Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Suns Apr. 9

[timvp]

What a pitiful performance by the Spurs. Entering the day with a decent shot at attaining the number one seed in the Western Conference, the Spurs instead rolled over and died against the Suns. Now San Antonio has to fight just to have homecourt advantage in the first round.

The Phoenix Suns came into San Antonio and were smarter, executed better and were more physical than the Spurs. Basically, the Suns just out-Spursed the Spurs. No matter what runs the Spurs made, the Suns just kept executing and eventually the Spurs sputtered. The Suns entered with a gameplan and worked that gameplan flawlessly.

The Shaquille O’Neal trade has worked out wonderfully for Phoenix. Against the Spurs, the Suns are now the bigger, stronger and more athletic team. And when O’Neal plays hard all game, they are also more talented and just as determined. A lot of supposed NBA experts ripped Steve Kerr and the Suns but the trade is looking brilliant. For the first time in the Steve Nash Era, the Suns actually have a legitimate chance to win a championship. In this game particularly, the only thing that kept the Suns from really destroying the Spurs was foul trouble for O’Neal and Amare Stoudemire.

My hopes of the Spurs winning a championship this season have reached a new low. This was a game the Spurs really needed – and the result was blowout win for the Suns. The Spurs tried step on the gas at various points in the game but there was just nothing in the tank. It’s like the Spurs let their guard down after their recent winning streak and now that they are trying to turn it up a notch, they are having problems doing so.

Overall, this is a very disappointing turn of events. Not too long ago, it appeared as if the Spurs had begun to figure things out. Now it’s back to square one with only four games to go in the regular season.

-Tim Duncan did not have a good game. Honestly, he got abused by O’Neal when it mattered on both ends of the court. O’Neal deserves some credit because when he wants to, he can guard Duncan better than anyone ever has. But Duncan should have played a lot better than he did. One of his main problems right now is his whining. Instead of manning up and playing, he’s looking for calls every other time up the court. He also has to come with a better plan of attack against O’Neal. No-look fade-away hooks from ten feet out aren’t the answer. Defensively, Duncan wasn’t doing much to stop O’Neal or Stoudemire. On the night, Duncan finished with 23 points, ten rebounds and two blocks, on 9-for-21 shooting from the floor. Numbers look decent but his play was severely lacking.

-Speaking of severely lacking, that also described Manu Ginobili’s performance accurately. He tried to up his level of aggression tonight but he just wasn’t playing well. To the naked eye, one would assume Ginobili is worn out by watching him play. Hopefully Ginobili isn’t showing signs of having to expend more energy than usual during this regular season. The explosion that was in Ginobili’s legs early in the season isn’t there and he looks unsure of himself on his outside shooting. I do also think that Ginobili has scaled back his effort level in recent weeks and that has hurt his overall output. Whatever the cause, Ginobili needs to find his game again before the playoffs arrive. If he doesn’t, it’s going to be a long summer for the Spurs. Against the Suns, Ginobili had eight points, four rebounds and four assists, while shooting 3-for-12 from the court.

-Of the big three, Tony Parker played the best – but that’s not saying much. He appeared to be the only Spur not intimidated and would drive the ball to the basket. The problem was he didn’t do it enough. The way this game was going, Parker needed to take 25 to 30 shots for the Spurs to win. Duncan and Ginobili were off and no one else was getting clean looks. This was a perfect time for Parker to keep shooting until the Suns started sending help. At that point, the Spurs might get a few open looks from the perimeter. On the night, Parker had 20 points and four assists on 9-for-17 shooting from the field. Parker didn’t stay in continuous attack mode and that was yet another problem for the Spurs on this night.

-Bruce Bowen defended Steve Nash all game and did a pretty good job. Nash wasn’t able to find many free shots for himself. He had ten assists, which is about par for Nash. However, Nash had zero turnovers and that was a huge plus for the Suns. Bowen didn’t let Nash explode but he also didn’t rattle him too much. Bowen is best against Nash when he flusters Nash and forces mistakes. Offensively, Bowen wasn’t helping matters as he hit only 2-of-8 shots from the perimeter.

-You don’t hear a Spurs fan say this much but Michael Finley needs to shoot the ball more. And honestly, it’s not his fault. Finley had to take and make difficult shots tonight. He finished 4-for-5 in 29 minutes, with only one of those shots being clean looks. The problem is the team is playing at such a slow pace offensively that opposing teams haven’t been forced to help and no mismatches are being created. The team needs to play faster and that will allow shooters like Finley to get more open looks. On the night, the Spurs only had nine three-point attempts as a team. That number is less than half what they average and it points to the opposition being able to get back and set their defense.

