Stein: Chatter Circulating About The Spurs' Attempts To "Barge" Their Way Into Simmons Sweepstakes

[Mnky]

Nah, I think this board is more idiotic than pretty much any other NBA board. Every one has its clowns, but here the clowns have this multicolored jack off display on a regular basis. It's very amusing. What's great about this place is no one seems to have any notion of what the Spurs are as a team and a franchise. It's like you have to hit yourself over the head with a mallet at least two hundred times. It's pretty impressive.

This. It's wild there's adults in this world with such little affirmation in their lives.
It'd be nice just to talk basketball on a basketball forum.

This place is good for news though. Keeps all my spurs content updates in one area.

[itzsoweezee]

Fuuuuck this noise.

This is a Kangz-level move, for real now. Y'all have been ing about the "inept FO" moves all off-season long - this is precisely the move an inept FO would do. I too don't buy all this noise and "sources", it's clear the clock is ticking out on Simmons and the Klutch media machine is hoping now more than ever for a bidding war, lest Simmons be on the roster still come training camp.

at naive posters thinking Simmons is a "first domino" and would attract "ring chasers" to SanAn. Insane that after so many years this fantasy is still going strong, for BEN SIMMONS nonetheless... Who's he gonna drag down here? Be ing real... Guy is hardly adequate as a #2 option, probably a #3, with the ego of a diva #1 to boot. Further at posters thinking his "issues are fixable", no they aren't - he literally shoots off the wrong ing hand still, at twenty- ing-five, be real. Chip could more easily get Poeltl shooting 3's than he would Simmons shooting them (matter-of-factly, Poeltl literally has a better jumper and touch than Simmons does, and I see nobody barking up that hopeless tree for some reason...).

Disgusting that it's even a consideration, can only hope it's media BS smoke and mirrors. Definitely would be my breaking point. Simmons and being locked into at least 4 years of mediocrity (the REAL mediocrity) paying his bum, beta ass $140 million dollars. I'd much, much rather bottom out and go get a player off the top lottery who isn't so fatally and fundamentally flawed in the most important aspect of the modern NBA as Simmons. Why do people even want him? You can't even play him for his defense in the 4th, he's been Hack-A-Shaq'd literally every single playoff series last season

Once again... this.

Spurs are definitely not interested in bottoming out. Nothing they’ve done indicates they are going to do anything other than try to win as many games as possible this year, even though the roster sucks, as was the case the past three years.

The only positive I see is that I’d rather give a ton of money to a young player like Ben Simmons than a ton of money to a washed up vet like derozan.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

simmons is flawed, maybe fatally, but the spurs don't have a single player on the roster that is worthy of sniffing his jock

i'd trade anyone on the roster plus a 1st for even a borderline all star, especially one with (maybe imaginary) potential to grow significantly

[LCM]

If the Spurs helped facilitate trade of Ben Simmons: 4 Teams

Suns - Thad Young

Kings - Ben Simmons, Luka Samanic, 2nd rd pick 2023 Spurs (via Pacers)

76ers - Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker, Dario Saric, Jalen Smith (1st rd picks - 2022 Sac, 2024 Sac - Lottery protected, 2025 Spurs (via Bulls)) (2nd rd picks 2022 Sac, 2025 Sac, 2025 Spurs (via Bulls))

Spurs - Tyrese Haliburton, Marvin Bagley III, Harrison Barnes

Spurs SL: T. Haliburton, D. White, K. Johnson, H. Barnes, J. Poeltl
Bench: T. Jones, D. Vassell, D. McDermott, M. Bagley, J. Landale
B. Forbes, AF Aminu, D. Eubanks, Z. Collins, J. Primo (Stretch waive Hutchinson)
Two way - Wieskamp, KBD?

