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Incompetence kills
Incompetence kills
I think the Welmaker law firm might just be getting a call. How the does the coroner figure out she's alive and EMS totally whiffs on this one?
daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn
Boss stands by medics
Web Posted: 12/17/2007 11:00 PM CST
Brian Chasnoff
Express-News
Four paramedics who responded to a head-on collision over the weekend did not treat a critically injured victim in a car that police said was struck by a drunken driver, Fire Chief Charles Hood said Monday.
Instead, the paramedics, working to "save the most savable victims," he said, took two others who'd been in the Honda Accord to Brooke Army Medical Center, leaving Erica Smith — alive, suffering from a head injury and in critical condition — inside the car, covered with a yellow tarp.
Officials believed that she was dead. However, she clung to life until 2 p.m. Monday.
About two hours passed from the time the wreck had occurred before a second wave of paramedics returned to the scene at Loop 410 near Rigsby Road to treat her, according to a police report. A medical examiner's investigator had been called to the scene to examine the body and noticed that Smith was breathing.
Standing before news cameras Monday, Hood spoke mostly in generalities, citing confidentiality laws he said prevented him from providing details about the incident that outraged at least one of Smith's relatives. Declining to clarify how the paramedics determined Smith's condition, he said paramedics generally check for vital signs, which can be compromised in cold weather.
The low temperature Sunday — the wreck occurred just before 4 a.m. — was 29 degrees.
"The paramedics, when they were doing their job, they didn't think they were missing anything," Hood said.
But according to a police officer familiar with the incident, police told paramedics at least twice that the woman was still breathing.
"They kept telling everybody, 'No, she's not. ... She'll die in a few minutes,'" said the officer, who requested anonymity because he is not authorized to speak about the case.
Smith, a 23-year-old senior at Texas State University, was at BAMC on Monday, where she died at about 2 p.m., according to the Bexar County medical examiner's office.
Kimberly McGuire, a cousin of Smith's, characterized the incident as a severe mistake.
"It is unfathomable to me that my little cousin sat, bleeding, under a tarp and in the cold while receiving no medical attention," McGuire wrote in an e-mail. "I can't help but wonder if her injuries would be less severe had she received the prompt medical treatment she deserved."
Emergency medical personnel often cite the "golden hour," the 60 minutes between a person's critical injury and the moment before the body begins to shut down. A nonfiction television show on Discovery Health Channel, "The Critical Hour," do ents such cases, showcasing the fast-action pace of medical attention in the first hour after a severe injury and the chances of survival as the minutes tick on.
Hood, who became fire chief in April, said he visited Smith's family at BAMC for half an hour Monday to express his sympathy.
"It was difficult, man. I was in tears," Hood said. "You can't describe the amount of grief in there."
Yet Hood would not accept responsibility on behalf of Emergency Medical Services, a branch of the Fire Department, for the apparent mistake. He said the incident is under review and the paramedics involved are expected to return to work Wednesday for their regular shifts. He said the review's findings likely would remain confidential in accord with current law.
"I don't foresee any discipline for (the paramedics)," Hood said, adding, "There's nothing to apologize for. We weren't driving the vehicle that hit the car."
The driver of the other vehicle, Jenny Ann Ybarra, 28, was charged with intoxication assault in the wreck and released Sunday from Bexar County Jail after posting $5,000 bond.
Police said Ybarra's gray Pontiac GS veered into an oncoming lane on Loop 410, striking the Honda Accord. Sabrina Shaner, 22, the Accord's driver, and back-seat passenger Amber Wilson, 22, suffered serious but non-life-threatening injuries.
All three people in the Accord were taken to BAMC. Police had said Smith was in critical condition Sunday afternoon.
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Some strong statements there...
Last edited by ZStomp; 12-18-2007 at 01:12 AM.
You know, if the officers said that, why didn't it make the police report?
http://www.ksat.com/download/2007/1218/14877270.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage
Before the first story was edited and in a previous story it says she was declared dead by EMS. Can someone be pronounced dead by Paramedics in Texas?
That sentence still doesn't make sense to me by the way.Erica Smith, 23, was believed to be dead by EMS officials, but was not treated because her injuries appeared to be fatal, the San Antonio Fire Chief said Monday.
It's not? The PD is so much under fire that I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't in there....PD don't want any part of that!
I believe so. I've handled incidents before where the paramedics time is used as the time of death (or pronounced time).....
The report makes no mention of the ME having to call back EMS. It simply says all three were transported to BAMC.
Yeah, that probably should read "...and was not treated... "
Damn, I'm glad that wasn't my call.
Triage is used on mass casualty incidents. As "First on scene medics" , usually 2 of them, they go through the injured rapidly to classify them in to 4 catagories. Green: "walking wounded" Yellow: can delay transport due to injuries are manageable for the time being, Red: critical, needing rapid transport and Black: dead or will be in just a matter of mins.
It sounds like 4 Paramedics should have been able to manage 4 patients with the assistance of SAFD which those guys have minimun EMT Basic certs.
Pronouncing onscene...
Paramedics can contact their online medical direction to pronounce a person onscene which contact info(Dr name, orders, TOD, etc) is do ented on pt report. In all cases that I have been onscene of a DOA. the online medical direction asked if a cardiac monitor confrimed asystloe in all the leads(wires).
Can't blame them for not wanting to be brought down in this matter.
Fixed it. Thanks, Gerry.
What you guys think of this quote?
"I don't foresee any discipline for (the paramedics)," Hood said, adding, "There's nothing to apologize for. We weren't driving the vehicle that hit the car."
There are some good Paramedics in SAFD EMS...but it is the bad ones that really throw a shadow on the department.
Rasho, when you guys make emergency calls do you have to wait for the police department to let you know that its safe to enter the scene?
It's like any job....there always bad employees.....There are some good Paramedics in SAFD EMS...but it is the bad ones that really throw a shadow on the department.
Negligence...abandonment could be argued, it depends who has the better lawyers in the case if there will be one....(settling out of court anyone?)
Page six of the report says "Items" 6 & 8 (driver and one passenger) were notified at 0350, while Item 7 has a time arrived time of 0555. I don't know what that other writing is, though.
If it is a crime scene...shootings, beatings,violence in the nature of the call...for the most part ...yes we wait till the LEO's clear the scene.
Traffic accidents...not unless a gun was involved/road rage....
BTW, Z, good to know you weren't the cop who got the broken arm in the traffic accident tonight.
Would love to stick around and discuss THIS topic, but I have to be up early for work.
Well, that became part of their procedures this year and it's irritating sometimes. I understand that for major violence calls (shootings/cuttings..etc), you guys should wait for LEO's... but we (I) have handled calls simple assaults where we get there- and after a few minutes ask our dispatcher to get EMS.
She does so- and we end up waiting another 10 mins- so we ask our dispatcher again. After a few moments, she comes back and says, "they were waiting for you to clear the scene..."
Are they serious!!!! I had a call for a guy hit with a bat on the head twice- and I asked for EMS 3 times and had to wait 15 mins for them. After I asked for EMS the 3rd time my dispatcher tells me- "They were waiting for you to clear the scene.." Oh my god! I asked you for 3 times- what do you think!
Thanks man. Do you know his name? It's scary at times when you're on the way to an emergency call and in a split second...well, you know.
Nope. I didn't get any identifying info from the scripts.
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