-What part of Fabricio Oberto not being able to guard O’Neal does Pop not understand? Oberto. Can. Not. Guard. Shaq. When O’Neal has Oberto on him, the best possible outcome for Oberto is if he can flop his way to an offensive foul. Otherwise, O’Neal is going to get an easy shot, draw a foul, injure Oberto or do a combination of those three things. In 23 minutes, Oberto had six points and four rebounds, while shooting 3-for-8 from the court. He shouldn’t have played as many minutes as he did, especially with how much he was being dominated.

-Ime Udoka played 26 minutes and finished with two points, six rebounds, two assists and three steals. Udoka was asked to guard Boris Diaw for a lot of the game – inexplicably, really. Diaw is too tall and too thick for Udoka to guard, especially on the low post. Offensively, he wasn’t getting many open looks for the same reasons Finley wasn’t getting open looks. On the whole, Udoka played pretty well but he was put in a lot of situations where he couldn’t succeed.

-I really wish the Jacque Vaughn of a couple weeks ago would return. Once Pop gave him back his job full-time, Vaughn played great basketball for a two-week stretch. Now he’s playing poorly again. I’m not sure what changed but Vaughn needs to find that mojo before the playoffs begin.

-Kurt Thomas missed all four of his shots in his 13 minutes of action but he was playing well. In fact, I think Pop should have played him a lot longer. He was the only defender who seemed to bother O’Neal. Everyone else, Duncan included, was getting dominated by O’Neal in the low block. Offensively, I could live with the misses. They were good, clean looks that he’ll knock down more often than not. The only times in the game the Spurs weren’t the softer bunch were the minutes Thomas was on the floor. Pop dropped the ball by not playing him more.

-I though Pop had one of his worst coaching performances of the season. First of all, Oberto cannot guard O’Neal. I’m not sure what it’s going to take for Pop to realize this. O’Neal has owned Oberto since Oberto arrived in the United States. That is not changing anytime soon. Thomas should be on O’Neal. If not Thomas, then Duncan.

Second of all, has Pop not watched Diaw play before? He was putting a small on Diaw like Diaw is actually a threat to hit a jumper. Making adjustments because Boris freakin’ Diaw enters the game is a mistake. Keep a big on him and force him to shoot jumpers all night long. You put a small on him and suddenly he wakes up because he can go in the low block and post up.

I’ve also never been a fan of putting Bowen on Nash all game long. Let Parker chase him around the first two and a half quarters and then throw Bowen at him as a change of pace. The Spurs have a long history of success against Nash-lead teams when Parker defends him. Bowen on his for 48 minutes is an unnecessary gimmick.

Pop has to do something to get this team running again. This walk-it-up-the-court Spurs won’t be able to win a playoff series. They are playing like it’s 2001 all over again. Once they begin running, the offense will open right back up. Right now, they are making the game too difficult and they aren’t getting any of their trademark wide open three-point attempts that the Spurs have feasted on for the last decade.

Defensively, Pop wasn’t helping the team succeed. Allowing the Suns to shoot 51.9% is unacceptable. A large part of the problem was Pop forcing the team into bad matchups (Oberto on O’Neal, Udoka on Diaw, etc.).

The bottomline is this was a horrific loss. The offense was listless. The defense was gimmicky and weak. I still believe in this team but this was an ominous sign with the playoffs looming around the corner.

The Spurs have been extremely streaky as of late so hopefully they are getting their last bad streak out of their system. However, it’s officially time to buckle down, sack up and get the last four games on the schedule. It starts Wednesday in a must-win game against the Seattle Supersonics.

Believe.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs are running FAR too much isolation offense as of late. And its the reason that they get shut down so easily. Look at their assist numbers, they're horrible. Overall the last few games against WC playoff teams have had them looking completely outclassed. I don't want to give up on this team, but in complete honestly nothing of with the exception of the Houston game has inspired confidence over the past month.

The Lakers game is a huge huge huge game. They need to do something in that game to show they're for real.

[polandprzem]

I can't agree more on that one Derren

Spurs looked lost like they did against Suns the prevoius game. Same situation

The problem is the team is playing at such a slow pace offensively that opposing teams haven’t been forced to help and no mismatches are being created.

