Reply With Quote
"We are the largest producer, the U.S. is the largest consumer" of oil, said Abdulaziz al-Khayyal, senior vice president, industrial relations, for Saudi Aramco, the kingdom's national oil company."
I guess that makes us their ?
...so much for can't do it because of pesky U.S. environmental laws and unrealized long-term costs - American companies can't do it, but the Saudis can....
Work continues at the existing Motiva plant during the
ground-breaking ceremony for the refinery’s expansion in Port Arthur.
Foreign oil companies building Texas-size refinery in Port Arthur
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
By ELIZABETH SOUDER and JIM LANDERS / The Dallas Morning News
Dallas NewsTwo foreign companies broke ground Monday on construction of the largest oil refinery in the U.S. in the Gulf Coast town of Port Arthur.
Motiva Enterprises LLC, owned by Royal Dutch S and Saudi Aramco, will invest $7 billion to expand an existing refinery.
That's the biggest capital investment Texas has ever received, and it comes at a time when refiners are enjoying fat profits, state officials said.
Motiva refinery in Port Arthur, Texass
Some U.S. refiners are shy about expanding at home, where demand for fuel grows slowly. Instead, they're building overseas, where the appe e for fuel is more ravenous.
"We are the largest producer, the U.S. is the largest consumer" of oil, said Abdulaziz al-Khayyal, senior vice president, industrial relations, for Saudi Aramco, the kingdom's national oil company.
"We've always made a decision to be present in a significant way in all major markets," he said.
Saudi Aramco is also building refineries outside of the U.S., but the Port Arthur project is massive.
The expansion will more than double the capacity for the existing refinery to 600,000 barrels a day. It will make enough fuel to fill about 700,000 cars a day. The project should be finished in 2010.
The Port Arthur project will surpass Exxon Mobil Corp.'s facility in Beaumont, currently the largest U.S. refinery.
National oil companies such as Saudi Aramco are building refineries and expanding existing ones for several reasons. Iran, Iraq and Venezuela are trying to build refineries to meet domestic demand and lessen imports of gasoline.
Earlier this year, Saudi Aramco teamed with Exxon Mobil and Sinopec to announce a plan to triple capacity at the Fujian refinery in China to 240,000 barrels a day.
Clearly, it's not that it can't be done, but rather that American oil companies have no vested interest in increasing refinery capacity in the U.S. when they can build them in India and China and make a lot more money....
"We are the largest producer, the U.S. is the largest consumer" of oil, said Abdulaziz al-Khayyal, senior vice president, industrial relations, for Saudi Aramco, the kingdom's national oil company."
I guess that makes us their ?
This is one of dan's more ignorant threads. There has been an absolute boom in refinery expansion projects in the U.S. that has strained the supply of skilled workers in the petroleum/chemical industries to the breaking point.
Ongoing/planned refinery expansions in the United States -- a partial list
Chevron - Pascagoula, MS
BP - Whiting, IN
BP - Toledo, OH
Valero - Norco, LA
Marathon - Garyville, LA
Marathon - Detroit, MI
Marathon - Kentucky
Arizona Clean Fuels - Yuma, AZ
Citgo - Corpus Christi, TX
ConocoPhillips - Rodeo, CA
ConocoPhillips - Billings, MT
ConocoPhillips - Wood River, IL
Murphy - Superior, WI
Big West - Bakersfield, CA
Tesoro - Los Angeles, CA
P.S. On each and every one of those projects, there are liberals trying to stop it.
Your damn right there is!! We've got clients in the field who simply can't keep up with the demand.
I'm sure it is not only liberals.
Uh-Oh! Dan wipe the egg off your face or should I say
Ongoing/planned refinery expansions in the United States -- a partial list
Chevron - Pascagoula, MS
BP - Whiting, IN
BP - Toledo, OH
Valero - Norco, LA
Marathon - Garyville, LA
Marathon - Detroit, MI
Marathon - Kentucky
Arizona Clean Fuels - Yuma, AZ
Citgo - Corpus Christi, TX
ConocoPhillips - Rodeo, CA
ConocoPhillips - Billings, MT
ConocoPhillips - Wood River, IL
Murphy - Superior, WI
Big West - Bakersfield, CA
Tesoro - Los Angeles, CA
do you smell something. I think Dan stepped in it.
Hope it doesn't hurt the fishing.
Hope it doesn't make the beaches nasty. oh wait, they already are.
Perhaps this new refinery will not pollute, not be pathogenic, not be odoriferous. I get every single home owner here would go NIMBY against any refinery proposed in their neighborhood.
http://www.refineryreform.org/News_T...ly_080103.html
Of course, if any class of sick people went after a refinery owner, they'd be crushed in court by the refiner's legal resources. Exxon is still fighting/not-paying the Valdez spill.
