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Good stuff.
Yeah, everyone knows your standpoint here, but no one agrees.
Good stuff.
The problem with guys like Hollinger is that they're entirely analytical, reason why he's not in the league anymore. Kinda same with journalists.
He misses the human part, the social part, the intangibles part. Because at the end of the day, teams are made of humans, not data. And you GOTTA understand that human, social and intangibles part, that part you can't convert into data, to build a team That would be too easy if that was just about analytics and THE right thing to do at any moment. This isn't NB2K. He's missing context, history and the reality of any organisation
There's also the "genius" syndrome of an expert who wants to show that he knows better, and justify his paycheck I guess. It's not funny if you just say, "yeah everything was just fine", so they might try to see things in a way they can be the one getting it vs. the ignorant ( we have specialists here)...
Hollinger isn't in the spurs organisation and doesn't know what's going on there nor about spurs intangibles. He's just looking from outside saying: Hey, why didn't they make that? Of course, spurs thougt about it, but there's a reson they didn't. First because maybe there wasn't any opportunity or because they have another plan. There's more context to put into their decision than just analysing it in a vacuum.
Last edited by JPB; 02-10-2023 at 12:20 PM.
Hollinger does lol and so do many others. I’ve gotten messages they agree and on Twitter too. Dont confuse the same 4 people responding to me that dont agree as “everyone”.
There is a balance with data and “human” but Spurs and ST is like inverse Hollingers; put wayyyyyy to much emphasis on culture and stuff like that. Bad teams are fine and it’s not important that its “Doug” doing mentoring. There’s plenty of others that would be just fine with marginal difference in results right? Doug isnt helping SA win games (which thank goodness) - but its hard to say you can’t find another cheaper guy who gives you 85% of what Doug does from mentorship perspective.
It’s why SA sucked for so long with Mills/Gay/Gasol and loyalty contracts and SO many here were cool with it and wanted to keep DeRozan because they didnt understand that our youth could do and was ready for more and they believed too much in culture/good guys etc…theres a balance but on bad rebuilding teams you should always lean more data driven/asset driven because you’re losing anyways.
You just dont want to be Rockets with no good vets and no development. As long as you avoid that? It’s ok
Last edited by DPG21920; 02-10-2023 at 12:36 PM.
PER Hollinger: “San Antonio still gets another bite at the apple here, but using that fruit could make for some stale strudel. As the last team left with functional cap space, the Spurs can use their $25 million in room to make deals before July 1. However, in most cases, it’s an irrelevant distinction, as the Spurs would have massive cap room in 2023-24 regardless, and any player traded to them before July 1 would have 2023-24 money due to them. (You can’t trade an impending free agent after the season.) A nerdy enough trade could be constructed where this distinction matters and the 2022-23 cap room becomes important. But in most cases, it won’t matter, and the opportunity has passed.“
Man after some research I have done an almost complete 180 on this Graham deal.
Graham is exactly the kinda fit Spurs max up into a solid player. Perfect reclaim type.
Graham also fills a positional need with pretty good ball handling skills but as a SG/PG you can slot in either the 1 or 2.
Makes me think it's insurance to Blake Wesley's development timeline or lack thereof. Spurs maybe think Wes isn't ready yet or his timeline is slow which makes the previously burdensome contract issue with Graham start to make sense. That contract is less of a problem since it stretches over Wesley's potential failure track as insurance to Wesley if he doesn't click.
Wonder what the Spurs plan to do about Tre Jones?
But Graham coming in kinda reminds me of JR coming in this time last year and kinda felt like a throw in but ended up being a pretty good value and contributor up until he was sold high before he walked for nothing.
Bet Spurs flip Graham in about the same way once it is all said and done.
Why do Spurs FO get credit for “just passing” or thinking about it vs making a mistake? How do you know? At a minimum, because we are not in the organization, we know only one thing: It was at best a missed opportunity. That doesn’t mean they idiots or we should hate them. But it’s just a fact.
You can say they missed opportunities and still think they did a good job. That’s not mutually exclusive.
Tre is a big question in the off-season. How is he valued by the Spurs and the market and what should Spurs pay him? Is there a line you dont cross no matter what? Is it dependent on draft and depth?
It will be a big question that I’m not sure where I land just yet. He’s a good player but I’m not sure how much I would want to pay him or why.
I do agree about Wesley. He’s no where near ready. I’m usually wanting the youth (like Derrick/Dejounte) freed pretty early but he’s just not ready.
Also wonder if now with Jones/Graham locked in as PG corps can you run Blake Wesley at SG to mute his difficulty with ball handling primarily and just let Blake run.
