Game Thoughts: Toros vs. Jam - Nov. 24

[ChumpDumper]

Box Score

- Normally I would start out with a thought about Ian Mahimni since he is a Spur, but Keith Langford is not to be denied. He put the team on his back in the second quarter and didn't put it down until he put the game away in the final second. He is really showing some potential as a combo guard and performances like tonight's will not be lost on NBA scouts. He had bricked a free throw in crunch time, but got a steal, a basket, a block and a clutch free throw in the final 16 seconds -- elevating an already excellent game into the stratosphere.

- From a developmental standpoint, this game seemed to be all about how players handle high-pressure situations, almost regardless of the outcome. Very late in the game, Squeaky Johnson was subbed out on offense on consecutive possessions by Majic Dorsey and Ken Paulino. Johnson was playing a decent enough game and played the rest of the game, so he didn't seem to be in the doghouse. Coach Snyder also seemed to test the big men to see how they played while in foul trouble. Ian and Kevin Pittsnogle didn't do so well, fouling out within thirty seconds of each other with almost five minutes to go. Tim Bush was available and had committed no fouls in his less than two minutes of play, but he was not called upon again. Asking Anthony Fuqua to close out that time while carrying four fouls of his own was a tall order, but Fuqua didn't foul again and played some really good defense down the stretch that didn't show up in the box score.

- Ian had another unfortunate game with the foul calls, but this one can't be blamed on the refs. A couple of his fouls were on the offensive end (illegal picks and the like) and at least one was due to a second effort after a good block. He's doing an ok job of not leaving his feet too quickly. He really needs to work on getting into position for rebounds, anticipating and moving when the ball goes up instead of reacting once it hits the rim. Many of his nine boards were due to his sheer advantage in athleticism, and it's not going to be as great an advantage in the NBA.

- With all the other bigs in foul trouble, Justin Bowen finished the game at power forward where he played more than a few minutes before that time as well. He had a great overall game and an easier time at power forward as he was matched up against combo forward Brandon Bowman instead of a larger opponent. Ten of his 17 points game in the first 15 minutes of the game or so, and most of the offensive rebounds he grabbed while swooping in to crash the boards around the more earthbound Jam players.

- Roderick Riley looks great. I mean he's a pretty ugly dude, but he probably hasn't been this thin since high school. There is no way he still weighs his listed 280; he must be closer to 260, with all the increased quickness and hops that implies. He's still pretty strong and difficult to dislodge and block out, so his overall worth as a basketball player has increased exponentially. I'm impressed he has been able to get into this kind of shape 5+ years into his pro career, and he should serve as an inspiration to fat bas s everywhere.

- Jim Harrick is a quality coach. He made some really good halftime adjustments to get the Jam back in the game after what could have been a knockout blow by the Toros in the first quarter when they led 30-14. Going zone and prodding his most experienced player (Bowman) to attack the basket and get the Toros bigs in foul trouble and helped get them back in the game and take the lead until Langford's heroics put it out of reach. He's got one of the weakest teams on paper to work with and kept them compe ive to the end. He might catch some flack for not playing Golden State's Kosta Perovic that much, but in Harrick's defense Kosta did kinda suck for the most part. I'm not sure I can really judge Quin his own, because it looks like he's operating on orders from above as much if not more than running his own show.

- Marcus Williams was in attendance. He told me he should be back in a week or so. Mo McHone was talking to him intently during the game, so it's pretty obvious we haven't seen the last of him. I wasn't able to talk with Eric Dawson to find out when he will suit up, but I have to figure he should be back next week since he hasn't been waived due to injury as well.

- The crowd seemed smaller than the listed number. An adequate number but a little disappointing considering the debuts of other teams. On the upside, the court looks great and they got rid of the purple Raptor hand-me-downs and got proper new black and white stanchions. Russ Bookbinder and RC Buford were in attendance as well as the regular Spurs/Toros officials.

