Should the Suns get rid of Nash?

[Findog]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/104663

The Suns might be on the verge of making a major move:

NBA sources say the Suns brain trust is split between those who want to give this team another shot at success, those who think it’s now time for a major move and those who are on the fence after only 24 games.

“If we’re ever going to be a championship team, we have to improve defensively,” is as far as Suns general manager Steve Kerr would go Sunday. “We’re watching this run of games against top compe ion (Utah, New Orleans, San Antonio and Dallas) very carefully. We’ve been talking about it but we talk all the time. Are there are concerns? Sure. I’d say we’re definitely in evaluation mode,” Kerr said.

I came across a comment on freedarko that proposes that rather than getting rid of Amare, Marion or Diaw, the Suns should get rid of their franchise PG:

http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2007/1....html#comments

I've said it before, but IMO if the Suns want to win a le they have to get rid of Nash. Nash has been at the helm of the highest scoring team in the NBA for 7 straight seasons now and has yet to even sniff a game in The Finals.

The Suns barely beat a Parker-less Spurs team the other night, and that doesn't bode well for them, because Parker can be an absolute demon if he's not well-covered, and with Nash on him you can bet he won't be. Phoenix's problem this year is that in addition to having no one to guard Parker, they now have no one to guard Duncan since they foolishly traded Kurt Thomas away. Call it a wash if you want, but I don't see B. Skinner doing anywhere near the job that KT did on Duncan last year in the playoffs.

With Duncan able to run riot on the Spurs that's gonna let Parker blow past Nash for one easy layup after another come playoff time, and that's if the Suns even get to play San Antonio. There's a lot of teams in the West with inside games this year and the Suns have absolutely nobody to play post defense. In addition to not having anyone to guard Duncan, the Suns are going to have that same dilemma if they face Utah (who guards Boozer?) or Houston (who guards Yao?), and it's looking like they might even have that problem if they face the Lakers again (who guards Bynum?). Phoenix better hope they get to play the Warriors, the Nuggets or the Hornets in the postseason, cause if they play a team who actually has a down-low scorer they're going to have problems.

So why trade Nash? Well it's right there in the longform article. You can't trade Marion or Raja to upgrade the D cause those guys are elite at those positions. If you trade Amare you better get a beast on both ends of the floor cause otherwise you're losing the one post threat on offense. Grant Hill's contract is too small to bring in anyone of impact in a trade. So who you gonna trade? Trade Nash. Trade him now while his stock is high before age takes his game over the cliff and kills the one thing the Suns are good at. You wanna keep running and gunning? Trade him for Jason Kidd and really rape the Nets in the process to do it (Kidd's all hot and bothered to leave NJ anyway). Trade Nash and dump Diaw and Marcus Banks' bad contracts on the Nets along with Eric Piatkowski for Kidd, Jamal Magloire, Sean Williams and Marcus Williams.

You don't want to trade Nash for Kidd? Find somewhere else to trade him. You'd think that you'd be able to net an absolute windfall if you traded Nash, and Phoenix should do it cause that Nash way of playing basketball is only good for winning regular season games but is pretty bad when it comes to winning championships. You gotta have defense and interior scoring if you want to win in the postseason and the Suns have a distinct lack of both. Even worse than lacking badly in those areas, Nash negatively contributes to those deficiencies cause he's absolutely horrid defensively, and all his dribbling precludes any kind of inside-out post game. Nash is a phenomenal player, but if one thing has been proven over and over the last 7 or 8 seasons it's that a team built around Nash can't win a le, no matter how many All-Stars you surround him with; because even though he might help pad their individual stats, he's not conducive to playing championship-style basketball.

[Findog]

One thing this guy gets wrong is that Parker and Nash rarely guard each other straight up. For another, Marion is not good at creating his own shot. Barbosa is not a true PG - he can get to the rim and he has a consistent 3-point shot but he can't run that offense. They flashed a stat tonight during the game that said that the Suns FG% with Nash in the game was 55% while they shot 40% while he was out. He clearly makes those guys better on offense. And they went on to say that for the season it was a similar percentage.

Having said all of that, how many PGs could run that Suns offense as well as Nash? Paul, Deron, Baron, maybe Kidd. And only Kidd is potentially available, and he doesn't have the consistent outside shot that Nash does. People flay the Mavs all the time for letting Nash walk, but what is always overlooked and forgotten is that they used his salary slot to sign Dampier and improve their interior D. Maybe they overpaid for Dampier, but he's a huge upgrade over Shawn Bradley and the Raefist, and the Mavs got better and went further in the playoffs without the two-time MVP.

They only thing that sucks about Nash walking for Dallas is that he strengthened a conference rival and they could've sorely used his poise and fearlessness in the last two playoff exits. But they also realized that there was a definite ceiling to what they could accomplish as a team defensively with both Nash and Dirk as their two best players. Nash will retire as a Sun, no question about it, but where can they get better defensively? Raja and Marion are good defenders, and they're certainly not trading Hill - he gives them a poise and maturity they lack outside of Nash, and they couldn't get a better player in exchange for him due to the low salary slot he takes up. I don't know who would want Diaw and his contract, so that leaves Amare, Barbosa and Nash as the three tradeable commodities. The freedarko commenter gets one thing right -- Nash has a very cap-friendly contract, he's at the height of his reputation and powers, and given his age, at a certain point he will almost certainly begin to decline.

