The similarities abound.
The Celts had a big 3, as do the Spurs.
The Celts won 3 les in 6 years, the Spurs 3 in 5 (4 in 9).
Both had a coatail riding coach who did little if anything to help get the les, but who definitely screwed up (and continues to screw up) chances for more les and at least one repeat.
So the subject again comes up of (gasp) trade one or more of the Big 3.
The Celts chose not to, and in all fairness the death of Lenny Bias and continuation of KC Popavich as coach were huge contributing factors to their downfall. Still, they hung onto Bird, McHale and Bob Parish til they had much less trade value and the team was run into the ground. Classy? Well I'm not arguing it was not nice of them to let those three choose to retire as Celts, yet at what point does team become more important then sentimentality? (I think Bob Parish could have stayed if he wanted to, i know he left for Charlotte then went on to play a small role but contributing role in two more les with a real coach on the Bulls.)
Point being, they got n-o-t-h-i-n-g in return for the Big 3 and drifted into suckhood. Instead, they traded the youngest of their core, Danny Ainge who went on to start in like 3 more Finals. For Joe Klein. Can you say "dumbass front office"?
Spurs have likewise chosen to hold onto the Big 3. Bruce Bowen was forced to stay out (shut your pieholes you "he brought us Jefferson" morons, he could have afterwords been signed for minimal after he was bought out by Milwaukee) so that Mike Finley could continue his affair and marriage with Pop, Ian M could rust on the bench and other 10 11 and 12 bench players could sit uselessly while Pop continued his tyrist with Matt Bonner.
Lewie Scola is decided to be bypassed so that Mike Finley and Matt Bonner can hold down the PF spot instead 2008-present. In return for Scola, we get Greek guard who stays in Greece, Phoenix gets Gordan Dragavic (sp) who torches for 23 in a playoff quarter. Nice.
Again, at what point in time is team more important then sentimentality?
Make that a le contending team.
Trade one of the Big 3 (gasp!). Well, with Popazit at the helm, what good has it done to hold onto them since the 2007 Championship? Would OKCity have gone for a Parker for the #2 pick (Kevin Durant)? I'm sure OKC would have at least considered it. That's just one possibility. Do you have others?
Don't get me wrong, i would have much rather seen all of the Big 3 kept, along with Bowen being brought back and a real coach at the helm who would have used Blair and other benchies appropriately. It didn't happen, it ain't gonna happen. So, trade one, two of the Big 3? Or become like the Celtics and lose for 20 more years? Frankly all three of the Big 3 have dropped in trade value quite a bit since summer 2007.
Last edited by Fabbs; 05-10-2010 at 09:07 AM. Reason: because punctuation counts to Kori, and I'm being sensitive
With all due respect to Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, hopefully Splitter can come in here and make the kind of impact those two great players could have made.
Celtics had extremely bad luck with what happened to those two players and with the lottery for years and years.
Hopefully Spurs fans don't have to deal with that long of a drought.
The Celtics also had a case of extreme bad luck with the whole Len Bias situation. If Bias doesn't overdose the celtics might have won a couple of more championships. The spurs have been very lucky picking up George Hill and Dejuan Blair so late in the Draft.
Remember how Tony Parker improved every season for the first 5-6 seasons of his career? Expect the same from George Hill. Parker was also very inconsistent in the playoffs his first few seasons. Expect Hill to get better and better in both the regular season and playoffs. Blair will also improve next season. If he finds a jump shot he could be deadly.
In my opinion there are three things the spurs can do to become le contenders again.
Priority number one this offseason will be convincing Splitter to come over. Adding a defensive minded Center is exactly what the spurs need. Splitter is a great pick and roll player that will only give the spurs another option offensively.
I know I'm asking for a lot, but the spurs need one more steal in the draft at Pick 20. If the spurs scouts can find either a knockdown three point shooter or a decent shooter/good defender on the wing that would be great. I'm not asking for the spurs to find another Bruce Bowen type player who can lock players down because it's not going to happen. Just someone who will work hard, hustle, and slow players down defensively not named Keith Bogans. The more likely option would be to find a great shooter. I think this draft has a lot of depth and the spurs can find a very good player at 20. I also wouldn't mind if the Spurs picked a good big man there if one were to slip through the cracks like Blair. You can never have enough big men.
Lastly, and this is a prayer, the spurs need to wait out free agency and let one of these free agents be left without a dance partner. This is one of the best free agent classes that I can remember and there is going to be some very good players left without a team once all the cap room runs out. I'm not saying the spurs will end up with someone like Lebron, Bosh, or Wade, but Ray Allen would not be to hard to believe. Finding someone committed to winning that will fit in the spurs system for the LLE could be what puts the spurs over the top and back into contention.
So the spurs need to
1. Convince Splitter
2. Get another Draft steal
3. Wait out Free Agency and find the right cheap fit.
This could happen, it's not to hard to believe unlike all these Trade Parker for (insert probable mistake here) trade whispers. Besides the spurs don't need to create more depth problems by trading away their only true point guard.
