Run for Play-In

[KobesAchilles]

If it means the Lakers miss the play-in then I’m all for us making it. I love seeing them being a dumpster fire.

[BackHome]

First Le China ain’t making the playoffs AD has a hurt foot and Lebron has knee and ankle issues. So that makes us the 10th playing NO which is just a better team then we are so I guess I am all in on the Play In as it won’t much much regarding where we pick. But this team got lucky we have been pretty healthy all season and not for Stars being hurt on certain teams we probably easily looking at a top 5 pick.

Also Pop has publicly acknowledged that we are in a re build mode so I expect more trades after this season and certain players won’t be back - Unless they sign for cheap; Walker

[KingKev]

We’re not letting Walker walk.

Debatable. He has earned a QO. His cap hold may complicate things. We are deep at the 2 guard position. If your cap space is likely to go to waste maybe you pay up and match more than you would otherwise.

I don’t have a strong view here and think it’s very fluid. Too many variables here between 4 draft picks, cap flexibility, Langford, JRich, Vassell, Primo and Walker all battling for minutes.

[MannyIsGod]

Its possible Walker is let go in the offseason, but the only scenarios I see that being the case are a really over the top offer from another team that the Spurs just refuse to match (unlikely) and the other being his QO being pulled due to make room for a big ass signing. So its not really out of the realm of possibility the Spurs let him go to open up more cap room.

[BacktoBasics]

Debatable. He has earned a QO. His cap hold may complicate things. We are deep at the 2 guard position. If your cap space is likely to go to waste maybe you pay up and match more than you would otherwise.

I don’t have a strong view here and think it’s very fluid. Too many variables here between 4 draft picks, cap flexibility, Langford, JRich, Vassell, Primo and Walker all battling for minutes.

Traded maybe… let walk, no.

We’re not letting him walk. I’ll happily put money on that.

[BacktoBasics]

Its possible Walker is let go in the offseason, but the only scenarios I see that being the case are a really over the top offer from another team that the Spurs just refuse to match (unlikely) and the other being his QO being pulled due to make room for a big ass signing. So its not really out of the realm of possibility the Spurs let him go to open up more cap room.

If it’s an outrageous offer I would agree. I don’t consider that the same as simply letting him walk.

I don’t think pulling the QO is something this team would have to face. There’s nothing out there that they could obtain which would be more valuable than Walker on a QO. Yeah sure we can create and discuss all kinds of nonsensical scenarios but it’s wildly far fetched.

[MannyIsGod]

If it’s an outrageous offer I would agree. I don’t consider that the same as simply letting him walk.

I don’t think pulling the QO is something this team would have to face. There’s nothing out there that they could obtain which would be more valuable than Walker on a QO. Yeah sure we can create and discuss all kinds of nonsensical scenarios but it’s wildly far fetched.

Uh what do you mean there's nothing more valuable than walker on a QO they could obtain? There are lots of free agents they could obtain that would be better. After the picks they make, they may have to choose between a Lonnie Walker QO and offering a max contract. Maybe maybe not, but this is part of the flexibility I mentioned above.

I am fully in favor of the Spurs trying to keep Lonnie and I think he's a worthwhile asset (assuming a good contract) but if they have to rescind his QO in order to use appropriate caproom then I'm OK with it. We don't know what that will be until the draft or at least the lottery. A top pick takes up a sizeable slot.

[KingKev]

Traded maybe… let walk, no.

We’re not letting him walk. I’ll happily put money on that.

His RFA status makes a sign and trade much less likely. You can’t simply match and than sign and trade him. Match and trade at a later date maybe. Walker will get MLE offers and the Spurs will have to make a decision. You aren’t getting back for Walker in a true sign and trade this offseason. He simply isnmt worth much.

[BatManu20]

Fwiw, I’d be shocked if Lonnie isn’t back next season. He’s playing the best ball of his career right now, he’s on record as saying he actually likes SA and wants to be here long term, he just bought a house here, and will likely re-sign on a team-friendly deal imo. If another team comes out of the woodworks and offers him something ludicrous, then so be it. Otherwise, I see him in Silver & Black next season.

[MannyIsGod]

Fwiw, I’d be shocked if Lonnie isn’t back next season. He’s playing the best ball of his career right now, he’s on record as saying he actually likes SA and wants to be here long term, he just bought a house here, and will likely re-sign on a team-friendly deal imo. If another team comes out of the woodworks and offers him something ludicrous, then so be it. Otherwise, I see him in Silver & Black next season.

