Flynn in major trouble for speaking to Russia about sanctions

[TSA]

pure bull mixed with a bunch of deflections about what the FBI did. That has nothing to do with the finding of no collusion. The FBI has been exposed for very little comparatively. Its nothing new to have rogue elements. What you put up is minor league comparatively.
Trump and his stupid ramblings beg to be investigated you fkn idiot.
Thats why the Mar a Lago stuff should be a slam dunk if we actually get a sane jury.
Trump outs himself. He has always asked to be investigated.

You bring up Russia interfering in our election and I agreed. I bring up Hillary paying foreign nationals to interfere in our election and you dissemble. You're a disingenuous fraud.

[TSA]

And with that power and access, he didn't discover anything actionable Horowitz didn't already discover. At the end of the day, Clinesmith was the only guilty party, something that came directly from Horowitz.



It's built on your premise, which I'm pointing out is indeed dumb. You're the one advancing Durham must be correct and anybody that disagrees is completely wrong (your words) because he "had access to evidence/testimony" and "have power of grand jury to produce evidence/testimony."

So under your premise, if Durham is correct on Barr, Mueller and election interference, Trump is completely wrong on that, right?

You're trying to drag this into the weeds when my statement of Horowitz being wrong was specific to the investigation being properly predicated.

[TSA]

Mueller certainly did put people in jail as part of his Russian interference investigation. Both him and Durham agreed that Russian interference was indeed real and had substantial evidence. So it wasn't all bull . Again, people don't go to jail for bull .

If you want to constrict this to just collusion with Russia, that's your thing, but that wasn't merely the extent of the Mueller investigation, as you know very well.

You're also incorrect on Durham. Durham did say a preliminary investigation should've been opened. What he disagreed with was on a full investigation.

I'm not incorrect on Durham. Crossfire Hurricane was not a preliminary investigation, it was a full investigation. Crossfire Hurricane was not properly predicated therefore it should never have been opened. No clue why you are trying to argue this point.

[TSA]

Why does his presence in the country have anything to do with the veracity of the report? Did you read the report/dossier at all?

That is some more of what was confirmed by the do ent.

Every WHO mentioned in this dossier as having contacts with Russians that people have done any digging about has panned out. I care less about grammar, and more about things that can be verified.

The dossier, for all its faults, is the roadmap for the investigation.

Steele's dossier describes a consistent, high-level effort to coordinate efforts between the Russian government, and the Trump campaign. It names Manafort directly.

The same Manafort at the meeting in Trump tower.

As would be expected with any raw intelligence compilation some of it has been actively corroborated, some not, but the overall assertions contained in this, outside of the pee tape, have begun to be borne out.

If you haven't actually read the whole thing, you probably should.

The Steele Dossier is evidence. Not evidence you like, or consider valid, but it is evidence.

What is interesting is how many things that can be corroborated out of the Steele dossier have panned out, as time goes by.

At this point, I am sadly confident that, as soon as Trump is out of office and not useful to the Russian government anymore, sex tapes of Donny are going to come out.

Pretty much what the Steele dossier alleges. A sustained effort of coordination and intelligence sharing.

Steele dossier details a sustained relationship, with information flowing both ways, and meetings between Trump campaign and various levels of campaign officials.

After Trump has ceased being useful, whatever the Russians have has a good chance of coming out. Putin has enough money, so he might not care if Trumps businesses don't pay back the loans.

At that point, the sheer mayhem that such tapes would create will be irresistible to someone attempting to de-stabilize the western political system, and liberal democracy.

I think the Steele dossier is broadly accurate, as it has proven so far.

Russian intelligence has compromised Donald Trump in some way, and Crooked Donny knows this.

As noted in the dossier, there has been a concerted effort on the part of Russian intelligence services to recruit assets for decades, as they have always done.

Specifically, I think they have given Trump a list of people they find "acceptable" for certain posts, with the criteria "acceptable" being that these people are either Russia-friendly or the Russians have leverage on them. This would explain how so many people in Trumps orbit just "happen" to have Russian ties.

Below Trump there was data flowing back and forth, again outlined fairly clearly in the dossier.

They used data garnered from the RNC databases to give to the Russians for their targeted disinformation campaign. The campaign staff also was used as a conduit to give information on Russian oligarch economic activity to Putin, so he can keep tabs on his "allies".

This was outlined in the Steele Dossier, if you had read it. The attempts by Carter Page and Manafort to coordinate with the Russians was part of that, and both were mentioned, as one of the facts that actually panned out from this do ent.

Cir stantial ad hominem

Funding source is irrelevant to underlying truth of any claims in them.

I told your dumb ass to look this up, but you can't seem to pass up an opportunity to play in your own waste.

Fallacy occurs when someone uses unsound reasoning to support a claim or argument. Cir stantial Ad Hominem occurs when someone attacks a claim by saying that the person making the claim is only making it because it's in his/her interest or because of his/her cir stances.

