Moving into the Top Ten or Lottery

[rascal]

2 picks and Keldon for scoot I’d get.

But if we’re offering Keldon plus 2 firsts for a pick that is 7-12 we’re idiots. Nothing in that range is worth 2 firsts and a proven player on a killer contract.

2 firsts and a swap for a 7-10 picks is fine by me.

Teams want a player better than Keldon for the 2 or 3 pick. Especially Portland, they are not looking for future picks but an all star level or slightly lower than all star level veteran and I'm sure it wouldn't be Keldon.

[BacktoBasics]

Cason Wallace and Hood Schifino are a pass from me, whenever I've watched them play I didn't come away super impressed.
Anthony Black I love, but I concur 100% he's going to Washington or Utah at 8/9 at the lowest. I think a realistic trade up should target picks 6 (Orlando) and 7 (Indiana). With that said, Indiana needs a PF and I'd be SHOCKED if they move the pick instead of taking one of Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendricks or Jarace Walker. Orlando I could see moving the pick if the price is right, because they have 11 where they could target need (Gradey ?). Their core is set so they need pieces, maybe Keldon Johnson + future first (ideally Charlotte, realistically likely Toronto) would be an enticing offer for that pick, I think Keldon would be much more efficient alongside Banchero and Wagner than he was this past season.
For Bufkin, I think he's a late lottery / mid teens prospect, with a strong fit in Toronto at 13. We could go to Dallas for 10 for maybe Keldon Johnson, but I'm not sure I'd use 10 on Bufkin, I'm more inclined to wait to see if he falls a bit and then if he does you can put together a more reasonable offer for a lower pick, like Atlanta at 15 or Lakers at 17.
I left Amen Thompson for last. I've been saying time and again that I didn't want Amen Thompson to be our top pick. With that said, if the Spurs are truly enamored with him, Houston is rumored to be willing to move the pick for win now pieces. I don't know that we have such pieces, they need to balance out the roster and that requires playmaking, which we don't have in excess. A Derrick White or Dejounte could have been appealing to them, for instance, but right now in terms of value maybe Vassell + 1st would be fair but I don't think they'd do it because of fit.
All in all, I'd be open to opportunities, but those PG options you mention seem pretty difficult / expensive to me. And to be fair, no, I can't come up with a much better one off the top of my head. But some may open up, you never know.
Lastly, I would take a look at Judah Mintz and Marcus Sasser in the 2nd round, not in the same tier, but maybe attainable with either of our seconds which would make for a much more affordable gamble.

Right now we have Keldon and Vassell that can carry the scoring load. If you move one of them for a prospect you’re not getting back that same or anywhere near that production.

It’s a step backwards.

So many ty teams struggle with prospect overload and a lack of legitimate production.

What are you going to get from 6 or 7 that would even remotely replace the consistency of Keldon.

Wemby is gonna greatly benefit from having a team around him that takes pressure off. Removing our arguably best and most consistent scorer for players that will be picked in a range we all just got done suggesting we should trade out of seems dumb.

Most of us argued that after 4 there’s a drop off and 5-10 are interchangeable and not really game changer type material. If we landed 4-7 most wanted to trade that pick.

Now we wanna give up our most consistent offensive player and picks to get back a potential project.

[DPG21920]

I don't think Keldon has as much value as Spurstalk thinks he has.

That package won't get you 2 or 3. Those teams are going to want players like Mikal Bridges or Siakam back for the 2nd or third pick in this year's draft.
I'm seing on Portland boards, that's what they want for 3.

Agree - don’t think its enough but you never know.

What about Doug McDermott, Keldon & 1 ATL pick + the CHA pick? POR gets immediate real depth and picks they can use to trade further etc…maybe that does it?

[rascal]

Suddenly Spurstalk doesn't want to part with any of the current roster.

This roster outside of Wemby is bad. Along with Houston the Spurs(outside of Wemby) are the least talented team in the league

[rascal]

Agree - don’t think its enough but you never know.

What about Doug McDermott, Keldon & 1 ATL pick + the CHA pick? POR gets immediate real depth and picks they can use to trade further etc…maybe that does it?

Doubt it. Like I said Portland wants to add quality(an all star to win now) not quan iy or future draft picks.
I don't see any trade between the Spurs and Portland. Portland will have better trade partners(Toronto) to work a trade with.

[BacktoBasics]

Suddenly Spurstalk doesn't want to part with any of the current roster.

This roster outside of Wemby is bad. Along with Houston the Spurs(outside of Wemby) are the least talented team in the league

I think I probably stand alone on that. I have little interest in trading Keldon but the consensus here is to move him for the 6-7 pick. I’m not overvaluing him. I’d move him for the 3rd pick. But nothing after 4 is worth it.