Yeah I think Lonnie will sign a friendly extension. I do think this team's tightness will play into guys like Keldon and Lonnie signing team friendly deals but we'll see.

[TD 21]

I do think they'll come away with a prospect that ends up in the Rising Stars game (though more likely their second year). But someone is going to fall that ends up being intriguing, and while I don't doubt there will be one or two guys obviously better taken higher up, I think there will be a lot of worse players that SA may have taken over the player they get if they had the chance.

I'll believe a Spur in the Rising Stars game when I see it.

Of course they could end up with a steal/value pick, but they need an offensive centerpiece and the only two who look like they could conceivably be that right now are Banchero and Ivey.

a number solid prospects to go along with their cap space and expirings. but the Spurs have the la ude to bring in two All-Star --caliber players this summer without going into pick , and they're one of the few teams that could acquire a top-five pick that would have any real interest in doing so.

Only Johnson and Vassell can be called solid prospects. Primo is a project and no one else is worth mentioning.

Maybe so, but it's highly unlikely they'll bring in an All-Star caliber player. Collins is the only one who seems feasible; whether he's quite at that level or can get to it in this context is debatable.

I'm saying the idea of building from a single block isn't enough of a plan. How you get that block matters. There are a number of good scoring guards in the league in unideal situations (Mitc , Nunn, Gary Harris and Sexton as youngish examples but also guys like Beal and Irving as unlikely free-agent wildcards). Murray's flexibility allows the Spurs to bring in guys at either position. The same interchangeability is there with Collins as well. Randle, Ingram, Siakam, Grant and Harris are other examples.

In this case, it is. Had they got Banchero, it's not unreasonable to think the core would have been mostly in place.

Mitc , Beal and Irving are pipe dreams (the first two will only be traded if they request it and even then, the Spurs don't have the assets to acquire them nor the infrastructure to appeal to them), Nunn is a sixth man and Harris isn't a scoring guard. Ingram and Siakam are pipe dreams (no reason to think they'll be traded).

Harris is interesting. The Thunder have been speculated as a salary dump destination, but the Spurs should be interested. He could make sense now and would obviously have to come with a good amount of draft capital attached.

[exstatic]

I'll believe a Spur in the Rising Stars game when I see it.

Of course they could end up with a steal/value pick, but they need an offensive centerpiece and the only two who look like they could conceivably be that right now are Banchero and Ivey.




Only Johnson and Vassell can be called solid prospects. Primo is a project and no one else is worth mentioning.

Maybe so, but it's highly unlikely they'll bring in an All-Star caliber player. Collins is the only one who seems feasible; whether he's quite at that level or can get to it in this context is debatable.




In this case, it is. Had they got Banchero, it's not unreasonable to think the core would have been mostly in place.

Mitc , Beal and Irving are pipe dreams (the first two will only be traded if they request it and even then, the Spurs don't have the assets to acquire them nor the infrastructure to appeal to them), Nunn is a sixth man and Harris isn't a scoring guard. Ingram and Siakam are pipe dreams (no reason to think they'll be traded).

Harris is interesting. The Thunder have been speculated as a salary dump destination, but the Spurs should be interested. He could make sense now and would obviously have to come with a good amount of draft capital attached.

Harris makes no sense at all for the Spurs. He generated a ton of buzz when he was making mid teens millions and had value at that price, but he will be 30 this summer, and is on a contract that will pay him ~$41M in it's last year, 2023-2024. You've shut every other door if you make this move.

[TD 21]

Harris makes no sense at all for the Spurs. He generated a ton of buzz when he was making mid teens millions and had value at that price, but he will be 30 this summer, and is on a contract that will pay him ~$41M in it's last year, 2023-2024. You've shut every other door if you make this move.

I'm not saying as a plan A. If enough of the things discussed ad nauseam don't pan out and of course depending on the quan y and quality of the draft capital the 76ers are willing to attach (this is a team primed to go off a cliff around the mid point of the decade).

He's basically a prime version of Gay. Outside of the albatross salary, he's both an on court and "cultural" fit.

[BacktoBasics]

Uh what do you mean there's nothing more valuable than walker on a QO they could obtain? There are lots of free agents they could obtain that would be better. After the picks they make, they may have to choose between a Lonnie Walker QO and offering a max contract. Maybe maybe not, but this is part of the flexibility I mentioned above.

