It never fails to amaze me what a negative view people in this forum hold on the Spurs - and how they completely and utterly disregard context when discussing how other teams are so much better than us. Do the Mavs have a brighter future? Yes, probably. They also have been ever since Dirk left, haven't won a chip since '11, and tanked for the #3 pick that ended up being Luka. The Pels are a similar example - being for years, they lucked into Anthony freaking Davis, paired him with All-Star DeMarcus Cousins, and still couldn't win , and had to trade AD away. Only now do they look like they have a nice core that could make some noise - yet they haven't even made the playoffs, and their star Zion looks dangerously close to a career-altering injury with that size.
The Rockettes, if Harden leaves, are absolutely poised to be worse than the Spurs - this isn't even supposed to be a question. It's not even about the picks they could get for him or whatever; they're still stuck with WB's contract and will lose assets dumping him, have bad contracts with money tied to over-the-hill vets like Gordon or Tucker, and have absolutely no young talent to speak of. Ben Simmons, by far the best they could get for Harden, is a very flawed player and probably doesn't get them to the PO's by himself - and even then, making the playoffs is far from what I'd call "a great future".
I get it - RC is a drunkard, Pop is senile, all our young guys will amount to nothing. What is stopping us from being for years, tank our way into a superstar, and being in the position of the Pels or Mavs in a few years? Why are you so fixated on the right now, when you've been enjoying Spurs playoff basketball for the better part of two decades already? It's unfair to ask for continuous, ever-lasting excellence. And even then, I agree with Dejounte - the league changes, fast. These teams whose futures you salivate over, could very well end up back where they started with a bad move or two. Just looking at the Sixers and the botched Process should be proof enough.
i wish I had your optimism. I see us following the footsteps of the post Lombardi Packers or post Red Celtics/Jerry Lakers. When one person has that much influence on an organization, it’s hard to be successful once they leave.
For me, all we have is Pop and RC. To lose our real replacements for both to other organizations killed us. Continuity sounds good but we don’t have it. We have too much change which is just as deadly as too little change
Ok, that bolded part is peak Spurs fan en lement. Let me tell you - you are lucky to be naive enough to think the Spurs have bad ownership. Literally. The Holts have never skimped on the tax, have afforded le teams and have never pinched a penny at the teams' expense. You want bad ownership? Look at Fer ta right now, so concerned about his bottomline that he runs one of the best GM's in the league out of town, after gutting a le-contending team, and wants to gut it even more to avoid the luxury tax. Look at Dolan or Jordan, overruling their GMs to make stupid draft picks and trades that don't lead them nowhere. Bad management? What for? The Gasol contract?
It's cliche, but so very true - most Spurs fans wouldn't last a season following the Knicks, or Wolves, or Suns. My god.
We don't know if "we don't have it". For all we know, a lot of training is going on behind the scenes for the next Pop and RC. Both Pop and RC love our current players. They love DJ, they love Keldon, they love White. This team is their child. They're not going to them over and waste their careers. I'm certain they have a solid transition plan, we just to wait and see what it is.
Wait, I missed this reply.
Saying you're on the PG train, and saying a PF prospect fixes "zero" issues for us, are abysmally different things, my guy. With the hole that we have at the frontline, you tell me we can draft a perennial 10/7 guy with outside shooting potential - and you're saying no to that? What? It's an #11 pick, what's your expectations? Kira Lewis is rumored to go in the top 10, from what I've heard. As much as we could use another primary initiator, it's not ALL that the team needs, and the draft is certainly not the only way to find those players. As for Smith's critiques - defense isn't only staying in front of guards on PnR (even then, Spurs have already told him to work on lateral quickness, which he's doing), and I don't see the weirdness in his shot (I'd agree if we were talking Halliburton, but Smith's release is pretty "normal" for a big with a high release point), though I guess that's arguable.
Also, I don't see why we can't have Lonnie (who already was using his speed and athleticism to create assists for teammates in the bubble) or Keldon (who's got a strong dribble and penetration game, plus good vision) can't grow into primary initiatiors. Your argument relies on our young guys not getting even a tiny bit better, and well, I just disagree I guess. And I say again - there's no reason we can't draft the bigs that we're lacking, then trade for a primary creator like White is. Or draft him next year, or the next one... It's not like we'll be out of the lottery next season, tbh.
