If the Spurs draft 11th

[objective]

Here's an interesting thing about Pat I've noticed from following his social media:

He doesn't follow thots. He follows and supports women's basketball. Unlike the many other prospects I see on social media where theyre following hundreds of thots, Pat is different. I think where your is, usually is where your head is. So this bodes well for Pat... Being half serious here.

Sounds good to me. Feels like every other month there was some Murray on social rumor that turned out to be nothing, that stuff gets old.

[objective]

So if Williams and Precious are off the board, maybe Nesmith also ... I'd be okay with Vassell.

I wouldn't love it. I don't think he's a SF. But it's more of a case of drafting the tallest most skilled player left.

Let me also add this about Vassell and his ability to play SF or not:

Pop had no problem playing Marco at SF. Or running Marco out there with Forbes and Mills. Or having Mills cover Durant.

Whatever his shortcomings with size, strength, or possibly length may be, I think Vassell should be an upgrade defensively at the least over Marco.

And I've long argued that Marco is an overrated shooter, so I think Vassell could hold his own there as well, at least on spot ups. I don't remember his movement shooting at all.

I'd rather have Williams and I think I'd rather have the energy and raw athleticism of Achiuwa and hope he can be refined.

[mo7888]

I literally can't think of a reasoning structure that'd be worse than that. If the Spurs used the 11th pick on a guy they could stash so they could save a bit of money, I might legit stop being a Spurs fan. That would be like Ultra Instinct Miluntov

I'd be ok with stashing him (or some other player) if we somehow ended up with a send pick in the 20's... but 11 is to valuable for that, especially where we are as a rebuilding team.

[spurspl]

due to tankathon we are one spot behind obi toppin...thats a shame. trade up or trade down

[Dejounte]

Let me also add this about Vassell and his ability to play SF or not:

Pop had no problem playing Marco at SF. Or running Marco out there with Forbes and Mills. Or having Mills cover Durant.

Whatever his shortcomings with size, strength, or possibly length may be, I think Vassell should be an upgrade defensively at the least over Marco.

And I've long argued that Marco is an overrated shooter, so I think Vassell could hold his own there as well, at least on spot ups. I don't remember his movement shooting at all.

I'd rather have Williams and I think I'd rather have the energy and raw athleticism of Achiuwa and hope he can be refined.

Agreed

[Chinook]

I'd be ok with stashing him (or some other player) if we somehow ended up with a send pick in the 20's... but 11 is to valuable for that, especially where we are as a rebuilding team.

I should clarify: If it's a case like with Saric where the guy is highly regarded but isn't able to come over for a year or two, and you think he's BPA, you can do it. But if you're thinking "Well we're up against tax and need to find a way to shave off some salary. Oh I know, let's take our highest pick in almost a quarter-century and pick a guy we don't have to bring over right away," it's literally indefensible. Like my brain would completely melt just seeing it. It was bad enough when the Spurs pissed away their first in 2015 for Milutinov to save $300-500k (when they ended up spending more than that on Boban anyway). But like, just cut Lyles. Just let Poeltl walk. Just literally anything else besides pissing away a lottery pick.

And I probably don't need to say it, but the guy being 18 really doesn't mean anything to me. I'm about to make a case for the Spurs not needing to worry about drafting a compliment for their young players in another post, but they also need to stop looking at guys they hope put it together three or four years down the line.

[objective]

I literally can't think of a reasoning structure that'd be worse than that. If the Spurs used the 11th pick on a guy they could stash so they could save a bit of money, I might legit stop being a Spurs fan. That would be like Ultra Instinct Miluntov

The other big risk is the European scheduling might really throw a wrench into any plans the Spurs had about stashing.

Some of those leagues are on pace to still start on time. Guys are going to be playing because they need to get paid before they can even sign a rookie deal. And not just for 20-21, it could bleed over into 21-22, then things really get screwed up because if a euro is any good after 2 years they'll just wait until 3 to not be locked into the rookie salary scale. Saric kept his word about coming over, but for every Saric you have a Splitter.

[Chinook]

If people would stop calling Vassell the "SF we need" and instead the "Guard we need" maybe I'd be more fine with it. People need to be honest. You might as well call Vassell a guard because he defends guards, not forwards.