If you rehabilitate Bagley, you can flip him for assets at trade deadline, and Barnes can be flipped in the offseason due to only being 29 and on an expiring contract of 18 million, very affordable. This also gives Collins time to get completely healthy, you get Haliburton on his rookie deal to be the head of the snake on offense, and you get Primo ready to eventually take over for White in the future instead of Murray. Your core becomes Haliburton, Primo, Johnson, Vassell, and Collins - you'll have glue guys like Wieskamp and Landale - and you'll still have your 1st rd picks to go hunting for that front court piece to put the team over the top. This trade also doesn't compromise any flexibility for 2023 FA class. Plus White can be used as a trade piece at that time as well.

The 76ers get a player in Murray who can run the team, needed front court depth with Smith. Drummond is backing up Embid, so Saric can rehab and fill that position next year, and Walker gets to play in his home state on a one year prove it deal or be flipped at trade deadline. They also get 6 picks in total, a blessing since Simmons value is dog right now (it's probably too many picks, I agree!).

76ers SL: DJM, LW4, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, Joel Embid
Bench: Maxey, Seth Curry, M. Thybelle, Jalen Smith, Drummond
Springer, Milton, Kurkmaz, Saric, Paul Reed (Stretch waive Tolliver)

Now, since I've put my contribution to bull nonsense up, I'm going to bed

[poopbox]

I feel like anybody that wants Ben Simmons on this team just doesn't fundamentally understand the game of basketball in 2021. Anybody who wants Simmons doesn't even understand the fundamental term of value because the spurs get way more value for what they pay in salary for dejounte production vs what they would pay in salary for Simmons production, and since Morey at the very least understands value their is around a 0% chance you are getting Simmons unless you trade Murray.

Also, there is no Joel Embiid in San Antonio. There is no big getting doubled every play giving Simmons plenty of room on the perimeter to work. There is no big that people are scared of leaving when Simmons goes to the paint so they just give him his layups, which other than fast break dunks and the occasional freethrows he does make, is the only way he scores. Those pip's are going to be much tougher to get in san antonio since they don't have a dominant big that a defender will be scared to take his body off of to challenge anybody guarding at the rim. We have the opposite problem. Poetl is such a pussy on offense that every big leaves his body and attacks any guard we have driving, which is why you see our guards have to pull up from the free throw line so much, because Poeltl's guy knows he's can challenge the guard and recover in time to challenge Poetl soft ass attempt, assuming they give a about his little push shot in the first place, which they don't.

His defense is grossly overrated. He's got one of the better defensive bigs in the nba protecting the rim. He's got at least an average defender beside him in LDN. Thybulle is also a great defender. This should be obvious to people when LDN got hurt and didn't play against the hawks, Thybulle didn't get all those minutes cause he is awful defensively, and once that happened Trae cooked the out of Ben, who has virtually every physical advantage over him. You put Ben on the floor with Forbes and Mcbuckeets for 25 minutes and you going to have a bottom 5 defense for 25 minutes.

Not to mention the trade value of players. Murray is a desirable asset for virtually every time of the nba due to what he makes, he is theoretically somebody you could trade anywhere and get some value for, might not be equal value or the value you want, but you can get something. Same for white, same for vassell, same for lonnie. Ben has NO trade value, that's the whole reason why the spurs are even in the discussing in the first place, because no one else wants to be. You trade for Ben Simmons you will NEVER be able to trade Ben Simmons. And you here more about this guys night life than his basketball life. You think he is going to resign in San Antonio ? I don't. So you're not trading for Ben Simmons. You are trading for 4 years of a guy that nobody wants who is going to go play somewhere else when his contract is up. So what are the spurs doing in the 4 years that Ben Simmons is here? Probably trying to replace all the players they traded Ben Simmons for in the first place.

All of this "the spurs can change his game and make him more blah blah blah" is a pipe dream. What did they change about Derozan game ? Nothing. What did they change about LMA game? Nothing, the 3's he did finally start shooting he only shot cause he knew he was on his way out the league if he didn't, not because the spurs "changed" him. So not sure how anyone could be confident that they can get Ben to be something on the floor he doesn't want to be.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.