I just meant as far as leadership and knowing how to run a franchise go. Right now the kids are letting PATFO do their thing but once Pop retires, it’s on the kiddos to run the ship. No more mommy or daddy or Pop holding their hand.Ok, that bolded part is peak Spurs fan en lement. Let me tell you - you are lucky to be naive enough to think the Spurs have bad ownership. Literally. The Holts have never skimped on the tax, have afforded le teams and have never pinched a penny at the teams' expense. You want bad ownership? Look at Fer ta right now, so concerned about his bottomline that he runs one of the best GM's in the league out of town, after gutting a le-contending team, and wants to gut it even more to avoid the luxury tax. Look at Dolan or Jordan, overruling their GMs to make stupid draft picks and trades that don't lead them nowhere. Bad management? What for? The Gasol contract?
It's cliche, but so very true - most Spurs fans wouldn't last a season following the Knicks, or Wolves, or Suns. My god.
So according to the brainwashed apologists, we should disregard virtually all of the (many) teams with a current brighter future because of the past and the fact that things can change fast. Even by their paltry standards, this is a new low.
You're either being facetious or have been under a rock the past 3 years.Bad management? What for? The Gasol contract?
Leave it to TiDiot 21 to butt in a conversation and be the pompous he is by shaming people who believe in the team. Get off the pedestal you're on and stop being an arrogant prick. You're not better than anyone just because you criticize the team. That doesn't make you intelligent, it makes you a fool.
1. It's a message board. If you don't want it public, then PM.
2. Get a sense of humor, you raving lunatic.
3. Look up the word hypocrite, crybaby.
4. You're a fool for drinking the front office's Kool-Aid and buying into Spurs mystique. They lucked into a dynasty and have done nothing but look incompetent since the moment it ended.
What part of my comment makes me brainwashed, or an apologist? Be specific. Or is it just the general outlook of not being absolutely, thoroughly, depressingly negative about the state of the Spurs at every turn? There's a saying in Spanish - "a la derecha del Diablo, son todos santos", meaning, compared to the Devil, everyone's a saint. Being even slightly positive about the Spurs' outlook makes me a saint in this case, I guess.
My point was - why should I care that the Mavs or Pels right now look like they have a better future, when they've been dog for years and years, while we continuously enjoyed deep playoff runs and rings? You speak of the past 3 years, do you really think that's a long time for the league? The Kings haven't made the playoffs in a decade and a half. Be real. Yes, I'd love to have Luka Doncic or Zion on the team, but I'm not short-sighted enough to mouth-water over them, whilst ignoring the years of true awfulness that it took their respective teams to get them. Your comment is actually a great example of my point - the Spurs have missed the playoffs for just one season, and already posters in here talk about the team like there's no future, no direction, no hope. What the ? Talk that when we've missed them for 5 years whilst whiffing on every one of our draft picks in the meantime.
I mean, or don't.... Think what you will. It's not like you'll be penalized for saying stupid in an online forum. You should just be aware that it's, well, stupid . I say it again: most Spurs fans, probably including you, wouldn't last a year following the Knicks, the Wolves, the Suns. Those are franchises that truly don't have a future or hopes.
Lastly, yes, I was being facetious, but to be honest, for every "wrong" that the Spurs have done in the short-term, I can one-up you with an even stupider move by other teams. It's a never ending game, and the bottom line is that no team is perfect. And yet Spurs fans here, instead of being grateful to the FO and the team for decades of continued success and rings, are -slinging the very people who made it possible once the wheels fall off.... I'd say it's sad, but it really isn't. Just en lement, all around.
Thinking you can luck into two decades of continued success is the most foolish thing I've read this month. There's a picture of you next to the word "en lement" in the dictionary, my guy. But now I kind of get it... I guess, if you just attribute every good FO move, trade, scheme, and plan they've made over 20 years to just sheer "luck", and then assume it's run out for the Spurs, your impressively negativistic outlook is explained. That's one mystery solved.
have a superstar on your team, which didn't happen for the first time in its history in the last season.
Well, to be honest, owners being too involved in the basketball side of things isn't really common - and when it is, it usually isn't good (see Jordan and the Hornets for the easy example, or Dolan). So I'm not really expecting the Holt kids to be any more involved than they are now. The question, then, becomes - how will the Spurs' way of doing things change after Pop and RC are gone? In the sense that, right now, Pop as a coach and RC as a non-GM executive, have way too much input on personnel decisions. It's proved to be a good thing in the past (well, seeing this thread, I guess it'd depend on who you ask), but there's no indication that this over-involvement can work out for other people that come into place.