I don't think the goal should be to worry about what the team needs. They are still at the point where they should be collecting talented players. Like it or not, the Spurs have been starting 6-7 guys at SF for almost two decades outside of the RJ years. There's no reason why the Spurs can't play Vassell there. Ideally the team could get a defensive four who can guard bigger forwards. But that doesn't have to happen in this draft. If Vassell works out and Walker or Johnson don't then you still get your perimeter trio set up. If everyone works out, you can make a trade or get a good bench culture going. Regardless, you just go for the PF next year. Or maybe you draft someone like Reed or Tillman in the second round, and they step into that role. The team shouldn't be thinking about filling holes at this point, because that implies they have a structure around those holes. They don't yet have that, even if it looks like one could be forming with White and Johnson.

[DAF86]

off. Youre not going take away from me the time ive spent watching games. My wife will ing tell you how pissed she is with me spending time examining players. Just because i watch condensed games doesnt negate my ability to scout or evaluate players better than you. Now that really pissed me off. you. you. you. Ive spent too much time on this to be put on the level of most people who just watch highlights. Youre a piece of to go that low. ass. you and your vanilla ass takes. Ive made more useful observations in this thread than your stupidass. I said Florida State had a full court press before you did. The bar isnt set at watching full games. I did the ones last night to appease you. i regret it now since clearly your ing eyes are biased towards one thing and one thing only... never admitting youre wrong. Your ass sets the bar at watching full games because youre a dumb who gives shallow ass statements and crowns yourself when you become right a tenth of the time. You dont take away the countless hours of time Ive spent on this. You just ing dont. If I knew your dumbass in real life, man....

Dude, you have some problems.

[Chinook]

The other big risk is the European scheduling might really throw a wrench into any plans the Spurs had about stashing.

Some of those leagues are on pace to still start on time. Guys are going to be playing because they need to get paid before they can even sign a rookie deal. And not just for 20-21, it could bleed over into 21-22, then things really get screwed up because if a euro is any good after 2 years they'll just wait until 3 to not be locked into the rookie salary scale. Saric kept his word about coming over, but for every Saric you have a Splitter.

That's true. I think the NBA will do something about that to allow teams to commit to overseas prospects during the season. Maybe they'll let them commit money against the following season's cap, or maybe they'll let them just bring the guy over in the middle of the season. Either way, it's tricky, and I'd have negative interest in stashing a first-rounder.

[objective]

I don't think the goal should be to worry about what the team needs. They are still at the point where they should be collecting talented players. Like it or not, the Spurs have been starting 6-7 guys at SF for almost two decades outside of the RJ years. There's no reason why the Spurs can't play Vassell there. Ideally the team could get a defensive four who can guard bigger forwards. But that doesn't have to happen in this draft. If Vassell works out and Walker or Johnson don't then you still get your perimeter trio set up. If everyone works out, you can make a trade or get a good bench culture going. Regardless, you just go for the PF next year. Or maybe you draft someone like Reed or Tillman in the second round, and they step into that role. The team shouldn't be thinking about filling holes at this point, because that implies they have a structure around those holes. They don't yet have that, even if it looks like one could be forming with White and Johnson.

There probably are some guys in the second round that will be decent gambles. Reed for sure, Killian Tillie if his body doesn't collapse. Woodard as a defensive SF. I kind of like Malik Fitts who could go undrafted. Cassius Stanley is like a Jonathan Simmons type, not a SF but fun to watch dunk. N'Doye or Eboua. Maybe even Kalaitzakis, though without doing too much research into him I'm su ious of a Greek who is loaned out to outside of the motherland to play.

[objective]

And a caution for my opinions such as they are:

Usually, my picks aren't that much better than the next guy, if at all. I wanted Gary Payton II over Dejounte Murray, I had huge, huge problems with Murray's defensive IQ. Now, what I didn't know was how bad a coach Romar was, because I don't watch college ball until the draft. And Zach Lowe in the last month was praising Payton II as a premier point guard defender so I wasn't all the way dumb. I thought Brogdon was a SG, most of the scouting clips on YouTube had him as a SG so I never looked at him.