That is what I said when spurs got spanked by Suns last time.
It realy does not help the shooters and frankly dammit we have only one shooter on our team. Good he can hit some shots if he would be off the spurs could be the worst team of all 8 west teams.
We also have not good ball movenment and with zone it disappears and how can you break a zone without people making outside shots?

I can't remember much of a good p&r again. Maybe because I woke up (being exhaused the day before with sickness) at 3:42am to watch my lovely spurs giving up.
I don't know but I think that playing against Phoenix you must use as much screenrolls as possible esp. against Shaq.

And the most important thing.
I must admitt that Suns look better with Shaq against Spurs on the short period of time he was with the team (diferent story is Suns with Shaq all year). We are hre and now - Suns are rolling, smiling and joking, looks motivated - big part of it is Shaq and Hill.

Dayumn

[timvp]

The Spurs are running FAR too much isolation offense as of late. And its the reason that they get shut down so easily. Look at their assist numbers, they're horrible.

All the problems I see on offense point to a lack of energy (or laziness, which classification you prefer). The pace is incredibly slow. And then even if they have TD posting up, there is no movement off the ball. Duncan has one freakin' assist in the last four games. That points to a lot of people standing around watching him operate.

Running more and more movement in the halfcourt would do wonders for this team. Ball movement is a bit of a problem but the bigger problem is player movement.

Overall the last few games against WC playoff teams have had them looking completely outclassed. I don't want to give up on this team, but in complete honestly nothing of with the exception of the Houston game has inspired confidence over the past month.

The Lakers game is a huge huge huge game. They need to do something in that game to show they're for real.

True. This upcoming Laker game will tell a lot. If the Spurs lay yet another egg, it's really time to start panicking.

[Quasar]

First Utah, then this disaster in a must-win game! A loss such as this coming so late in the season is extremely disappointing and severely dampens the championship hopes of many fans.

It surely had an effect on the confidence of many of the players too!

CIA Pop?!?

I couldn't watch the game as usual, so I'm just theorizing here. It may go a long way into explaining this... Pop can't be so stupid that he thought that those defensive matches and subs utions he did would work.

Could he be thinking that the Spurs are not winning it with the lackadaisical way they've been playing? It does seem that the Spurs are still in auto-pilot mode... These guys are in for a shock if they continue playing that way. And perhaps Pop thought he'd shock them prematurely to avoid a loss in the first game of the playoffs!

Barry - hurry back!! Our offense needs you!

[timvp]

CIA Pop?!?

It's too late in the season for Pop to be pulling any CIA maneuvers. This is real.

I wish it were CIA Pop, though

[DAF86]

This upcoming Laker game will tell a lot. If the Spurs lay yet another egg, it's really time to start panicking.

I'll get worry if we play like this in the playoffs. I don't care about regular season games. Pop doesn't like to show anything on these games. Besides the big three will play together a lot more minutes in the playoffs.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm fairly certain we can forget about Barry doing anything this year. The same can be said for Horry. There's no time to acclimate them in. We're going to have to win what we have out there right now.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm fairly certain we can forget about Barry doing anything this year. The same can be said for Horry. There's no time to acclimate them in. We're going to have to win what we have out there right now.

I think Horry will play. I doubt Barry will.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop can't be so stupid that he thought that those defensive matches and subs utions he did would work.

See 2006 Western Conference Semifinals.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll get worry if we play like this in the playoffs. I don't care about regular season games. Pop doesn't like to show anything on these games. Besides the big three will play together a lot more minutes in the playoffs.

These aren't normal regular season games. For all intents and purposes each game against a WC playoff team at the moment IS a playoff game. Not only that but if you look at the way the Spurs finish regular season they are almost always on a run and not floundering the way they are now.

I honestly cannot remember the last time the Spurs consistently played this poorly in 2nd halves. Its not typicaly the first half that does them in, but the droughts that come after halftime. I don't know if this is an indicator of a lack of energy and legs due to age, but the thought is really starting to cross my mind.

[objective]

Pop and Oberto is just the latest example of how stubborn Pop can be. Usually people only notice that stubbornness when he sticks someone in his doghouse and never lets them out, but when the stubborn kicks in it can hurt the team in other ways.

[DAF86]

These aren't normal regular season games. For all intents and purposes each game against a WC playoff team at the moment IS a playoff game. Not only that but if you look at the way the Spurs finish regular season they are almost always on a run and not floundering the way they are now.