Blake could still work on bringing it up occasionally but still have an official PG out there too so it's not his full duty. He can run and get exp in a more controlled environment and maybe stumble upon his confidence and discover his PG skills without being thrown into the lions den completely which could stunt his development
I would bet Blake gets a lot of time in GLeauge. I don’t think, that unless Tre is injured that Wesley gets many minutes at all even with Josh gone. At least not until very end of season last 10 games or something. Spurs seem pretty committed to getting him lots of PG reps in Austin while Branham/Sochan have clear roles with main club.
Most players need some buffer or connective tissue in order to develop. Normally you can't just throw players in there. Certainly not for later picks who need to grow. You can easily defeat some players by not giving them a chance to learn and succeed. I'd hate for Wesley to just be thrown to the wolves.
I like your thoughts. The team doesn't need a Josh Richardson type (and he was gone anyway), they now need ballhandling as a lead guard.
As for Tre Jones I think he gets resigned. SpursTalk has decided they hate him, which I don't understand. He's been a good Spur who did way better stepping in for Dejounte this year than I expected. He'll get a bump in pay but I don't think anything overwhelming.
Graham does fit a need! And his partially guaranteed deal will be useful the summer following this.
Play him, of course, until some other player can take over as pg. An odd question.
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Can't be wrong tbh.
If he can show any ability to consistently run traditional PG duties it makes it much easier to not overpay Tre Jones this summer which as it stands might make sense for the sake of continuity and team development.
Wesley, if even shows a propensity to become a PG is 2 years away from being 2 years away. Branham is probably best suited as an instant offense combo guard.
You’re an idiot. How is anyone “wrong” here? Not I nor you are wrong. This is subjective. You seem very upset that I have my takes that you dont agree with. You cannot be wrong, its is me and Hollinger that just dont understand and have invalid perspectives! And when someone points out that they in fact do have others that agree with them it’s them saying they can’t be wrong even though I’m exhibiting the same behavior.
Cognitive dissonance at its finest.
^Reason I stopped posting as much on here tbh…too many idiots. Normally being an idiot is ok, but your personalities are so unpleasant & unfunny it’s not worth it. Can’t handle strong opinions & there is no real discourse outside of Chinook and a few other good posters which makes it vanilla and pointless to even try and enjoy things beyond “good shot!”
If teams didn’t know DJ was available, then that is on their dumb asses, considering it was talked about on social media for days before it happened. Surely every team has at least one person with a Twitter account on their staff.
So… you’re just upset some people are overpaid? It’s not like it’s your money. And despite what we want to pretend, there isn’t an opportunity cost to their salaries. Spurs effectively have infinite cap room.
I understand wanting to use our Cap/Floor space, which we totally DID NOT do despite people on this message board condescendingly insist we would. That also is what I wish we could have done better… but I’m also not sure what salary dumps were really out there. Wiseman was the obvious one, but the Warriors somehow, someway, managed to get positive value for him - which is amazing to me. I would have needed FRPs to come with him to bail out GS.
What we do not know, and will never know, is if any salary dump opportunities were really out there.
-Wiseman: Worries ended up with positive value
-Westbrook: Somehow, the Lakers managed to improve their team significantly and get off Russ’s deal, and the FRP they gave up is on terms that aren’t great for the receiving team (though still not the worst… way better than the CHA pick we have)
-Simmons: was there any deal? Marks may be looking at Ben being a valuable piece of their rebuild at this point, especially with the other surrounding pieces they amassed in blowing it up. I don’t think BKY is actually that bad, might actually be a fun team
-Hayward: have heard about him, but CHA is in no position to be paying to dump salary
What obvious salary dumps do we feel we missed out on? Atlanta can’t find a home for John Collins, but he still has what… 2 or 3 years left on his deal? That would have been tough to swallow, and what does ATL even have left to give us beside a zillion SRPs?
Have you ever negotiated anything in your life? LOL
THEY WEREN’T OFFERING THEIR FIRSTS. , even Utah got only a one year shot at a 1-4 protected pick.
That's not how trades work
NBA teams don't see a tweet and then tell their GM to get on the phone
That's like me saying Lebron is available and 28 teams start calling the lakers
Sorry meant I like LA 2nds better (even though it was only 2)
So you listed the dumps we missed out on…dont need to cover that.
I explained a lot why I disagree with just always defaulting to “who cares if guys have negative value and are overpaid” is wrong mindset and the costs (even if very minor costs). Don’t need to re-hash it. Spurs can have infinite cap space AND more interesting players was my over arching point. There is an opportunity cost there and in future value; yall just dont think it’s a big deal which I always said is fair. I just disagree with that POV.
Spurs didnt optimize their situation. Spurs did well overall. I believe both thing’s simultaneously but I no longer want to discuss because its pointless and just leads to stupidity (not from you)
Zion is looking as fragile as ever, and by 2028, McCollum will be 37, ‘Chunis will be 36, and BI will be 31.
they have the draft capital to reload quite a bit
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