[Sugus]

Spurs are definitely not interested in bottoming out. Nothing they’ve done indicates they are going to do anything other than try to win as many games as possible this year, even though the roster sucks, as was the case the past three years.

The only positive I see is that I’d rather give a ton of money to a young player like Ben Simmons than a ton of money to a washed up vet like derozan.

At some point, it's not about whether you're interested in bottoming out - you just do. We can argue how far, talent-wise, the current Spurs are from doing that, but we objectively are not that far away from that.

Given this landscape, there is no sense in bringing along Simmons, who not only 1. prevents the team's young players from getting better by demanding touches/attention/the roster to be shaped around him (we remember he's a "PG", right? And we're loaded with guards, right?), 2. is bound to create a conflict of interest with DJ/White/Keldon/whomever by demanding to be the "alpha" in the locker-room, by virtue of being massively paid compared to the rest of the roster, whilst being unable to back this persona up on the court, but also 3. isn't at all guaranteed to make the team better, due to being such a negative on offense (particularly half-court offense) but also, as said, demanding to be the lead ball-handler. We literally just got off DeRozan, who required a team of 3&D puppets around him to operate at his best, only to hypothetically jump into the Simmons wagon, who demands the exact same (impossible) configuration to be truly useful. And even then, as Philly has seen, you really can't count on him being aggressive enough when the lights shine bright.

Having said that - I do agree on your silver lining. Definitely prefer to pay young talent than washed up vets. BUT, and it's a big but - is Simmons really the only option for the Spurs' cap space being locked up the next 4 years? No. I see pro-Simmons posters posing this as a kind of binary choice (either the Spurs go for Simmons NOW, or never have the chance at another star again! Gotta buy when it's low!!), when it really, really isn't. I totally get that the Spurs are small market and can't be too picky with their opportunities... That doesn't mean shoot yourself in the foot in any ill-advised attempt at relevancy. There's levels to this.

As I said, an absolute Kangz move. No way around it tbh.

[playbonner15]

Derrick White w/ DG and Embiid... If the sixers can pull this off...

[Sugus]

All of this "the spurs can change his game and make him more blah blah blah" is a pipe dream. What did they change about Derozan game ? Nothing. What did they change about LMA game? Nothing, the 3's he did finally start shooting he only shot cause he knew he was on his way out the league if he didn't, not because the spurs "changed" him. So not sure how anyone could be confident that they can get Ben to be something on the floor he doesn't want to be.

Truth nuke.

For all the talk of delusion in this board, there's hardly a more deluded idea than believing Simmons is "a jumpshot away", or that he can develop one at all at this point in his career. The same way we saw DeRozan try year in, year out to add the 3 ball to his game, only to consistently go back to his comfort zone once things got tight - it's all the same for Benny boy. I confidently say we won't ever see him use jump shots of any kind as a reliable, go-to part of his scoring arsenal - and in '21 NBA, you simply can't have that out of a player you're devoting $140 MILLION towards.

[Sugus]

So Dejounte Murray is better than Ben Simmons?

Given their contracts, team roles, balance between offensive and defensive games, expectations regarding role on a team & their ability to lead it, improvement and developmental path so far, and especially their strengths and deficiencies in relation to their positional roles - yes. And I'm no Murray stan.

You can play one of those guys in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, but not the other one. What argument is there to be made, tbh?

[playblair]

stop comparing simmons to derozan..........derozan isnt 1/3 the player simmons is..........simmons is a superstar type of player derozan is not

[tbdog]

stop comparing simmons to derozan..........derozan isnt 1/3 the player simmons is..........simmons is a superstar type of player derozan is not

Not sure if that is the case.

[MarCowMar]

In the old days, if the Spurs were to "barge in" on trade discussions for a fundamentally flawed player, I would figure it would be to drive a foolish club to overpay even more. We used to be masters of the art of war and use every opportunity to undermine our opposition.

