and D. My guess is that they get their lower bowl seat improvements, and a few other spiffy items for the suites and scoreboards, they sign a 5 year lease extension, and the Riverwalk improvements get thrown in so that it passes. That's your revenue generator. The RW is the economic dynamo that makes downtown tourism run.

    The reality is that public money supports sports teams, everywhere. You can rail against it, but it is what it is, and if you demure, you're not competing. It's always going to be financially cheaper to keep it upgraded and extend their lease, too. If you let it become a 20 YO arena, then there's another vote to build a new one. These improvements stall that for 5 years.
    Last edited by exstatic; 11-04-2007 at 06:46 AM.

  12. #12
    The Dude Buddy Holly's Avatar
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    IIRC, the city arena plan was situated in what was Victoria Courts, almost as far away from Commerce street as the SBC, albeit in a Southerly rather than Easterly direction.
    How can you even compare half a mile (Victoria Courts) to 3 miles (where they eventually put it). Come on, please don't.

  13. #13
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    How can you even compare half a mile (Victoria Courts) to 3 miles (where they eventually put it). Come on, please don't.
    Are people going to walk half a mile? No? Then if they get in their cars, what's the diff? Maybe 5 minutes.

    Face it: the only good place directly contiguous to downtown to put a sports venue has one already. Anything else is driving distance for 90% of people.

    I don't know why we're talking about the VC arena, anyway. It's as dead as Peak's political career and the sales tax increase they wanted to fund it.

  14. #14
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that the lack of development around the AT&T Center can be attributed to either the Spurs or the County. Each invested money in that spot to create a facility that allows for ready-made customers on many nights of the year. The opportunity is there for entreprenuers to undertake development that might revitalize the community; the onus, though, is on the entreprenuers to sieze that opportunity. The County can provide incentives for development in that area and the Spurs can lend support to such developments, but neither the County nor the Spurs can make them do it.

    As for the location of the AT&T Center, the thing that's forgotten is that location became a substantially less vital concern when Howard Peak fumbled the arena initiative in late 1998 and early 1999 -- exstatic is absolutely right. The City had the first crack at devising an arena plan to keep the Spurs in San Antonio. Peak and Company put together a plan that would have put the new arena in a more reasonable place, but did so with a funding plan that made absolutely no sense -- and it also tried to piggy-back a bunch of unpopular programs on top of the arena plan.

    When the City failed in its attempt to devise a useful arena plan, the County had the wherewithal to realize that without an arena plan, there would be no Spurs -- that Peter Holt's group wasn't kidding about relocating without a new building.

    Once the City dropped the ball, it's not as if the County government could just decide to locate a new building on city-owned property. County government has extraordinarily limited powers and even more limited physical space in which to operate. A County-funded project was necessarily going to be constructed on County-owned (or County-condemned) property.

    In that sense, complaining about the building being located outside of downtown is complete folly.

    The County's problem was that the most sensible County property for building such an arena was the area around the Freeman Coliseum. That property was in an economically-underdeveloped area and would not exploit existing infrastructure. But it was a place to build a modern mid-sized arena necessary to keep the Spurs in San Antonio (which was, I think, the most pressing issue at the moment -- the Spurs were absolutely leaving without a new building and anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't remember what was going on in 1999 very well).

    The City thought it could call the Spurs' bluff, but Holt wasn't bluffing. The County realized that and acted quickly, even if somewhat rashly, to keep the Spurs viable in San Antonio. They've created opportunity, but few have been willing to seize that opportunity. Perhaps the opportunity is not economically-viable yet, or maybe there's some kind of prejudice at play in the lack of community development around the building.

    Regardless, the City and County (by extension) would have been, I think, much worse off had the Spurs departed. As things stood in 1999, the choices were to build at the current site and hope for good things to happen around it or to not build at all and hope that in 20-30 years, San Antonio could lure another professional sports franchise to fill the void. Choice A seems a much wiser course to me.

  15. #15
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    The ATT is in an awful location and anyone who thought fans would hang around the area after the game was crazy.

  16. #16
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    Point fingers at whoever but ultimately it was STUPID not to build it downtown. When I go to games I just shake my head at the lost promotional opportunities and the totally justifiable jokes made by the outside media. I guess it's good for the restauranteers at the ATT because where the else are you going to go to get soemthing to eat before a game?