I am fully in favor of the Spurs trying to keep Lonnie and I think he's a worthwhile asset (assuming a good contract) but if they have to rescind his QO in order to use appropriate caproom then I'm OK with it. We don't know what that will be until the draft or at least the lottery. A top pick takes up a sizeable slot.

Give me a few examples of realistic FA’s the spurs could acquire that would be worth pulling his QO. With the cap room we have I don’t see why this would be necessary.

If I remember correctly there isn’t much available this off-season.

[KingKev]

Give me a few examples of realistic FA’s the spurs could acquire that would be worth pulling his QO. With the cap room we have I don’t see why this would be necessary.

If I remember correctly there isn’t much available this off-season.

He will get the QO which is ~6.5mm but I’m not convinced we match much more than that. As you said it’s a poor free agency so he might actually get the MLE away. Not sure if that is worth matching and you can’t sign and trade him to the team who offers him that unless something is worked out before. I doubt anyone is giving up anything of value for him.

Either the Spurs are committed to Walker this summer or he is probably gone. Very little in between. We have Vassell, Primo, Langford and JRich who all have a value proposition at the 2.

[Chinook]

I'll believe a Spur in the Rising Stars game when I see it.

Keldon was a Rising Star selection just last year. Obviously with COVID the actual game didn't happen, but he got the votes. I think Jonathon Simmons was the last one to get a spot. It's a high but attainable bar for a Spurs player. Blair was a notable player to make it because of his status before being a Spur. There are a number of players the Spurs might draft who will have similar star power.

Of course they could end up with a steal/value pick, but they need an offensive centerpiece and the only two who look like they could conceivably be that right now are Banchero and Ivey.

Eh, while I don't think it's a crap shoot, the draft has a bit more nuance that than. I have those guys at the top of my board, but there are other guys who will probably get there. Moreover, the Spurs don't need an offensive centerpiece from this draft. There are a number of upgrades they can make as they put themselves into position to more directly target veteran offense. The goal should be to improve their position, not a homerun or bust.

Only Johnson and Vassell can be called solid prospects. Primo is a project and no one else is worth mentioning.

Not going to split hairs on prospect or project. I understand what you're getting at, but both are important for trade value. I'd put Jones in the list too as basically the other extreme from Primo. Tre has little upside if he doesn't start shooting threes, but he'd be a fine third-string PG. He doesn't have KBD's archetype, but he's a player who can fit into a roster, unlike say Romeo Langford whose best attribute is his mid-sized expiring salary at the moment.

Maybe so, but it's highly unlikely they'll bring in an All-Star caliber player. Collins is the only one who seems feasible; whether he's quite at that level or can get to it in this context is debatable.

It wouldn't shot me to see Randle get moved for a package the Spurs could match relatively easily. I don't think he's a very good player, but he can definitely score and is at least on paper able to provide the offense and front-court dynamism the team is lacking. It would be a huge commitment salary-wise, but the Spurs might be able to give themselves into a four-year competing window with Murray, Randle and some guard, which gives them a definite end while also leaving open more time to extend everything if it works.

In this case, it is. Had they got Banchero, it's not unreasonable to think the core would have been mostly in place.

I don't think so unless Banchero is a guy who'll be an MVP on his rookie deal. Even in my wildest draft dreams, I only see the Spurs winning the lottery and drafting well as them adding the second star to Murray. It's important to note that all three of the MVP front-runners have two max-level vets with them. I can't in good conscience even hope the Spurs draft the next GOAT-candidate, so I can't call drafting a superstar the only critical step. It alone is really insufficient.

Mitc , Beal and Irving are pipe dreams (the first two will only be traded if they request it and even then, the Spurs don't have the assets to acquire them nor the infrastructure to appeal to them), Nunn is a sixth man and Harris isn't a scoring guard. Ingram and Siakam are pipe dreams (no reason to think they'll be traded).

Mitc is supposedly trying to be traded to New York, which has worse assets than SA has. The only reason to move him there over SA is if the Spurs aren't willing to acquire him anyway. I'm not even in love with Mitc , but I don't think he's out of the Spurs' realistic market. Irving and Beal are free agents and don't need to be traded. You're right about Harris -- I think I was thinking of Malik Beasley, who's not a free agent.

That still leaves Sexton, Irving, Beal to try to woo. Irving is the best fit but also crazy and expensive. It's a good thing he doesn't want to leave Brooklyn. Beal would make sense but is also really expensive and will likely soak up the A-list recruiting. Sexton makes a ton of sense as a relatively high-volume efficient scorer who can handle the ball while not needing to dominate it. The Cavs might not want to let him go, but they were willing to last summer and at least will likely be willing to play ball on an S&T as opposed to matching a max offer sheet. He's a solid plan C to the big-name guys and Lavine.

