Time Magazine: The Clean Energy Scam

[Twisted_Dawg]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...725975,00.html

Good read here about the use of bio-fuels and how the devastation of rain forests in Brazil and Asia are actually releasing more carbon in the air, causing food commodities to e world wide as farmers divert their corn and soybeans to bio-fuel and generally what a disaster this is turning into.

[Clandestino]

lmao

[Don Quixote]

Not surprising.

As a fellow with an Environmental Science degree, I went to a college full of types who had big plans on how to obtain "sustainable" energy, cut greenhouse emissions, protect threatened species, etc. (It is not coincidence that the majority of these kids were neo-Marxists.) Relatively few of them gave much thought about how their big ideas affected people in Nigeria or Amazonia. But I'm sure they went to bed feeling better about themselves.

[RandomGuy]

Meh, ethanol isn't quite a "scam". It is turning out to have some consequences of the unintended kind.

But, hey, if using the word scam makes you feel better about your belief system, by all means...

[boutons_]

Corn ethanol, as practiced in the USA, is a scam because it exists only because dubya is throwing $50B at it.

Neo-marxists aren't burning rain forests to plant soybeans and sugar cane. Capitalists are.

[ChumpDumper]

Once we get the switch grass power plants working, watch out!

[boutons_]

There's not enough acreage in USA to plant enough switch grass to make a dent in demand for oil.

Dream on.

Reducing demand is the only solution. Let's add federal taxes to gasoline and diesel to pay for the Iraq oil grab, reflecting cost for gasoline that is now hidden. That will certainly reduce demand, pushing gasoline to European levels.

[PixelPusher]

Not surprising.

As a fellow with an Environmental Science degree, I went to a college full of types who had big plans on how to obtain "sustainable" energy, cut greenhouse emissions, protect threatened species, etc. (It is not coincidence that the majority of these kids were neo-Marxists.) Relatively few of them gave much thought about how their big ideas affected people in Nigeria or Amazonia. But I'm sure they went to bed feeling better about themselves.

Large scale ethanol economies are misguided and bad, therefore all attempts to obtain sustainable energy are bad and misguided.[/FALLACY]

[Don Quixote]

Large scale ethanol economies are misguided and bad, therefore all attempts to obtain sustainable energy are bad and misguided.[/FALLACY]

That's not what I was saying. We're all for sustainable energy. Our chief objection with getting our auto fuel from corn is that it is driving up the cost of food (significantly, and in poorer nations) and is debateable whether it comes with any environmental benefit. It certainly comes at a huge economic cost.

But even conservatives who support big oil are fine with clean, sustainable energy.

[boutons_]

"Our chief objection with getting our auto fuel from corn is that it is driving up the cost of food"

that's only a tiny reason why corn ethanol is insane. It wastes water, energy, oil, and produces a fuel with less energy density than gasoline. The energy equation is all ed up.

That the cost of corn, domestic and exported, plus that of soybeans, wheat, etc have shot up to historic highs, well, who cares about that? BigFarma, and subsidized US grain transport shipping, will make will make huge profits.

[PixelPusher]

That's not what I was saying. We're all for sustainable energy. Our chief objection with getting our auto fuel from corn is that it is driving up the cost of food (significantly, and in poorer nations) and is debateable whether it comes with any environmental benefit. It certainly comes at a huge economic cost.

But even conservatives who support big oil are fine with clean, sustainable energy.

You're not going to find anyone on this board who's for ethanol...I just found your little rant about "sustainable" energy su ious. If you're going to wax concerned about the consequences to countries like Brazil and Nigeria, you must also weigh present and continuing consequences of our traditional oil economy on the rest of Africa, the Middle East, Central America, etc., to say nothing of the non-traditional oil ventures like oil sands, shale, etc.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

ethanol was just to shut up the global warming alarmist and tree huggers for the time being. i hope theyre happy

[Wild Cobra]

"Our chief objection with getting our auto fuel from corn is that it is driving up the cost of food"

that's only a tiny reason why corn ethanol is insane. It wastes water, energy, oil, and produces a fuel with less energy density than gasoline. The energy equation is all ed up.