  17. #17
    The Dude Buddy Holly's Avatar
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    Are people going to walk half a mile? No? Then if they get in their cars, what's the diff? Maybe 5 minutes.
    It's half a mile from Commerce, that was my point. And why would they walk when parking would have been available at the arena. Or does everyone walk from downtown to the at&t center?

    Face it: the only good place directly contiguous to downtown to put a sports venue has one already. Anything else is driving distance for 90% of people.
    Are you talking about the Alamodome? Has is that the only good place? It's across the freakin' highway. If the city handled this currently, had the will and creativity back then they could have placed an arena somewhere in the (now) River North District.


    I don't know why we're talking about the VC arena, anyway. It's as dead as Peak's political career and the sales tax increase they wanted to fund it.
    What's with your hardon for Peak? Did he bang your wife in 1999 or something? Get over whatever silly gripe you have with that guy. That's not what any of this is about. It's about placing a arena in the area in was placed. It was a bad choice, clear and bottom line.

  18. #18
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    Should have torn dome Ciserno's Kickback Palace and built a great great basketball arena.

  19. #19
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Point fingers at whoever but ultimately it was STUPID not to build it downtown. When I go to games I just shake my head at the lost promotional opportunities and the totally justifiable jokes made by the outside media. I guess it's good for the restauranteers at the ATT because where the else are you going to go to get soemthing to eat before a game?
    I don't disagree. But, again, that's not on the Spurs (who were left to take whichever plan was most viable) and it's not on the County (which couldn't have built downtown). The first opportunity to construct a new building was offered to the City, but Howard Peak put politics in front of practicality and lost that opportunity for the City. Plan B was to build away from downtown and hope that businesses would follow; that was better than Plan C, which would have had Spurs' fans flying to New Orleans, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Orange County, or who knows where else to see their team play.

  20. #20
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    What's with your hardon for Peak? Did he bang your wife in 1999 or something? Get over whatever silly gripe you have with that guy. That's not what any of this is about. It's about placing a arena in the area in was placed. It was a bad choice, clear and bottom line.
    Where exactly was Bexar County going to construct a building downtown? With what authority was Bexar County going to be able to acquire enough land to build such a building downtown? And how, if the City of San Antonio couldn't come up with a reasonable funding plan for such a building, could the building be constructed under the City's au ies, which would be necessary to constructing such a building downtown?

    All of this talk about where the building is located wholly misses the historical facts that existed at the time (not the City's project) and the governmental limitations that limited the County's options (because it was not the City's project).

  21. #21
    It's In The Numbers 1369's Avatar
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    I think that the NEISD screwed the pooch by not granting the TIF to have the new arena built at the old Longhorn Cement facility.

    That would have been a much better location for the arena.

  22. #22
    DO OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY!!! YODA's Avatar
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    Im no Arean Expert on this, but arnt a lot of stadiums and arenas not located in central down town area of their perspective cities?? I know Houstons Stadium is on the South side and i belive their Arena is too. In Dallas, isnt their current stadium in Irving Texas? I dont know about alot of others, but Im sure alot of others are not located in central downtown. Havent it downtown jsut makes it better to travel to from all parts of town. How many people actually stay after a Spurs game at the Alamo dome? I just jetted out of there. That one guy did have a point about eating. When I go to the Att center, I think where I might goeat before a game. whemn you think of the att center, you dont think of any places to eat close by. I end up going to some place off WW white to grab a quick bite. I think the Spurs would have preferred downtown, but at the time, it just wasnt gonna happen.

    Speaking of the att Center, Is it just me or is the way its designed make it look like there is alot less people donw there. Seems like their is stairs comign out everyhwere taking up valueable seat space.

  23. #23
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    The BIGGG crunch will come when the Spurs aren't very good anymore. Only the very few most fanatical fans will drive their asses to that sorry place. That's when the price will be paid.

  24. #24
    Chillin' like a villain... TampaDude's Avatar
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    Doesn't it seem that stadiums/arenas usually seem to be located in ghetto areas? One notable exception is the Verizon Center in DC, which is actually located in a fairly upscale area amidst many hotels and office buildings.

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    I think that the NEISD screwed the pooch by not granting the TIF to have the new arena built at the old Longhorn Cement facility.

    That would have been a much better location for the arena.


    Exactly.

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