I had Bell and Bolden over White. I still liked White, but I had Bell and Bolden first. I've learned since then to appreciate how much size and length really matters at the NBA big level, and of course Bolden had not just the small sample size for shooting but the personality red flags for quitting on UCLA. I also didn't think White had any chance of playing as a rookie no matter how good he was because Pop.

Now, for this year, I think I'm better informed for 2 reasons: cloud DVR recording every college team, and the covid shutdown increasing the amount of time I have to check those games out. Normally Spurs fans have what, 0.5-2 months to check out prospects? This year we have months and months to go over things. I think I've watched more this year than any other year and there's still like 2 more months until the draft.

[pad300]

I'm going to go through more videos and post them here to prove a ing point until someone shows me Vassell is a player who is good at guarding >6'7" and >220 lbs...

I have my own opinions about who we should draft, but you realize that you have a "method" problem here: how many >6'7" > 220 lbs players, on the perimeter (ie not playing as PF/C), in college? Answer: almost none, because we aren't talking grown men here... I'm pretty sure Kawhi was under 220 at the time of the draft; he's grown some since. Guys that big, Pat Williams in the current draft for example, are played as PF's and C's...

[Dejounte]

And a caution for my opinions such as they are:

Usually, my picks aren't that much better than the next guy, if at all. I wanted Gary Payton II over Dejounte Murray, I had huge, huge problems with Murray's defensive IQ. Now, what I didn't know was how bad a coach Romar was, because I don't watch college ball until the draft. And Zach Lowe in the last month was praising Payton II as a premier point guard defender so I wasn't all the way dumb. I thought Brogdon was a SG, most of the scouting clips on YouTube had him as a SG so I never looked at him.

I had Bell and Bolden over White. I still liked White, but I had Bell and Bolden first. I've learned since then to appreciate how much size and length really matters at the NBA big level, and of course Bolden had not just the small sample size for shooting but the personality red flags for quitting on UCLA. I also didn't think White had any chance of playing as a rookie no matter how good he was because Pop.

Now, for this year, I think I'm better informed for 2 reasons: cloud DVR recording every college team, and the covid shutdown increasing the amount of time I have to check those games out. Normally Spurs fans have what, 0.5-2 months to check out prospects? This year we have months and months to go over things. I think I've watched more this year than any other year and there's still like 2 more months until the draft.

Ditto. This is why you are much more respectable than that bag. I've made my share of bad takes as well and I learn from them every year. Last year I had Isaiah Roby, Nicolas Claxton, Eric Paschall, Bol Bol, Darius Bazley as players I wanted over Keldon. I can dig up the thread where I was putting these guys in a tier list. It may be because I didn't want to look at players that were undersized as a SF. So same reason this year, except I've spent my time on Vassell whereas with Keldon I didn't.

Main thing I learned last year was not center my evaluation of players around their statistics in college, and to pay more attention to their current set of offensive / defensive skills. Kawhi already had most of the moves he had now in college, it was just obviously raw and unrefined. Derrick White's already had this capability because he was doing it in college (he had good stats but if you watched him you could see his skills were translatable)

[Dejounte]

I have my own opinions about who we should draft, but you realize that you have a "method" problem here: how many >6'7" > 220 lbs players, on the perimeter (ie not playing as PF/C), in college? Answer: almost none, because we aren't talking grown men here... I'm pretty sure Kawhi was under 220 at the time of the draft; he's grown some since. Guys that big, Pat Williams in the current draft for example, are played as PF's and C's...

There was quite a bit last year: Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter, Sekou, KZ Okpala, Eric Paschall.

I think this year is an outlier... Not many standard size forwards who play on the perimeter this year.

[pad300]

There was quite a bit last year: Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter, Sekou, KZ Okpala, Eric Paschall.

I think this year is an outlier... Not many standard size forwards who play on the perimeter this year.

Certainly, this year, there aren't many of them... Last year,
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-dr...-measurements/

Sekou was in a pro league in France (and got drafted on freak size measurements basically), Hunter and Paschall were PF's (and although Hunter wasn't measured at the combine, I'm not to sure he was 220 - I'd say borderline). Okpala and Reddish were both under 210... after spending a pre-draft process trying to bulk.

[pad300]

There was quite a bit last year: Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter, Sekou, KZ Okpala, Eric Paschall.