[atxrocker]

this can't be a serious debate. SA will move manu before the suns will move steve. they know the role he plays. horrible ing move if they do.

[Findog]

this can't be a serious debate. SA will move manu before the suns will move steve. they know the role he plays. horrible ing move if they do.

The Suns of course aren't moving Nash, even if it was the right move to do, personnel-wise, their fans would riot. He does make all of his teammates collectively better on offense. Let's watch Shawn Marion try to score on something other than a put-back or tip-in. But that leaves Barbosa and Amare as their only commodities worth trading if they want to get better on defense, and Kerr has made it clear that's a priority.

[atxrocker]

suns will (should) keep amare, imo. they should try to get as close to equal talent or value back for barbosa if they decide to move him.

[sprrs]

Although I agree Nash is retiring a Sun, Nash for Kidd isn't completely Crazy, and would definitely strengthen the D at the PG position.

That leaves Amare and Barbossa as you said. For all his faults, Amare is still a force offensively and it would be difficult to get fair value in a trade. The only improvement I can see that would make any sense is Dwight Howard, but that's not gonna happen.

I don't think it's the players as much as the coach, though. The offense pretty much runs itself, so replacing D'Antoni with someone who will integrate a decent Defensive system into the team and stay out of the way on offense would probably be the best move for the Suns.

[Findog]

I don't think it's the players as much as the coach, though. The offense pretty much runs itself, so replacing D'Antoni with someone who will integrate a decent Defensive system into the team and stay out of the way on offense would probably be the best move for the Suns.

Rick Carlisle is sitting at home. So is Jeff Van Gundy.

As far as personnel goes, assuming it works under the cap, Amare for Artest might be just what the Suns need. Artest is like Terrell Owens or Randy Moss, he's a true frontrunner, and the Suns would be the ultimate situation for him in terms of making him happy. He'd get his touches and numbers on offense, while he would team with Marion to fortify and strengthen the Suns frontline on defense. I don't know where you'd move Hill though to make room for Artest, I guess Hill would have to come off the bench or move to the two and Raja would go to the bench. Amare meanwhile would be a marketable young star to renew interest in Sactown.

[lurker]

Yes, the Suns should get rid of their best player who they play like without.

[vicphoenix]

Those who think Nash is the reason the Suns haven't won a championship don't have a clue. What is the Suns biggest weakness? Those who follow the team know that the Suns are awful at rebounding. They lose to the Spurs in the playoffs because they get killed on the boards. Should Nash be responsible for the fact that the Suns can't crash the boards? The answer to improving the Suns is to get another quality frontline player who can rebound. Getting rid of Nash would be a huge mistake by the Suns because they don't have anyone to replace him. As for the suggestion that Nash could be traded for Kidd, it will never happen because of the following reasons.
1. Kidd was traded out of Phoenix because people were angry about the domestic incident with his former wife.
2. Kidd makes $20 million a year and Nash makes $13 million a year. The Suns would have to include another piece such as Barbosa to make the salaries work.
3. While Kidd could help with the rebounding, his awful shooting (37 percent this year) is a major problem.
4. Kidd's knees have limited his mobility. He isn't the defender that he was at one time.
5. Suns fans would revolt against the organization for trading Nash. Steve is one of the most popular athletes in Phoenix and the team benefits financially.

[diego]

if the suns could have got KG for Amare, then they are stupider than i ever thought. amare is by far the most expendable sun- bad knees/injury prone, low ball iq, struggles without nash/marbury to spoon feed him, foul prone/bad defender. if i were the GM i would have traded amare before KT, i would try and package amare + diaw, theyre both overrated.

[vicphoenix]

if the suns could have got KG for Amare, then they are stupider than i ever thought. amare is by far the most expendable sun- bad knees/injury prone, low ball iq, struggles without nash/marbury to spoon feed him, foul prone/bad defender. if i were the GM i would have traded amare before KT, i would try and package amare + diaw, theyre both overrated.

Kevin McHale told the Suns he didn't want Amare in return for KG. The Suns wanted to trade Marion to the Wolves but Shawn nixed that idea by saying he wouldn't resign with Minnesota. Ultimately, McHale never wanted to trade KG to another Western Conference team.

[vicphoenix]

Why doesn't Wild Yams at freedarko.com explain this if Nash is such a liabilty.
http://www.82games.com/0708/0708PHO.HTM

[ratm1221]

Dallas will take him back. He can be on our third string. We'll trade ya JJ Barea for him.
Let us know if this works.
Thanks.

[Armando]

Kevin McHale told the Suns he didn't want Amare in return for KG. The Suns wanted to trade Marion to the Wolves but Shawn nixed that idea by saying he wouldn't resign with Minnesota. Ultimately, McHale never wanted to trade KG to another Western Conference team.

From what KG has said in interviews he wanted to go to Phoenix if Amare was there. He was advocating a trade with Marion.

[Armando]

Maybe we should trade him for Mavs killer Wade and Haslem.

[DallasFan]

Maybe we should trade him for Mavs killer Wade and Haslem.

???

Personally, I would love to have Nash back in Big D.

[Armando]

???

Personally, I would love to have Nash back in Big D.

Nah I think Steve is fine where he is.