Correct critical thinking answer to your question is: Doesn't really matter.


Is the do ent false because of who paid for it?

Steele's contacts were somewhat unique, which is why he was brought in.
Quote Originally Posted by RandomGuy
I find it... bizarre... how badly the right wants Steele to be some sort of villain here. Steele has paid an incredible price, as have some of his likely sources[Russian KGB general murdered, spy and daughter poisoned], for coming forward.

IF that dossier was made up out of whole cloth.. Russian intelligence certainly seems to be awfully determined to kill people it knows weren't involved... just sayin

Can you provide some background information on how you came to the conclusion that the FISA warrant "heavily relied" on the Steele Dossier?

That is the problem for the people saying how politically motivated this thing is so it isn't trustworthy.

Everything that can be verified, has been.

Oddly enough, everything in the Steele dossier that can be independently verified... checks out.

So basically the Steele Dossier was right, and the more they dug, the more stuff of what he was doing they found, exactly what one would expect from someone actually doing something wrong that is investigated.

Steele is very credible. That is why you fail.

There has already been collusion, you witted simpleton.

The Steele dossier outlined a bunch of people in Trumps orbit, including Cohen who met with various Russian officials. Every single one of those meetings was confirmed to one degree or another, but they could never quite find enough on Cohen to 100% confirm it. *from what was available publicly.

So now, Cohen is going to detail just how he committed treason with the S bag Donny.

trying to laugh it all off.

You are one deluded chicken er.

Steele Dossier is batting 100% when it comes to outlining people related to Trump that colluded with Russia in some way.

What will your dumb ass say when Cohen starts talking about his meeting in Prague, moron?

I think, as the Steele dossier said waaaay back, that there was some high level coordination of efforts, i.e. collusion, with Russian intelligence. I guessed it was data sharing, because there were and are open source reports of such. We are starting to see that, like just about everything else that can be verified, pan out.

RandomGuy I see you lurking. Which of these do regret saying the most?

[spurraider21]

Mueller didn't put anyone in jail for colluding with Russia...aka Russiagate. Mueller stated no one colluded with Russia. Durham went further and said Crossfire Hurricane was not properly predicated and should never have been opened based on the evidence they used. Darrin is correct. It was all bulll .

mueller stated that they did not establish evidence of it, and also noted there was a lot of obstruction in their investigation and all but said that there was actionable obstruction of justice

[Winehole23]

TSA can't tell a straight tale

[TSA]

mueller stated that they did not establish evidence of it, and also noted there was a lot of obstruction in their investigation and all but said that there was actionable obstruction of justice

If you want to nitpick at least be consistent and nitpick with others stating the same as me.

Trump did NOT make plans with Russia to help win in 2016.

Mueller's investigation never should have happened in the first place so his thoughts on obstruction of justice don't carry any weight for me.

[ChumpDumper]

Mueller's investigation never should have happened in the first place so his thoughts on obstruction of justice don't carry any weight for me.

In your opinion, has Trump ever committed any crime in his life?

[spurraider21]

Mueller's investigation never should have happened in the first place so his thoughts on obstruction of justice don't carry any weight for me.

lmao

[Winehole23]

If you want to nitpick at least be consistent and nitpick with others stating the same as me.



Mueller's investigation never should have happened in the first place so his thoughts on obstruction of justice don't carry any weight for me.

why were so many people willing to risk jail time lying to investigators? if there was nothing to hide, why lie so much about it?

[Spurs Homer]

His conclusion is that Trump did NOT collude with Russia.
Biden can call for another investigation after he wins the election if he wants.
And the blue team should have zero reason to not have the House and Senate behind him if Trump is the red team candidate.
There should be no reason for the blue team to overwhelming go after a new investigation if collusion is a slam dunk.

And spying between Russia and the US is ongoing. We know Chinese spies were at Mar a Lago. We dont know what they got out with.
If you know Russia was given vital secrets to Russia lets see the evidence. I imagine Russia has gotten a lot more through "standard" channels just like we get from their defectors and such.

mueller (again) did NOT conclude that trump and russia did not collude

he concluded that a trump and russia CONSPIRACY was not able to be proven in court as there is a really high bar and all his ducks were not in a row - MAINLY BECAUSE EVERY TRUMP TEAM MEMBER LIED about their contacts including trump

he did conclude that THERE WAS PLENTY OF ILLICIT CONTACTS between trump/russia with russia helping trump and hurting hrc

and trump team willingly accepting the help

the reason trump and russia ingrained the word “collusion” in our language/culture is because they are well aware that “collusion” is not an actual law that can be obeyed or broken

but the examples i gave already many times are the definition of collusion

they were playing for the same team - trump and russia

trumpers and russians always point to “no collusion” as if that makes trumps unpatriotic actions acceptable

they are not


as for classified docs in russias hands- we dont know yet- hopefully jack smith uncovers trumps treasonous actions regarding his stealing of the usa secrets

[TSA]

I see you again lurking RandomGuy. Stop being such a pussy and tell me which of your Steele sucking quotes you regret the most. I'll keep posting your quotes on every new page until you answer.