You’re not getting any production back and Keldon is a contributing player that will take pressure off of Wemby right away.

I don’t think Keldon is Siakam or Bridges. But his value is greater than whitmore, Hendricks, jarice etc.

I’m fine to overpay with draft picks to get back in but I see nothing 5-10 that even remotely replaces what Keldon brings.

There’s a greater chance that 5-10 don’t even end up at keldons level.

[Ariel]

Right now we have Keldon and Vassell that can carry the scoring load. If you move one of them for a prospect you’re not getting back that same or anywhere near that production.

It’s a step backwards.

So many ty teams struggle with prospect overload and a lack of legitimate production.

What are you going to get from 6 or 7 that would even remotely replace the consistency of Keldon.

Wemby is gonna greatly benefit from having a team around him that takes pressure off. Removing our arguably best and most consistent scorer for players that will be picked in a range we all just got done suggesting we should trade out of seems dumb.

Most of us argued that after 4 there’s a drop off and 5-10 are interchangeable and not really game changer type material. If we landed 4-7 most wanted to trade that pick.

Now we wanna give up our most consistent offensive player and picks to get back a potential project.

I'm not advocating for all those scenarios, some of them (like moving him to land Bufkin) is more of an exercise of what it would take as proposed in the first post, rather than an endorsement. With that said, if you think someone's upside is high enough (say Amen Thompson or Black) and you need to move Keldon for that, you do it. He's not that special to keep you from adding a high upside, long term starter if that's how they're deemed.

[mo7888]

Doubt it. Like I said Portland wants to add quality(an all star to win now) not quan iy or future draft picks.
I don't see any trade between the Spurs and Portland. Portland will have better trade partners(Toronto) to work a trade with.

What would Toronto Realistically offer? They aren't attaching future firsts in a trade because getting #3 is tantamount to a rebuild and their first would be valuable in that scenario. They can offer Siakim, but is he alone worth #3? Or more to the point, is he worth more than KJ, the Charlotte pick + 1 ATL pick? I don't think so...

[Mr. Body]

Cason Wallace and Hood Schifino are a pass from me, whenever I've watched them play I didn't come away super impressed.
Anthony Black I love, but I concur 100% he's going to Washington or Utah at 8/9 at the lowest. I think a realistic trade up should target picks 6 (Orlando) and 7 (Indiana). With that said, Indiana needs a PF and I'd be SHOCKED if they move the pick instead of taking one of Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendricks or Jarace Walker. Orlando I could see moving the pick if the price is right, because they have 11 where they could target need (Gradey ?). Their core is set so they need pieces, maybe Keldon Johnson + future first (ideally Charlotte, realistically likely Toronto) would be an enticing offer for that pick, I think Keldon would be much more efficient alongside Banchero and Wagner than he was this past season.
For Bufkin, I think he's a late lottery / mid teens prospect, with a strong fit in Toronto at 13. We could go to Dallas for 10 for maybe Keldon Johnson, but I'm not sure I'd use 10 on Bufkin, I'm more inclined to wait to see if he falls a bit and then if he does you can put together a more reasonable offer for a lower pick, like Atlanta at 15 or Lakers at 17.
I left Amen Thompson for last. I've been saying time and again that I didn't want Amen Thompson to be our top pick. With that said, if the Spurs are truly enamored with him, Houston is rumored to be willing to move the pick for win now pieces. I don't know that we have such pieces, they need to balance out the roster and that requires playmaking, which we don't have in excess. A Derrick White or Dejounte could have been appealing to them, for instance, but right now in terms of value maybe Vassell + 1st would be fair but I don't think they'd do it because of fit.
All in all, I'd be open to opportunities, but those PG options you mention seem pretty difficult / expensive to me. And to be fair, no, I can't come up with a much better one off the top of my head. But some may open up, you never know.
Lastly, I would take a look at Judah Mintz and Marcus Sasser in the 2nd round, not in the same tier, but maybe attainable with either of our seconds which would make for a much more affordable gamble.

Good thoughts, and not only because we pretty much agree! I keep hearing about Cason Wallace. I wonder how much of that is the "Kentucky guards" thing, where they overperform their college stock once in the NBA (Booker, Herro).

Agree completely on Indiana. They're getting Wallace or Hendricks, maybe Whitmore, and will be pumped. They have to be happy about where they are.

Unsure about Orlando. I'm not sure they really do want that #6, primarily because of who is there, since they're stocked with forwards. I would give a couple of firsts to get there, but they'd need a real piece like Keldon, as you say. If my sense is that the Spurs really value Black, they may really try.