That the cost of corn, domestic and exported, plus that of soybeans, wheat, etc have shot up to historic highs, well, who cares about that? BigFarma, and subsidized US grain transport shipping, will make will make huge profits.

FRAME THIS!

I actuallly agree with Boutons!

[Wild Cobra]

ethanol was just to shut up the global warming alarmist and tree huggers for the time being. i hope theyre happy

I think you're right. Nobody listens to the people who do full circle thinking, and now the truth is being seen about ethanol. Several of us said ethanol was bad from the start.

Finally, after all these years of making ethanol blended gas, they finally acknowledge that cars don't get as good of mileage on it! In Oregon we have a "winter blend" of 10% or 15% Ethanol Every year, I told my congressman how ridiculous this was because we just use more fuel, so the value of it burning cleaner in older cars doesn't matter. We all use more fuel!

Ethanol only has about 60% the energy as gasoline! To make the best of it needs higher compressions engines like 14:1 rather than the 8.5:1 we commonly have now.

It's a gas, gas, gas...

Oregon decided to go to "oxygenated gas" for the winter years ago before we have efficient computer control systems on cars. They had better results with the blend over plain gas for the tested cars. My God man... the 90's car technologies changed everything but... it's a to change any government program (handout to corn farmers) when the truth is revealed.

[inconvertible]

hahahahaahha

[some_user86]

Ethanol was a smokescreen. The corn lobby did a brilliant job duping idiotic legislators, just as the lobby duped them with cane sugar tariffs. There was not a single, reasonable scientist out there who claimed that corn-ethanol would solve the energy problem. The chemistry just doesn't work. Nuclear fission is a good temporary solution, but fusion is the one where all research funding should be headed (not bio-fuels).

[ChuckD]

I'm beginning to think that the only solution to reduce global energy usage is a Super Bird Flu, and a huge mortality rate, like 40-50%. People don't want to conserve, they don't want to cut back, they don't want to do with less. The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

[boutons_]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3694554.ece

etc,etc.

[Don Quixote]

The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

Okay. You first.

[ChuckD]

Okay. You first.

After you...

[Don Quixote]

Hey ... I'm not the one saying we need population reduction. You are. So practice what you preach. We need video evidence of this.

(I keed, I keed ...)

[BradLohaus]

I'm beginning to think that the only solution to reduce global energy usage is a Super Bird Flu, and a huge mortality rate, like 40-50%. People don't want to conserve, they don't want to cut back, they don't want to do with less. The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

You should email the Club of Rome. They might work with you to carry out a 12 Monkeys style solution.

We know Ted Turner would be all for it... just don't touch his FIVE kids.

Nothing reveals the hypocricy of the lunatic elite like environmentalism.

[velik_m]

I'm beginning to think that the only solution to reduce global energy usage is a Super Bird Flu, and a huge mortality rate, like 40-50%. People don't want to conserve, they don't want to cut back, they don't want to do with less. The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

Or we could just get rid of old cars and start using more fuel efficient ones. I kinda prefer this solution to mass extinction one.

FRAME THIS!

I actuallly agree with Boutons!

I didn't have any frames, i hope my sig is sufficient.

[BonnerDynasty]

I'm beginning to think that the only solution to reduce global energy usage is a Super Bird Flu, and a huge mortality rate, like 40-50%. People don't want to conserve, they don't want to cut back, they don't want to do with less. The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

In recent news, a new treatment for the Asian Bird Flu has been discovered in corn extract. Scientists made this amazing discovery while using the crops to produce bio-fuel.

oh !

[DarrinS]

I'm beginning to think that the only solution to reduce global energy usage is a Super Bird Flu, and a huge mortality rate, like 40-50%. People don't want to conserve, they don't want to cut back, they don't want to do with less. The only solution is less people, then. A lot less.

Didn't you hear? According to Ted Turner, we'll all be cannibals in 30-40 years because of global warming.

That will take care of some of the population. Another significant part of the population will be either killed by the massive floods that occur when the sea level rises by 20 feet (thank you, A. Gore) or, will be devoured by blood-thirsty polar bears that will have to migrate south when all the polar ice melts.

Good day.