An advantage of the Motiva refinery is that my friends in 20-miles-away Beaumont tell me the housing market when from flaccid to very tight this year.
The Gulf Coast beaches were polluted with oil tar decades ago by the off-shore drilling. We had to clean our skin with gasoline after swimming in the surf. If you got that oil tar on your swimming suit, just throw it away.
Cleaning your skin with gasoline to get tar off sounds really ing weird.
GO DAN GO!
Gotta love the Spurstalk Political Poster of THE YEAR!
I use body wash.
How many of these expansion projects are doubling capacity and surpassing the largest existing refinery in the U.S.? Yeah, that's what I thought......Ongoing/planned refinery expansions in the United States -- a partial list
Who cares so long as I can drive my SUV and be
confortable. That is what Gore and I say. I will plant
a tree or two next year. I will plant one for you if you
will pay me.....
....the resident troll is back....
Manny's just mad cause his weather shtick is tired and he's got no more game....
Did he ever have game? He just rode my coat tails.
Hey, if John Honore can do the weather, how much talent can that take?
Having been pantsed, you of course need to change your argument.
More stats:
All U.S. capacity increases under construction and planned through 2012:
Motiva (Anglo/Dutch/Saudi venture): 370,000 bpd
Other foreign-based refiners: 55,000 bpd
American-based refiners: 1,643,000 bpd
The actual totals will be higher; some projects don't have available capacity data yet for their projects.
(Source: Reuters)
How many of those 'American based refiners' are refining oil for gasoline consumption in the U.S. again?
Keep moving that goalpost Dan
In 1981 there were 324 refineries in the U.S. with an output of 18.6 million bpd and which were collectively operating at 70% capacity...Since 1981, 175 refineries have closed leaving the U.S. with 149 refineries with a total capacity of 17.3 million bpd...so all the oil industry is really doing is rebuilding capacity that they disabled due to constriction...
Nearly all of them, Dan. The numbers ES provided were for expansion projects by US-based refiners in the US.
The United States is an import market for gasoline. Are you suggesting that the US is building refining capacity so it can export gasoline to other markets? Where did you come up with this notion?
This is true. A lot of refineries closed, namely because they were not profitable to operate. That is what low-to-negative gross margins will do to a business. The reason there are so many expansion projects is because there is the lure of profits. By the way, Valero alone has expansion projects in the works larger than Motiva's in Port Arthur.
You are off-base in Yonivore-like proportions on this one (which is only a step higher than being off-base in AHF-like proportions).
I would say the opposite is true. "Announced refinery expansion" projects usually come to fruition at a 30% rate. There are more than 1.6 MMBPD of projects out there (can't remember off the top of my head), but not even half of them will be actualized. Still will be significantly more than Motiva's, however.
That's not what I'm saying at all....what I am saying is that oil refineries operate at very high capacities now, something in the 90% on average in order to meet demand ...that means any additional capacity that does come online will just barely keep up with the increase in future demand...so were never really getting ahead but just barely keeping up...the Motiva plant helps us get ahead of the game at least for the moment...The United States is an import market for gasoline. Are you suggesting that the US is building refining capacity so it can export gasoline to other markets? Where did you come up with this notion?
....the Motiva plant is built, not 'planned' and when it starts operating, it will be the largest refinery in the U.S...lowering the U.S. consumers vulnerability to unexpected refinery break-downs and 'unavoidable situations'....
If that's the way you want to spin it, go right ahead, but it only serves to lessen your credibility with anyone who knows anything about the market you speak of.
The Motiva plant isn't built. It is in the process of "being built". There are a number of other refinery projects that are also in the process of being built that significantly outnumber the Motiva plant in terms of barrels per day they will add to the US refining system. In the end of this process, the US will be long refining capacity, especially as alternative fuels mandates act as effective reductions in the demand for gasoline.
The Motiva plant, in addition to all the other refinery expansions, serve to "lwer the US consumers vulnerability to unexpected refinery break-downs". You can't just cherry-pick which ones are sustaining and which ones put the system "over-the-top". They are all responding to the same economic incentive. Motiva just happens to being doing there expansion in one location, where a company like Valero (with expansion projects ulatively larger than Motivas) has them spread out geographically (helpful to folks in California, who don't see any benefit from a refinery expansion in Louisiana). Cherry-picking, like you are doing, is like saying the taxes everyone else pays go to fund worthless pork, while the taxes only you pay go to serve noble purposes. It's just plain silly.
My advice to you is to give up on this wild goose chase while you still have a shred of dignity.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