I do like Bufkin, but am unsure what I'd give up for him. He could be very undervalued. Those late lottery picks feel like they'd be hard to jar loose. Dallas's is more possible, just don't think they'd want Keldon or he's worth trading for Bufkin. As for using that pick for Bufkin, I don't mind if he's supposedly projected a bit later.

Amen Thompson - there's probably going to be a splashy bidding war if that spot is auctioned. I seriously disliked going after him if that was our own pick. With Wmby we have the luxury to try things out, but I still feel the salary cost is above where I place him as a player.

I'm not hugely enamored of the later PGs but a Sasser could be a good stopgap talent.

[CGD]

Doubt it. Like I said Portland wants to add quality(an all star to win now) not quan iy or future draft picks.
I don't see any trade between the Spurs and Portland. Portland will have better trade partners(Toronto) to work a trade with.

Man, Portland would be in a much better place if they drafted Scoot and got a boat load of picks
for Dame in a trade. It’s time for them to change course, and Scoot/Sharpe backcourt would be a of a start. Or better yet Simons/Sharpe/Miller.

[rascal]

Right now we have Keldon and Vassell that can carry the scoring load. If you move one of them for a prospect you’re not getting back that same or anywhere near that production.

It’s a step backwards.

So many ty teams struggle with prospect overload and a lack of legitimate production.

What are you going to get from 6 or 7 that would even remotely replace the consistency of Keldon.

Wemby is gonna greatly benefit from having a team around him that takes pressure off. Removing our arguably best and most consistent scorer for players that will be picked in a range we all just got done suggesting we should trade out of seems dumb.

Most of us argued that after 4 there’s a drop off and 5-10 are interchangeable and not really game changer type material. If we landed 4-7 most wanted to trade that pick.

Now we wanna give up our most consistent offensive player and picks to get back a potential project.

You will probably get a better player than either of those guys with the right trade.

Both KJ and Vassell are role players I don't see ever being good enough to be all stars.

I'd rather take a shot at Cam Whitmore than either of those guys. You couldn't get into the top ten by offering Keldon or Vassell in a trade.

[rascal]

Man, Portland would be in a much better place if they drafted Scoot and got a boat load of picks
for Dame in a trade. It’s time for them to change course, and Scoot/Sharpe backcourt would be a of a start. Or better yet Simons/Sharpe/Miller.

They still are trying to win with Dame.

[BackHome]

Based on what? Sochan is more the Bruce Bowen who picks up the best offensive player on the other team than he is Duncan playing the 4 next to the number of other bigs we had over the years.

Sochan isn’t picking up AD, Embiid, Sabonis if Wemby is on the floor.

Well your starting 5 has Sochan and Wemb. so I guess you want Wemb. to guard Embiid and Sanbonis good luck with that as he will get his chest caved in his first season guarding those two.

[offset formation]

Man, Portland would be in a much better place if they drafted Scoot and got a boat load of picks
for Dame in a trade. It’s time for them to change course, and Scoot/Sharpe backcourt would be a of a start. Or better yet Simons/Sharpe/Miller.

I feel like they're in a loyalty pact with one another though. Can't see Portlands ownership trading him unless he asked them.

[BacktoBasics]

You will probably get a better player than either of those guys with the right trade.

Both KJ and Vassell are role players I don't see ever being good enough to be all stars.

I'd rather take a shot at Cam Whitmore than either of those guys. You couldn't get into the top ten by offering Keldon or Vassell in a trade.

Cam is a black hole that has no concept of team yet. He needs a few years of coaching and lot of development.

I don’t care about AS appearances tbh. You have two 20ppg scorers that perfectly complement Wemby and give him a nice easy entry into the league.

You need to return proven talent not hoop dreams if you’re gonna move a productive player off this current roster.

Nothing more foolish that trading away your teams leading scorer and putting that burden on Wemby. Or Vassell for that matter.

Witmore is coming into to league and producing right away. I doubt he averages more 10 a game.

[Mr. Body]

Portland and Lillard are lilke two tangled-up skydivers, each refusing to open their parachute.

[rascal]

I think I probably stand alone on that. I have little interest in trading Keldon but the consensus here is to move him for the 6-7 pick. I’m not overvaluing him. I’d move him for the 3rd pick. But nothing after 4 is worth it.

You’re not getting any production back and Keldon is a contributing player that will take pressure off of Wemby right away.

I don’t think Keldon is Siakam or Bridges. But his value is greater than whitmore, Hendricks, jarice etc.

I’m fine to overpay with draft picks to get back in but I see nothing 5-10 that even remotely replaces what Keldon brings.

There’s a greater chance that 5-10 don’t even end up at keldons level.