I'm really iffy on Wright. I feel like he hasn't gotten a true chance to prove himself, with both Pop and RC having that power and "antiquity" or "veteran" voice over him. I see him in a similar way than Nash coaching with MDA as an assistant - Wright learning the ropes, with more experienced people by his side teaching him and having an unusual amount of input for their roles. I don't think we'll truly see what Wright can do (for better or worse) until one or both Pop/RC retires. So I also don't understand people's hatred of him. Yes, he's unproven, but so was Nick Nurse when coming into the Raptors, and he turned out to be a far better coach than Casey ever was. We also have to remember, Pop too was once unproven and inexperienced - and that didn't work out so bad (again, I guess it depends on who I'm asking on here...).
I'm not ready yet to be pessimistic about the Spurs' future. Besides the obvious fact that we don't have a true star on the team right now, I really don't see a reason to be negative... We have our picks, we have young players, we have flexibility both in personnel and money-wise, we have a lot of options, a good culture, and a good reputation as a team. All important things that many other teams don't have and would kill for. People are too quick to drown in a glass of water, IMO.
All of it, especially the parts I addressed, namely where you pretended the Gasol contract was an outlier in recent years.
Why should you care about the past in a discussion that's about the future? These teams have centerpieces and tons of assets, the Spurs have neither and have wasted the past few years not attempting to so they could squeak into the playoffs and get summarily dismissed.
What you apologists and casuals don't get is, it's not about being able to handle losing (there was plenty last year and plenty more to come), it's about wanting to see a clear direction in the process which should eventually breed hope. Real fans are willing to critique the team when they make moves that are absurd the moment they're announced and sit through 60 loss seasons to get to that.
They didn't make it possible, the all time player/core did and the second they were gone, what they built fell apart. These idiots were just the beneficiaries of it, like every other front office/coach that's been fortunate to win championship(s).
First off, I'll say I hate the "apologist" shtick. They're a sports organization, I don't need to be an apologist or whatever for anything that they do, and it's not somehow better to be overly critical of them than the opposite, and vice-versa. Weird mentality to have - you're not better just because you're bitter at the FO and criticize their every move. We get it, people see the glass half full, or half empty, you're looking below the table just to see no water at all. I'd rather be a bit optimistic when I haven't been given reasons not to be.
The Gasol contract, I mentioned because, while not a good move in hindsight, is FAR from representing true "bad management" or "bad ownership". Sometimes, teams try things and they don't work out (remember Pau got injured? You might have legitimately erased it from your mind, tbh). There's a wide gap between that, and a truly bad FO like the examples I've mentioned. But I have a feeling that you're so thoroughly convinced that the Spurs are the worst FO in the NBA by a mile, that nothing I say will resonate. I'll skip this point, then.
I care about the past, because you're looking at the absolute RIGHT NOW, with no consideration to the context of how things have turned into what they are today. Yes, the Pels' future looks better right now - now go ask any of their fans whether they'd rather have Zion, or a championship run like '14. I can spoil you the answer... I'll give you another easy example: Cleveland. They're , have been since '16 and their team is an absolute cluster , with leftover contracts like KLove from the LeBron days. Do you think any of their fans looks at the RIGHT NOW, and cusses out their FO for having KLove there? No, because they understand it was a thank-you contract and the cost of a championship. The state of a team does not exist in a vacuum, and you continuing to ignore it looks increasingly like burying your head in the sand just so you can say the Spurs FO is . Again, something I don't understand.
The next 2-3 drafts are rumored to be loaded with high-end talent. For all we know, the direction of the Spurs can be to welcome a tank after Pop retires next season, and get the next Luka Doncic there. But you won't wait for that before you criticize them for it. You want a sense of direction? Are all the rumors about trading the vets and the bubble play not enough? You haven't even waited for the draft to continue ting on them. Again I say, you're en led - en led to feeling like the FO owes you an explanation, owes you a sense of direction, owes you success. Newsflash - they don't. And the only reason you have this mentality, is because you have grown accustomed to expecting better from the Spurs, exactly because they are such a well-run organization and that turned into decades of success.