I honestly cannot remember the last time the Spurs consistently played this poorly in 2nd halves. Its not typicaly the first half that does them in, but the droughts that come after halftime. I don't know if this is an indicator of a lack of energy and legs due to age, but the thought is really starting to cross my mind.

Parker was playing great until pop took him out for the usual rest. He was about 8 minutes out of the game. Do you think that is going to happen in the playoffs?

[roycrikside]

The problem is that the offense has gotten incredibly predictable. When Timmy and Tony are in the game, they take almost all the shots and no plays are run for Manu and really he doesn't even get to touch the ball very much. Usually Parker just dribbles around, waits to see if a crease will open up to drive and if there is, great, and if not, he just dribbles around some more, let's the clock run down to 2 and fires up a jumper.

Or more often, we run the play for Duncan in the post, but our post entry is so difficult because everyone knows it's coming so they front him, double him, do whatever, and most of our guys SUCK at throwing a post entry pass, especially Fin. By the time Tim touches it, there's like 8 seconds left and not too much time for him to pass it to an open guy. , most of the time the defense wants Tim to shoot the ball and doesn't even double because he catches it in such a non-advantageous position for him, it's like "go ahead, do your dinky 15 foot fadeaway turnaround jumper, we won't double."

The only time Pop runs plays for Manu anymore is when Vaughn is in there with him. Our pace is excruciatingly slow and we suck to watch right now. We were playing a lot faster and getting a lot more high quality scoring shots for everyone when the offense was being run through Manu more, but it's just not happening. Tony can't make the same decisions and he certainly can't make them as fast. The only guy he can create for is occasionally Bruce in the corner.

I know nobody in the forum, especially people in charge, like Manu vs. Tony posts, but you tell me why the offense is so boring and slow right now. All we're doing is watching Tony Parker dribble dribble dribble or Tim try to back people down and taking every possession down to the gun.

It's embarrassing to play this way, especially at home. You are literally putting your fans to sleep with all this god forsaken holding of the ball and dribbling. Give the ball to your best decision maker. Even when he can't shoot well he can get other guys lay-ups and in rhythm open shots.

Anyone who is watching these games and thinks the only difference is Manu's effort is a damn blind fool. It's not the same offense, it's not the same distribution and it's certainly not the same amount of touches. He's gone to 3rd banana again and that hasn't worked all year, certainly not against good teams. Every time we've had a decent winning streak or we've beaten a good team this calender year it's been because Manu was 1st or 2nd in the team in attempts. Now we change everything? It makes no sense.

Is Tony's ego that god damn fragile where he can't play as the 3rd guy? He did it fine in 2005. Now he thinks he's some star? He either has to be the 2nd guy or he's gonna pout and not be able to play?

This team isn't '06 and it isn't 07. It needs Manu to shoot more and play more. The role players are old and they are incredibly limited offensively, more than ever. Manu needs to take a bigger role for the team to win, as has been the case all year. If you try to run the '08 offense the '06 way, well you get '01 results.

[roycrikside]

Pop ruined everything in the 3rd quarter. Starting Manu was dumb and playing Tony all 12 mins was dumb. I don't know why he thinks Tony is like Allen Iverson. He's not used to playing all 12 mins of a quarter and he's certainly not conditioned to do so. He gets fatigued by the 9 min mark like everyone else. He should have stuck to the 1st half rotation because it was working fine. He played Tony the whole quarter and wouldn't you know, he made a bunch of mental and physical fatigue mistakes he normally wouldn't make.

I don't blame Tony at all, it's all on Pop. He's coaching like an arrogant dumbass.

[Kori Ellis]

@ roycrikside

So freakin predictable. When has Tony ever pouted about being the 3rd guy?

Things have certainly changed for Manu. But it's not all on Pop/Tony/Tim. A part of it is on Manu.

Manu is obviously in funk and he looks like he doesn't have any explosiveness in his legs. He shot 7-8 times in the first half. That's not less touches than he normally gets. In tonight's game, you can see Tony passing it Manu several times, and Manu passing it right back. He obviously just didn't have it this game.

[polandprzem]

Pop ruined everything in the 3rd quarter. Starting Manu was dumb and playing Tony all 12 mins was dumb. I don't know why he thinks Tony is like Allen Iverson. He's not used to playing all 12 mins of a quarter and he's certainly not conditioned to do so. He gets fatigued by the 9 min mark like everyone else. He should have stuck to the 1st half rotation because it was working fine. He played Tony the whole quarter and wouldn't you know, he made a bunch of mental and physical fatigue mistakes he normally wouldn't make.