I disagree. I'd rather have Whitmore, Hendricks or Walker for their upside. The Spurs aren't playing for next year.
They are trying to build a team for the future and those guys have more potential upside than Keldon.

[rascal]

Cam is a black hole that has no concept of team yet. He needs a few years of coaching and lot of development.

I don’t care about AS appearances tbh. You have two 20ppg scorers that perfectly complement Wemby and give him a nice easy entry into the league.

You need to return proven talent not hoop dreams if you’re gonna move a productive player off this current roster.

Nothing more foolish that trading away your teams leading scorer and putting that burden on Wemby. Or Vassell for that matter.

Witmore is coming into to league and producing right away. I doubt he averages more 10 a game.

Again the Spurs are not playing for next year.

They are playing for the future so you go with higher upside players. Cam is going to be better than Keldon.

[BacktoBasics]

I disagree. I'd rather have Whitmore, Hendricks or Walker for their upside. The Spurs aren't playing for next year.
They are trying to build a team for the future and those guys have more potential upside than Keldon.

Not really. Other than a long shot in cam neither of those were projected to be AS.

You’re also missing the point. I’m not arguing that we’re playing for next year. I’m arguing that lightening the load for Wemby now will pay dividends later. Surrounding him by a bunch of prospects is stupid and wishful video game thinking. While overburdening your potential franchise player on day 1.

We can package up all kinds of over the next 3 years. The best move is to give Wemby a nice landing spot with proven talent and be patient for the right upgrade.

Dumping our best scorer for an unknown is dumb. Unless it’s something like scoot etc. I’ll concede that.

[Mr. Body]

I disagree. I'd rather have Whitmore, Hendricks or Walker for their upside. The Spurs aren't playing for next year.
They are trying to build a team for the future and those guys have more potential upside than Keldon.

It's fascinating seeing you get fixated on the wrong players for the Spurs. I wonder what type it'll be next year.

[DPG21920]

Doubt it. Like I said Portland wants to add quality(an all star to win now) not quan iy or future draft picks.
I don't see any trade between the Spurs and Portland. Portland will have better trade partners(Toronto) to work a trade with.

1) Which all stars seem available for trade?

2) Is pick 3 in this draft THAT valuable (Miller or Amen)? You think teams with all stars will value Amen for their all star? Maybe, I’m legit interested to see.

3) They very well may have better trade partners, but not many have the extra picks + good players like Spurs. If you can get solid real depth + draft capital to either use later if Dame bails or trade further? Might be appealing especially if theres too many sellers and not enough buyers.

PS: I would not do that deal if I were the Spurs unless Scoot fell to 3. I’m not trading Keldon + Doug + 2 firsts to gamble on Amen personally. It’s not unreasonable and I would not be “mad” but Keldon is a very good player with real value on a real solid deal.

[rascal]

I remember the last playin game the Spurs were in against NO and Keldon disappeared when the team needed him after Murray went out with foul trouble.

Keldon is just too inconsistent and unreliable to be counted on. There is a reason the Spurs had such a bad record. Their best players aren't very good(Keldon) and their rookies weren't ready yet.

[rascal]

It's fascinating seeing you get fixated on the wrong players for the Spurs. I wonder what type it'll be next year.

You're fixated on wrong players.

Everyone has their opinion.

[BacktoBasics]

I remember the last playin game the Spurs were in against NO and Keldon disappeared when the team needed him after Murray went out with foul trouble.

Keldon is just too inconsistent and unreliable to be counted on. There is a reason the Spurs had such a bad record. Their best players aren't very good(Keldon) and their rookies weren't ready yet.

They held guys out over hang nails. We were tanking. I never realized how bad your takes are sometimes. He’s hardly inconsistent.

[Stump]

I think I probably stand alone on that. I have little interest in trading Keldon but the consensus here is to move him for the 6-7 pick. I’m not overvaluing him. I’d move him for the 3rd pick. But nothing after 4 is worth it.

You’re not getting any production back and Keldon is a contributing player that will take pressure off of Wemby right away.

I don’t think Keldon is Siakam or Bridges. But his value is greater than whitmore, Hendricks, jarice etc.

I’m fine to overpay with draft picks to get back in but I see nothing 5-10 that even remotely replaces what Keldon brings.

There’s a greater chance that 5-10 don’t even end up at keldons level.

I'm in agreement with you. No one below Scoot makes sense to get rid of a reliable young contributor on a good contract.

Would Portland even value him? They may want an all-star player but you have to actually find a team who is willing to trade one away. Keldon + picks would probably not be on their top tier of desirable returns, but they might settle on it if other offers don't work out. For the Spurs, you offer Keldon, let Portland do their due diligence, and then don't sweat it if they don't call you back.