So my hope is that the spurs are not the 80's celtics, but just a continuation of the Spurs we know and love. Breaking up the chemistry now would be disastrous and would only put the spurs further from number 5. GO SPURS GO
Bias was an absolute BEAST. Splitter can come in here and be a tremendous contributor and still not make the impact that Bias (likely) would have.
THAT...is bull . You know nothing about basketball.
True that. Fabbs is nothing more than an idiot.
The more obvious flaws in the OP:
1) celtics being without a championship for 20 years is not the same as being "bad" for 20 years. They had plenty of playoff teams in that span. Lots.
2) was only marginally connected to hanging onto mediocrity by keeping their aging core. Sure, they would have "improved quicker" if they killed themselves and completely rebuilt.
3) Spurs will do the same that Utah did: lose their top players (one day); be really bad the next year, draft well, and start to build a contender again, slowly, over a decade. That is how MOST teams actually do it.
3) It also had to do with picking poorly and getting screwed out of the top pick one year (duncan).
Stopped reading here.Both had a coatail riding coach who did little if anything to help get the les, but who definitely screwed up (and continues to screw up) chances for more les and at least one repeat.
You forgot a 4th thing. Convince David Stern to waive the salary cap rules that will let us sign a free agent since most of the MLE will go to Splitter and we have no cap room to sign any sort of free agent except for minimum contracts to fill out a roster.
it doesn't matter if we have cap room. no one wants to come here.
Bull . Pop created the culture that kept Duncan here and sought out talents like Ginobilli and Parker.
And, Mahinmi did not rust on the bench. He plain sucks.
I like this post...It really clearly shows that our team close too heading of to the sunset , not now but in the years to come....
Let's face it man.....it's gonna happen that we are gonna go through the BS of 21-61 and sub-par seasons. But that's a reality and we have be prepped for it.
I had my share of seening the Spurs just outright suck post Gervin and even during the Robinson era, while ing teams like the piss gold Lakers and the gay Celtics, and the gambling Bulls...were wining....that time sucked...but the Spurs will get back there again...the question is when?
1. So you are yet another board advocate for "Lower the Bar!"?
The Celts never sniffed the Finals from 1988-2008 save 2001-2 when they made the EC Finals. They either missed the playoffs entirely or got punked in the 1st round 17 of those seasons. That is bad.
2. If the Celts offered Bird, McHale and Parish after the '87 season you think the offers they would have gotten would have killed them?
Likewise, the Spurs offering say Parker for the #2 pick (turned out to be Durant) or similar deals for Duncan or GNob would in no way shape or form "kill themselves and be a complete rebuild". All depends on what pick/who was offered. Entirely possible the Spurs could get much better. Now, with all three on decline who knows?
3. Likewise it was the only way San Antonio got back on top (the Duncan ping pong ball) and prompted Pop to coatail. So just as Boston was unlucky the Spurs were lucky.
Same. What a load.
I highly doubt the spurs can get allen, but I must say this is the best post about the offseason I have read so far.
Obviously, the Spurs should have traded Tim Duncan in 2006 and Ginobili in 2008 to get something in return for the Big 3, but also should have held on to Bruce Bowen no matter what.
And Pop should have been fired in the summer of 1996. I know he wasn't coach of the Spurs yet, but people really should have known.
Everyone knows that bob hill was a far superior coach.
I am sorry sir, but you don't know tha' you're talkin bout
Try again later
Your ascertion:
Everyone knows Bob Hill is the only choice the Spurs could have made since 1996 onward til now. No one else could be considered. It's either Bob Hill or Pop, no one else.
Why don't you stop this silly, tired, misleading fabrication?
Pardon me, John Lucas. Wait Jerry tarkanian... Tom thibedou!
keep up your bs campaign of lies however.
Yes because Duncan could not be traded in 2008, it had to be 2006.
Ginobili for Kevin Durant and more would have been a disaster, yes indeed.
Bruce Bowen should not have been brought back after Milwaukee bought him out. He would have probably took minimal, but keeping Mike Finley, Ratliff and not playing the 10-13th bench players was soo much better.
Lame.
Says T_Porkle as he is lieing.Pardon me, John Lucas. Wait Jerry tarkanian... Tom thibedou!
keep up your bs campaign of lies however.
Frustrated much?
So wait, now you just assume that Seattle would have traded the #2 pick for Parker or Ginobili and then blast the Spurs for NOT having made a trade that is entirely a product of your imagination?
Now that's a convenient strawman to bolster an argument.
Do you have any proof that the Spurs didn't inquire about Seattle's pick in the Oden/Durant draft and somehow balked when the Sonics made an unconditional offer of the #2 pick for either of the Spurs minor stars?
It's all in his own mind. Ala Duncan shouldve been traded already
I'm pretty sure that the Spurs could have gotten Lebron James or Dwyane Wade for Tim Duncan in 2008, when he was undoubtedly at the height of his abilities.
Just think, between the Duncan for Lebron trade and the Ginobili for Durant trade that were clearly available to the Spurs in the last few years, they could have a starting lineup with Lebron James, Kevin Durant, AND Tony Parker, plus Dejuan Blair and -- well, Fabbs, probably.
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