- Dennis Johnson's number was retired and one of his sons played a musical tribute to him. I cried all over again.

[timvp]

Awesome job, thanks

From all I've seen of Langford, I see him as like a perfect European player. He could make millions in Europe because he plays smart and he's a good shooter. I just think he lacks the athleticism and height to play in the NBA. Maybe I'm wrong and he can transition into a point guard first combo guard a la Charlie Bell but I think it's a long shot. However, if he keeps putting up stats like this, he's going to get called up by someone. Do you agree that he's a limited prospect or do you think I'm selling him short?

Do you think Mahinmi can adjust to the refs? The weird thing about his development the last couple years is I haven't seen him adjust to foul trouble. In Europe, he just kept fouling. In summer league, his fouling got worse instead of better. He didn't foul much on the NBA level but that was mostly due to him playing in garbage time combined with the fact that the NBA lets bigmen get away with a lot of pushing and bumping. That said, Mahinmi has to learn how to not foul so much. He can't develop while in foul trouble.

Where do you see Williams fitting in? I want Bowen2 to keep playing the amount of minutes he's playing. Maybe move Langford to point and go big or move Bowen2 to PF and go small?

That's cool about DJ's number retirement. It would have been nice to have him coaching this bunch

[timvp]

Oh and was the play-by-play accurate in that the Toros were down by four with like 35 seconds to go? If so, how did they come back to win?

Thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

From all I've seen of Langford, I see him as like a perfect European player. He could make millions in Europe because he plays smart and he's a good shooter. I just think he lacks the athleticism and height to play in the NBA. Maybe I'm wrong and he can transition into a point guard first combo guard a la Charlie Bell but I think it's a long shot. However, if he keeps putting up stats like this, he's going to get called up by someone. Do you agree that he's a limited prospect or do you think I'm selling him short?

I try to judge if a player can "get away" with what he is doing in the D-League in the NBA. You are definitely right that he lacks speed and size to be a pure shooting guard in the NBA. His playmaking and the fact he can be trusted with the ball are the things that might sneak him into the league. He won't be able to be plugged into just any system, but I don't think that can be said of any of the point/combo guards in the D-League this season. I do agree he could be a star in Europe.

Do you think Mahinmi can adjust to the refs? The weird thing about his development the last couple years is I haven't seen him adjust to foul trouble. In Europe, he just kept fouling. In summer league, his fouling got worse instead of better. He didn't foul much on the NBA level but that was mostly due to him playing in garbage time combined with the fact that the NBA lets bigmen get away with a lot of pushing and bumping. That said, Mahinmi has to learn how to not foul so much. He can't develop while in foul trouble.

I think he should be able to adapt. He has a small army of coaches watching his every move, and I get the impression some of his fouls come from what they are telling him to do. These first couple of games seemed like a feeling out process with the players; winning and maximizing each player's performance seems secondary right now. It's easy enough to fall back on Langford to keep games close. It's frustrating from a desire-to-win point of view but fascinating from a developmental point of view.

Where do you see Williams fitting in? I want Bowen2 to keep playing the amount of minutes he's playing. Maybe move Langford to point and go big or move Bowen2 to PF and go small?

He could take 20 minutes from some combination of Langford, Paulino and Bowen without hurting their overall development. Our lack of size really hurts at times.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh and was the play-by-play accurate in that the Toros were down by four with like 35 seconds to go? If so, how did they come back to win?

Thanks.

I'm not quite sure about the exact sequence, sorry. I can tell you that the Toros had some luck with halfcourt traps and Bowen got a couple of putbacks late playing PF. Langford scored that final four points (1-1 at the line, steal to layup and one made FT and one intentional miss after the block since there was only .6 seconds left. Don't remember exactly who scored before those points, but down 4 with 35 to go sounds right.

[mystargtr34]

Chumpdumper... you talked to Marcus Williams???