I think this year is an outlier... Not many standard size forwards who play on the perimeter this year.

Certainly, this year, there aren't many of them... Last year,
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-dr...-measurements/

Sekou was in a pro league in France (and got drafted on freak size measurements basically), Hunter and Paschall were PF's (and although Hunter wasn't measured at the combine, I'm not to sure he was 220 - I'd say borderline). Okpala and Reddish were both under 210... after spending a pre-draft process trying to bulk.

[exstatic]

I literally can't think of a reasoning structure that'd be worse than that. If the Spurs used the 11th pick on a guy they could stash so they could save a bit of money, I might legit stop being a Spurs fan. That would be like Ultra Instinct Miluntov

You may have to do that, then. This is no longer a playoff team. Other than the time late at there tenure at the Alamo Dome, the Spurs have ponied up and paid the tax when they had to, because they were contenders. That’s no longer the case. They’re still a small market team, though. That fact will never change.

He’s not Mulitinov. Kid takes the ball off the glass and brings it up the floor, and he should. He’s got the handles for it. He’s 7’0” and has a 7’3” wingspan. He blocks shots, rebounds, and shoots the ball pretty well. Tankathon as him at #10 on their big board.

[Dejounte]

Certainly, this year, there aren't many of them... Last year,
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-dr...-measurements/

Sekou was in a pro league in France (and got drafted on freak size measurements basically), Hunter and Paschall were PF's (and although Hunter wasn't measured at the combine, I'm not to sure he was 220 - I'd say borderline). Okpala and Reddish were both under 210... after spending a pre-draft process trying to bulk.

I think whether SF or PF was the position they played is not that relevant...Hunter, Paschall being listed as PF when the role they played would be of a perimeter forward in college and it translates to the NBA.... I think it would just be semantics at that point. Now the weight thing, sure. Maybe I should reduce the criteria to 210 lb? I dont know... Bottom line is, i don't think Vassell would be as effective against these types of players and there's not enough evidence that he has. Match Vassell against Eric Paschall for example and I think he would get destroyed...

We need a 3.5 better than we need a 2.5 (though Vassell is probably just straight up a 2)

I think the current Spurs would benefit more from an improved version of Rudy Gay (one who can play defense) vs a Danny Green. That's my opinion.

I'm not saying Pat Williams is Rudy Gay, but he would probably be the true "next man up" to Rudy similar to how Keldon is likely the "next man up" to DeMar. He would slowly take that role on the current Spurs. Given how much of a black hole and dumb player Rudy can be at times, that would be a HUGE improvement.

[buttsR4rebounding]

You may have to do that, then. This is no longer a playoff team. Other than the time late at there tenure at the Alamo Dome, the Spurs have ponied up and paid the tax when they had to, because they were contenders. That’s no longer the case. They’re still a small market team, though. That fact will never change.

He’s not Mulitinov. Kid takes the ball off the glass and brings it up the floor, and he should. He’s got the handles for it. He’s 7’0” and has a 7’3” wingspan. He blocks shots, rebounds, and shoots the ball pretty well. Tankathon as him at #10 on their big board.

This is who I think the Spurs will target at 11. Pop will not pass on the chance to scream at someone in Serbian.

[exstatic]

I should clarify: If it's a case like with Saric where the guy is highly regarded but isn't able to come over for a year or two, and you think he's BPA, you can do it. But if you're thinking "Well we're up against tax and need to find a way to shave off some salary. Oh I know, let's take our highest pick in almost a quarter-century and pick a guy we don't have to bring over right away," it's literally indefensible. Like my brain would completely melt just seeing it. It was bad enough when the Spurs pissed away their first in 2015 for Milutinov to save $300-500k (when they ended up spending more than that on Boban anyway). But like, just cut Lyles. Just let Poeltl walk. Just literally anything else besides pissing away a lottery pick.

And I probably don't need to say it, but the guy being 18 really doesn't mean anything to me. I'm about to make a case for the Spurs not needing to worry about drafting a compliment for their young players in another post, but they also need to stop looking at guys they hope put it together three or four years down the line.