I don't blame Tony at all, it's all on Pop. He's coaching like an arrogant dumbass.

Tony had a lot of games playing 12 first minutes of the game

[Kori Ellis]

Pop ruined everything in the 3rd quarter. Starting Manu was dumb and playing Tony all 12 mins was dumb. I don't know why he thinks Tony is like Allen Iverson. He's not used to playing all 12 mins of a quarter and he's certainly not conditioned to do so. He gets fatigued by the 9 min mark like everyone else. He should have stuck to the 1st half rotation because it was working fine. He played Tony the whole quarter and wouldn't you know, he made a bunch of mental and physical fatigue mistakes he normally wouldn't make.

I don't blame Tony at all, it's all on Pop. He's coaching like an arrogant dumbass.

This part I agree with. I told LJ the same thing during the game. It's bad coaching. Tony needs to come out around the 9 min mark in the first and the third.

[DAF86]

Pop has to oblige Gino to take shots like he does with Tony, Manu needs to think a little bit less and let it fly to regain confidence

[Kori Ellis]

Pop has to oblige Gino to take shots like he does with Tony, Manu needs to think a little bit less and let it fly to regain confidence

Manu is allowed to take as many shots as he wants. He has the green light and has for years.

[DAF86]

Manu is allowed to take as many shots as he wants. He has the green light and has for years.

I know that, but he is passing on too many shots 'cause he's lacking confidence. Pop needs to OBLIGE manu to take those shots.

[MannyIsGod]

I really doubt Manu has a lack of confidence.

[roycrikside]

@ roycrikside

So freakin predictable. When has Tony ever pouted about being the 3rd guy?

Things have certainly changed for Manu. But it's not all on Pop/Tony/Tim. A part of it is on Manu.

Manu is obviously in funk and he looks like he doesn't have any explosiveness in his legs. He shot 7-8 times in the first half. That's not less touches than he normally gets. In tonight's game, you can see Tony passing it Manu several times, and Manu passing it right back. He obviously just didn't have it this game.

Not verbally, but certainly physically. When Tony's third in shot attempts he's usually not shooting a very good percentage and his defense is poor and the announcers say stuff like "he's floating out there" and all the other stuff we're used to. It just seems like if Tony isn't our best or 2nd best player in a given game, he plays absolutely terrible. He can't just be consistently above average, every night.

Then again, maybe that problem is affecting Manu now as well. He's been the team's best or 2nd best player for months, and now he's not used to playing as the 3rd option and he's lost.

Whatever, either way the offense looks horrid. And their chemistry together is bad. I know for a fact they got into a little verbal exchange in the Portland game so they're not exactly thrilled with each other on the court at the moment.

[DAF86]

I really doubt Manu has a lack of confidence.

What then? he lost all of his skills?

[timvp]

How the is it always Parker's fault when Manu has a bad game? No matter what happens, you get Manu Fans coming onto the forum blaming Parker for Manu playing poorly. Has Manu ever had a bad game simply because he played bad? Or is that not possible?

Manu played nine and a half minutes without Parker in this game. He went 1-for-5 from the floor. What is the excuse for those nine and a half minutes? Ginobili is getting the same amount of touches he has always gotten when the big three has been healthy. Not as many touches as when Parker was hurt but that's to be expected. But Ginobili isn't doing much lately with or without Parker on the court. If Ginobili were setting the world on fire when he played without Parker, that'd be one thing. But that's simply not the case.

Ginobili's aggression level just isn't what it was earlier in the season. Now when he gets the ball, it seems like his first option is hitting Oberto after Oberto has slipped a pick. That's a pretty good play ... the first dozen times they do it. After that it becomes pretty obvious what is going to happen.

Ginobili has been at his best this season when he looks to attack the rim coming out of the gates. Then he gets his defenders sagging on him and he can hit threes. If they start sending help, Ginobili then can find open three-point shooters. Recently, Ginobili has come in thinking pass. He needs to come in and begin firing right away. He's not Kobe in that he can ease his way into a game knowing he'll get plenty of shots down the stretch. He has to cause havoc right away.

Parker has been far from flawless recently but to blame him for Ginobili's struggles not only doesn't make sense, it's just not statistically accurate.