With Brian Wright in charge, we are now the foolish club that is about to get played. Instead of acknowledging the reality of this player and looking to exploit his tensions with Philly, we act based on emotion and hope, projecting a future for this "star" player that simply does not exist. We discard reason and long term plans, electing instead to roll the dice for a quick thrill; hoping that with clever coaching and a bit of luck it will all work out. This is the approach of a losing club.

[tbdog]

Given their contracts, team roles, balance between offensive and defensive games, expectations regarding role on a team & their ability to lead it, improvement and developmental path so far, and especially their strengths and deficiencies in relation to their positional roles - yes. And I'm no Murray stan.

You can play one of those guys in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, but not the other one. What argument is there to be made, tbh?

It comes down to FT shooting. Simmons shot 70% in his first playoff run but got worst, down to a shocking 34%. You get him back up to 70%, and you'll get a much better player. Even if he never wants to take a jumper again.

[tbdog]

People here are so low on simmons. It's the prefect time to trade for a star. It's all about the price.

[Sugus]

It comes down to FT shooting. Simmons shot 70% in his first playoff run but got worst, down to a shocking 34%. You get him back up to 70%, and you'll get a much better player. Even if he never wants to take a jumper again.

You're reinforcing my point, my guy.

What you say is - yet another - big, red flag attached to Simmons. When you talk about "getting [a player] back up to X%" you're usually saying, give the guy rest, some time, work on his mechanics, etc. And it's usually small percentage variations. With Benny, you're trying to surmount a drop of 36% in FT%, completely inexplainable beyond the simple fact that he doesn't have the mental for ude to improve his game in the playoffs. Literally no other outside variations (we're not talking pull-up % or contested shot making, where defenders, matchups etc are factors; it's literally free throws). And then, you take into account the fact that teams were literally Hack-A-Shaq'ing this guy, because not only could he not punish teams for it, he got disgustingly worse at a basic part of the game under pressure. You think teams are gonna stop hacking him just because he's in SanAn instead of Philly? no.

The book on stopping Simmons is out in the open for everyone to read. Every single team took notes (actually, smart teams have been taking notes for years now, like the Celtics). Unless you're thinking of a sports psychologist (which I have the feeling Benny won't take too well getting sent to), it sure as ain't as easy as "getting him back up to 70%". The problem lies far deeper, deeper than SA can realistically hope to fix.

Damaged goods, as they call it. Dead end. Whatever you wanna call it.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

People here are so low on simmons. It's the prefect time to trade for a star. It's all about the price.

yep the spurs young guns right now are at various stages of trying to prove themselves as solid role players, with maybe a couple (keldon/murrary) trying to grow into a legit #2/#3 player.

simmons is proven leaps and bound ahead of that.

if the deal is not extortionate, then why not do it?

(and i for one am bearish on simmons's future potential but his floor and ceiling are far beyond anyone on the spursies roster currently)

[gambit1990]

hang on to keldon and make this happen.

[gambit1990]

then again, philly has to want A LOT. they probably want murray, keldon, lonnie, and two 1st rounders at minimum.

[BillMc]

Whether we should or should not aside, is there credible evidence the Spurs are really in the game trying to acquire Simmons?

[gambit1990]

how was brett brown and simmons relationship?

reunion in sa?

[Uriel]

The most significant aspect of OP’s post isn’t the Ben Simmons news, IMO, but the tidbit about Pop wanting to go for the all-time wins record. If so, he really could be back for another year, which would be a significant development.

[rankingtear]

At this point we are already eating our young, time to cash in on hitting on draft picks. The only concern is finding that perimeter 5 to unlock Simmons offensively.

[ismael-robert]

Dj will take another step fwd this year n we'll all regret trading him for an average player who makes AS games on name alone

[daslicer]

Spurs will get hosed and end up giving up 4 first round picks for Ben.