Okay, do that, and you’re sitting on only 11 players, and you’re still at $115M in salary, with two more slots to fill, and you’ve dumped an elite screener, defender, former lottery pick, and LMA replacement sometime in the next 10-12 months. Oh, and you still have to pay one more guy, minimum, who won’t be as good as Lyles, because you’ve decided that $5.5M is expendable.

This is a ty draft, and it’s our bad luck that this is our lottery year. I’m sorry to say that there’s no savior at 11, no super wing. Barring that, I don’t have a problem with a top 10 talent spending a year in Europe as opposed to Austin, and on our cap.

Look on the bright side: he ain’t 6’3”.

[DPG21920]

If Spurs want a Top3 pick, they could trade with the Hornets.

Derozan, #11 -> Batum, #3

Hornets need a SG (Derozan sign&trade), a SF (good options at #11) and a C
Batum has a player option and would be off the books after this season. With the 3rd pick the Spurs could go for a valuable young big and could also sign&trade Poeltl to the Hornets for a pick.

I agree with CHA being a potential trade partner. Regarding this, going from Batum to DeRozan (so getting the better player and taking the extra year of a deal) is worth 3 for CHA if they want to “win now”.

We shouldn’t have to give up 11 for that. But overall, I think a deal can be done with CHA/DET/NY/ORL

[Excessive Egotist]

I'm confident one of Toppin, Okongwu, or Wiseman will be available at 11. Three bigs won't go top ten, and a few wings/points will move up draft board.

[ace3g]

Bounce & Brains: The Off-Ball Movement that Helps Make FSU's Patrick Williams So Good

https://www.si.com/college/fsu/baske...deo-highlights

[Chinook]

You may have to do that, then. This is no longer a playoff team. Other than the time late at there tenure at the Alamo Dome, the Spurs have ponied up and paid the tax when they had to, because they were contenders. That’s no longer the case. They’re still a small market team, though. That fact will never change.

He’s not Mulitinov. Kid takes the ball off the glass and brings it up the floor, and he should. He’s got the handles for it. He’s 7’0” and has a 7’3” wingspan. He blocks shots, rebounds, and shoots the ball pretty well. Tankathon as him at #10 on their big board.

The issue isn't that the can't afford him. They can. They absolutely can. There's no universe in which they can't. Under no cir stances should the team want to stash their first-rounder. It should literally be the guy they hope is the best player. No other contract on the team is worth getting in the way of it. As I said below, if it's the right player and that player can't come over, that's one thing. Even then, as Objective said, it's dicey and should be Plan Z.

Okay, do that, and you’re sitting on only 11 players, and you’re still at $115M in salary, with two more slots to fill, and you’ve dumped an elite screener, defender, former lottery pick, and LMA replacement sometime in the next 10-12 months. Oh, and you still have to pay one more guy, minimum, who won’t be as good as Lyles, because you’ve decided that $5.5M is expendable.

This is a ty draft, and it’s our bad luck that this is our lottery year. I’m sorry to say that there’s no savior at 11, no super wing. Barring that, I don’t have a problem with a top 10 talent spending a year in Europe as opposed to Austin, and on our cap.

Look on the bright side: he ain’t 6’3”.

The draft isn't ty. That's just the perception of it. Every draft has good players coming out. Even that "horrible" 2013 draft had two HOFers, another All-Star, a borderline All-Star and multiple other max players or solid rotation players. And that's the hindsight worst draft, not the worst draft in terms of expectations. The Spurs need to find the good players in the draft, not just punt because they think it's a crap shoot. We as fans can think that. It's their jobs to make it work.

As far as the money goes, the tax line is projected at $132 Million. They'd easily have enough space to fit everyone in. As you said, the Spurs are a non-playoff team, so why do they care that they have some more holes? If they are really that bad, they should be looking to move guys for parts, which will fill up the roster spots without adding much salary. Moreover, that range is enough to where they don't need to let both Lyles and Poeltl go to get under the tax (they don't actually need to let either go if they don't want to use the MLE).

It's bonkers, man. Of course Lyles is expendable if the alternative is stashing a lottery pick. To say otherwise just doesn't make sense. I don't hate him, but he's just a guy. Hopefully the Spurs draft a PF at 11 and just start him anyway. Push comes to shove, I'd rather keep Lyles and move on from DeRozan, but letting him go along with letting Forbes and Beli walk isn't the worst thing in the world.