Harris is interesting. The Thunder have been speculated as a salary dump destination, but the Spurs should be interested. He could make sense now and would obviously have to come with a good amount of draft capital attached.

I doubt the Spurs can get Harris for much payment. They might be able to get him and get rid of McD's contract. If they're getting paid, it's because they're sending out someone like Richardson too. I think he is a good fit on the court. His contract probably puts him at the bottom of the PF wishlist though. I'd have Randle, Grant and probably Nance as being higher.

[TD 21]

Keldon was a Rising Star selection just last year. Obviously with COVID the actual game didn't happen, but he got the votes.

I said in the game. Blair was from a previous generation when the Spurs weren't viewed as the outpost they now are.

Eh, while I don't think it's a crap shoot, the draft has a bit more nuance that than. I have those guys at the top of my board, but there are other guys who will probably get there. Moreover, the Spurs don't need an offensive centerpiece from this draft.

I'm just saying right now it looks to be that way.

This draft could end up the best chance to get it for a while because of the 3 1sts, one of which looked like it could be 7-8 for a while, Poeltl, Richardson and the fact that there was no "generational prospects(s)" to where there was no way in the top few would trade their pick. That's a rare combination.

It wouldn't shot me to see Randle get moved for a package the Spurs could match relatively easily.

They're in a precarious position where trying to be pseudo compe ive (and "owned"/run competently) is more important than a 10th pick because if they do those things, they should be able to attract A-listers. So they're better off holding onto him as a centerpiece of a Williamson or Mitc package.

I don't think so unless Banchero is a guy who'll be an MVP on his rookie deal.

He wouldn't have to be, he'd just need to meet projections (Randle, late prime Griffin) sooner than later.

Mitc is supposedly trying to be traded to New York, which has worse assets than SA has. The only reason to move him there over SA is if the Spurs aren't willing to acquire him anyway. I'm not even in love with Mitc , but I don't think he's out of the Spurs' realistic market. Irving and Beal are free agents and don't need to be traded.

That still leaves Sexton. Sexton makes a ton of sense as a relatively high-volume efficient scorer who can handle the ball while not needing to dominate it. The Cavs might not want to let him go, but they were willing to last summer and at least will likely be willing to play ball on an S&T as opposed to matching a max offer sheet. He's a solid plan C to the big-name guys and Lavine.

The Knicks have better assets because unlike the Spurs, who'd almost certainly make Murray off limits, they more than likely wouldn't with either Randle or Barrett. They're also out of conference and would more than likely be Mitc 's preference and teams, especially small markets, want it to end well with superstars/stars for optics if nothing else.

Irving is re-signing and Beal will either extend or force a trade first. He's not making it to free agency.

Sexton would be a fine fit offensively, but a poor one defensively. I'd only heavily invest a small guard that's thought to have superstar/star potential or already is one. The Cavaliers would likely require the '22 1st (if they like the player), a loosely protected '23 one or Vassell to relinquish him.

I doubt the Spurs can get Harris for much payment.

Yeah, the 76ers already surrendered draft capital in the Harden-Simmons trade.

[Chinook]

I said in the game. Blair was from a previous generation when the Spurs weren't viewed as the outpost they now are..

I mean, sure, but Johnson made the USANT team for goodness sake. Technically he wasn't seen playing in the RSG, but he would have done so. That's about the level a player needs to reach to get it. I wouldn't be shocked to see Primo make it next year, especially seeing as he's not American and thus can make the World team.

They're in a precarious position where trying to be pseudo compe ive (and "owned"/run competently) is more important than a 10th pick because if they do those things, they should be able to attract A-listers. So they're better off holding onto him as a centerpiece of a Williamson or Mitc package.

...

The Knicks have better assets because unlike the Spurs, who'd almost certainly make Murray off limits, they more than likely wouldn't with either Randle or Barrett. They're also out of conference and would more than likely be Mitc 's preference and teams, especially small markets, want it to end well with superstars/stars for optics if nothing else.