And about the last point... I don't know what to tell you if you think the FO had no part in making those le runs possible. Like, really? I don't want to call you stupid, but it's unimaginable how you can look at the moves the Spurs have made over the years, and never attribute any of them to anything more than ""Luck"". Was the Kawhi draft night trade "luck"? It sure as wasn't. Was managing to keep together the Duncan-Parker-Manu core over their entire careers "Lucky"? It sure as wasn't. Were the Diaw, Splitter, LaMarcus, Green signings "lucky"? They sure as weren't. But, again - you have come to expect such a high level of production and success from the Spurs, that you can't comprehend just how well-run they are to make what they achieved, a reality.
I'll change my stance - maybe it's not that you couldn't be a Knicks fan, after all. It might be that you appreciate the Spurs so little, that you'd do well to go root for NY for a couple seasons, then come back with the humility and awareness to be grateful to an organization that has consistently managed to put the best possible product on the court for their fans.
If we stay at 11 he’s my choice as well.
SMH.
I guess it’s bc there’s too much change at once. We’ve had like 20 years of constant ownership, GM, and coach. Then we got a new owner. Then a new GM. And next very soon will be a new coach. We have also been running through assistant coaches like crazy. And more likely than not, the guy we are going to hire will have zero nba head coaching experience. That much change, all in a matter of a few years, worries me. Companies go out of business with that sort of change. I’m not saying that the Spurs will go under or anything, but that it’s hard to get everything right. It’s hard getting the right GM. It’s hard getting the right owner (like you say in the Knicks and Wolves and even the Lakers for a while). It’s hard to get the right coach. And it’s even harder when our cupboard is bare. All the guys we were going to have as replacements are elsewhere already
As far as Smith goes, I just see him as an immediate need. Like we immediately need an athletic big. But he isn’t going to provide the scoring replacement you think he is mainly bc he can’t create for himself. He’s not a one on one player type. Lonnie could potentially create for others. I don’t know but honestly he hasn’t mastered enough of the offense for me to feel that way about him. Dude needs plays called for HIM before I can worry about him setting up others
KJ is my wild card. He’s who I’m putting all my eggs in for. Dude looks like a stud. Has the right at ude and unlike other young guys, his gym improvements seem to transfer over to the real game. I suppose I should wait and see what he’s trending like to be all gloom and doom. But I just see us as another non playoff team that gets like the 12th pick in the draft which is a frustrating place to be
Speaking of Rasheed Wallace vs LaMarcus Aldridge ...
Rasheed and Bonzi Wells have their own podcast. The ? Lmfao
They interview Jalen here.
I'd rather be realistic and not write short stories.
The Gasol contract wasn't good the moment it was signed, which goes for almost every move they've made (outside of the draft) in the past 3 years.
Again, the past is irrelevant in this case. These teams being mentioned clearly have brighter futures at this writing. Only a homer would pretend otherwise.
I'm not speculating on what might happen in the future, I'm just taking what we have at the moment and how they arrived at it. Every organization owes their fans because they don't exist without us.
I didn't say no part, just a far lesser one than they're often credited with because they didn't have a stereotypical superstar.
The past doesn't give these idiots free reign to run this franchise into the ground for however long they please.
Whew, emotions running high around here a few hours before the draft. Good stuff.
"I'd rather be realistic and not write short stories"
Words from a loser who was dismantled.
Nothing will get through to this pompous asshole.
He's as closeminded as those racist Trump supporters.
Forever stuck on a miserable loop. Too stupid to get it.
Glad this er got wrecked by Sugus.
To be fair, it wasn't all me. The Spurs FO made my job quite easy by being such a good organization over the years
Yeah, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here, then. I don't think I can try to convince you any further. I'll just say: if you're complaining this much about the Spurs right now, I can't imagine how bad it'd be if we were to miss the playoffs a couple more seasons during Pop's last years... Because in my mind, it's years, plural. Funny to see everyone here assuming he's gonna hang it up just after this season. He's got a lot of wine to buy, after all
At this crybaby psycho's bizarre level of hatred over a random message board poster because he's far more knowledgeable than him about basketball.
I hope they select Vassell/Bey tonight and wreck your life.
Again, it has nothing to do with the losing.Yeah, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here, then. I don't think I can try to convince you any further. I'll just say: if you're complaining this much about the Spurs right now, I can't imagine how bad it'd be if we were to miss the playoffs a couple more seasons during Pop's last years... Because in my mind, it's years, plural. Funny to see everyone here assuming he's gonna hang it up just after this season. He's got a lot of wine to buy, after all
Last edited by TD 21; 11-18-2020 at 07:19 PM.
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