[nfg3]

Nice report Keep it up.

Though it is going to be interesting to see how Ian develops. I love his atheleticism but have been concerned about his foul trouble. Seems that he can't get into any kind of flow due to that. Nice to see that he has the coaches' attention. This will make or break him IMO. He will never be a Spur if he doesn't learn this aspect of the game.

[picnroll]

Has Mahinmi been able to hold position against strong, physical players?

[Bruno]

Mahinmi has had something like one practice with the Toros before playing these two games. Let's hope he will be able to adjust to his new teammates and to the D-league fast.
Good news for Williams. With him and Washington, Toros look good on the paper.

[SequSpur]

were you wearing your spurstalk.com shirt?

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpdumper... you talked to Marcus Williams???

Very briefly. It's one advantage of watching games in such a small venue.

Has Mahinmi been able to hold position against strong, physical players?

He did ok against Riley when he had good position, but couldn't move him much to improve his position when he started out of it; in that case he tries to go around rather than through and that can lead to fouls. On offense it looks like he's going to rely on speed more than strength. He could actually learn a bit from Anthony Fuqua who does a fair job though he weighs 15-20 pounds less than even Ian.

were you wearing your spurstalk.com shirt?

I get my access by wearing the Charlie the Chocolate Chip Pancake mascot outfit IHoP gave me, although everyone thinks I'm a cookie.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I get my access by wearing the Charlie the Chocolate Chip Pancake mascot outfit IHoP gave me, although everyone thinks I'm a cookie.

That was unexpected.

[picnroll]

V
He did ok against Riley when he had good position, but couldn't move him much to improve his position when he started out of it; in that case he tries to go around rather than through and that can lead to fouls. On offense it looks like he's going to rely on speed more than strength. He could actually learn a bit from Anthony Fuqua who does a fair job though he weighs 15-20 pounds less than even Ian.

It seems like Mahinmi is trying to become a power player and he'll never be one. He can lift all the weight he wants but his base is never going to be that big to move players around. He's going to have to be fast, quick crafty. He should be watching guys like Camby and he should be developing some mid-range game as well imo.

[2centsworth]

keep it coming chump. good job!

[E20]

just think he lacks the athleticism and height to play in the NBA.

?

He's listed as 6'4"?

[ChumpDumper]

Langford measured 6'3.5" in shoes at draft camp, which isn't great for a slashing two guard in the NBA. That's why working on his playmaking, ballhandling and outside shooting will be critical for his chances of getting into the NBA as more of a combo guard, a role that better matches his size.

[Spurs Brazil]

Thanks for the recap CD

[tomcat]

i don't think dwade is much taller and correct me if i am wrong but isn't he a slashing 2 guard?

what makes a great slasher is not size but the ability to finish in traffic.

wade twists and contorts his body in traffic; watching langford in his kansas years he seemed to me a poor man's dwade.

just my two cents.

it will be interesting to see how marcus williams does fit in with langford and bowen faring so well early. i do not think he is better than either.

[ChumpDumper]

Wayne measured an inch and a quarter taller than Langford with a longer wingspan. He is also more athletic. Your assessment isn't far off, but those are the kind of differences that can keep a guy out of the league.

it will be interesting to see how marcus williams does fit in with langford and bowen faring so well early. i do not think he is better than either.

Maybe not, but he could be better than Ken Paulino in some situations and the Toros need some size when Bowen is out

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Interesting stuff, CD, thanks.

We need a pick of you as the cookie talking to the team!

[tomcat]

freakish wingspans for their heights!

guys 5, 6 inches taller have similar wingspans.

this obviously accounts for their ability to finish in the paint coupled with quick first steps.

i'm still not sold on marcus williams' game. i don't think he will be able to score open jumpers like paulino. paulino is their only outside threat beyond the arc.

did you see pittsnogle only grabbed one rebound in their first game and has been outrebounded both games by bowen and langford and squeaky?