I have these two tied together. I don't think Randle has a lot of value. He's signed to a huge deal and hasn't been very good to go with at ude problems. I don't think Utah wants him as part of a Mitc deal. Barrett has had a good year, but New York hype makes him seem like a better prospect than he is. In reality, Barrett and Johnson are similar prospects, which Barrett scoring more (until recently) but Keldon being more efficient. The Knicks also have mostly bad ballast to add to their players while SA has good ballast, as you said earlier. Mitc literally has four more years on his contract after this. Where he prefers to go isn't going to play a bigger role than it did for Deron Williams. I don't think he'll be traded at all, but I think if it is, the only way he goes to he Knicks is if they go all-in on him, which I would hope they're smart enough to not do.

He wouldn't have to be, he'd just need to meet projections (Randle, late prime Griffin) sooner than later.

If we're talking about six or seven years down the line, where SA's roster is now is basically irrelevant. They'll have cycled out everyone except maybe Murray by then. I don't see this roster as constructed being one player away unless we're talking about a GOAT candidate joining them. If Banchero isn't that kind of player, the Spurs would still need to make more moves. Even if he's Mobley good, the Spurs would be struggling to avoid the play-in rather than even a dark-horse contender.

Irving is re-signing and Beal will either extend or force a trade first. He's not making it to free agency.

I agree neither is likely, though they will clog up the main recruiting in free agency, which is good for the Spurs if they want to pursue secondary targets. Beal can't force a trade though. He's not extending because he can't make as much money by doing so. If he doesn't extend, he can't be traded.

Sexton would be a fine fit offensively, but a poor one defensively. I'd only heavily invest a small guard that's thought to have superstar/star potential or already is one. The Cavaliers would likely require the '22 1st (if they like the player), a loosely protected '23 one or Vassell to relinquish him.

I don't see the Cavs as having that kind of leverage. If they want to keep Sexton, they'll just keep him. If they don't, they aren't going to match a max contract offer. We're looking at something which is at best what the Spurs got for DeRozan. I think it only goes that far if SA doesn't want to use cap space on the deal. I might just max him and use my contracts on other pursuits and just accept it if it gets matched. Again, Lavine first, but if he says no, then moving on and trying to pry Colin away makes more sense to me.

[BacktoBasics]

He will get the QO which is ~6.5mm but I’m not convinced we match much more than that. As you said it’s a poor free agency so he might actually get the MLE away. Not sure if that is worth matching and you can’t sign and trade him to the team who offers him that unless something is worked out before. I doubt anyone is giving up anything of value for him.

Either the Spurs are committed to Walker this summer or he is probably gone. Very little in between. We have Vassell, Primo, Langford and JRich who all have a value proposition at the 2.

He’s debatably worth 8-9 mil.

But again I see no reason to pull a QO. There’s no one there that we would acquire that would have us needing to do that.

[exstatic]

Give me a few examples of realistic FA’s the spurs could acquire that would be worth pulling his QO. With the cap room we have I don’t see why this would be necessary.

If I remember correctly there isn’t much available this off-season.

The QO and the cap hold are not the same. Until his situation is resolved, he will count $12.4M against our cap. That would be worth pulling the offer if something like Lavine came up as available, or someone dropped onto the trade market, as we wouldn't have MAX room to offer.

[exstatic]

Give me a few examples of realistic FA’s the spurs could acquire that would be worth pulling his QO. With the cap room we have I don’t see why this would be necessary.

If I remember correctly there isn’t much available this off-season.

The QO and the cap hold are not the same. Until his situation is resolved, he will count $13.3M against our cap. That would be worth pulling the offer if something like Lavine came up as available, or someone dropped onto the trade market, as we wouldn't have MAX room to offer.

[KingKev]

^ a great argument why Walker IS NOT safe. Very fluid situation and probably over the minds of many on this board.

[exstatic]

^ a great argument why Walker IS NOT safe. Very fluid situation and probably over the minds of many on this board.

Now, it wouldn't cost us Bird Rights if we pulled the QO, but it would move his free agency from restricted to unrestricted. Not sure what happens to his hold in that case. Maybe 150% of current salary? The hold doesn't go away unless he is renounced.

[Drom John]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Primo make it next year, especially seeing as he's not American and thus can make the World team.

New format; the NBA got rid of the World team this year.

[Kevin]

Since Lonnie 2.0 emerged on February 12th he's averaging almost 19 points a game and yet his plus minus over that time still sits at -3.5. The man dropped a 30 bomb and his plus minus that game sat at zero.

Lonnie 2.0 has had 8 games of 20+ points and his plus minus was positive in only 2 games and one of those games was a +1.

My point being that despite his scoring surge its still very debatable if he actually helps that team overall.

All that said if he continues to score they almost have to keep him. If can become just a mediocre defender he's a Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry bench scorer.