[Spurs Homer]

I see you again lurking RandomGuy. Stop being such a pussy and tell me which of your Steele sucking quotes you regret the most. I'll keep posting your quotes on every new page until you answer.

what makes you continue to defend the guy that attacked our democracy by orchestrating a coup and then watching for three hours while capitol police were being attacked?

why are you rooting for the enemies of the usa?

[Chucho]

Russia interfered with our elections in 2016.

What was the measurable effect their interference had in the election? Do you really think Russian bots running ads and smears like all Murican politicians do, swung the election in Trump's favor?

The Dem's racist candidate picked the wrong time to be a self-hating white hypocrite who alienated most of her would-be supporters by calling them deplorable and choked a 7-10 point lead 1 week into the election.

You guys got to stop running old racists who hate blacks and gays in the past but lie about it today. It was socially acceptable for Democrats to be openly racist and bigoted in the 90s and 00's, but yuse guys really got to cut that out, if not, just admit you're no different than Repubs.

[ChumpDumper]

What was the measurable effect their interference had in the election? Do you really think Russian bots running ads and smears like all Murican politicians do, swung the election in Trump's favor?

The Dem's racist candidate picked the wrong time to be a self-hating white hypocrite who alienated most of her would-be supporters by calling them deplorable and choked a 7-10 point lead 1 week into the election.

I guess -- but all it really takes to swing an election is less than 100,000 votes. It's not inconceivable to think facebook posting alone could do that.

And 1 week out was when the Comey announcement about heremails was made....

[Chucho]

I guess -- but all it really takes to swing an election is less than 100,000 votes. It's not inconceivable to think facebook posting alone could do that.

And 1 week out was when the Comey announcement about heremails was made....

Your team ran a racist who thought people didn't have memories going back 20 years. She said publicly she was sick to her stomach at the idea of gay marriage. She said a lot of things the Blue team stood by 20 years ago that y'all try and shame people for today, especially during her run.

It was a bad choice and Team Blue running such an awful candidate was more responsible for their loss than anything else. I guess running racist, biggoted crooks isn't exclusive to either side, to be fair.

[ChumpDumper]

Your team ran a racist who thought people didn't have memories going back 20 years. She said publicly she was sick to her stomach at the idea of gay marriage. She said a lot of things the Blue team stood by 20 years ago that y'all try and shame people for today, especially during her run.

It was a bad choice and Team Blue running such an awful candidate was more responsible for their loss than anything else. I guess running racist, biggoted crooks isn't exclusive to either side, to be fair.

I'm not denying she was a bad candidate -- any woman is a "bad" candidate for POTUS in this country. I'm just saying in a close race it doesn't take much to influence the results. Many of the reasons people cited for not voting for Hillary were just made up fantasies that were indeed found in the posts.

[Spurs Homer]

What was the measurable effect their interference had in the election? Do you really think Russian bots running ads and smears like all Murican politicians do, swung the election in Trump's favor?

The Dem's racist candidate picked the wrong time to be a self-hating white hypocrite who alienated most of her would-be supporters by calling them deplorable and choked a 7-10 point lead 1 week into the election.

You guys got to stop running old racists who hate blacks and gays in the past but lie about it today. It was socially acceptable for Democrats to be openly racist and bigoted in the 90s and 00's, but yuse guys really got to cut that out, if not, just admit you're no different than Repubs.

here is the CORRECT question you want to ask:

Disregard what kind of a person/politician/racist/ bag hrc was or was not- that is IRRELEVANT-

and ask- why would any american citizen who was offered help from the russians NOT run immediately to the FBI and report this contact and immediately denounce ANY kind of offers/help/assistance, etc

(you know- the EXACT SAME WAY BERNIE SANDERS DID WHEN ADVISED THAT RUSSIA SUPPORTED HIM)


and what kind of americans posting on the internet twist themselves into a pretzel to explain away and equivocate and defend and whatabout what really happened…

INSTEAD OF LOOKING UNFLINCHINGLY at the trump campaign and denouncing them - AND ONLY THEM - for accepting russias help and then lying to their own govt about their treasonous actions?

[TSA]

What was the measurable effect their interference had in the election? Do you really think Russian bots running ads and smears like all Murican politicians do, swung the election in Trump's favor?

Much less of an effect than in 2020 when the intelligence community put out the statement saying Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation and tech companies and MSM used that to bury the story and label it fake news.

[ChumpDumper]

Much less of an effect than in 2020 when the intelligence community put out the statement saying Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation and tech companies and MSM used that to bury the story and label it fake news.

Doubtful. Anti-Trump sentiment was baked in because he was such a ty president who got thousands of citizens killed because he said stupid .

[TSA]

here is the CORRECT question you want to ask:

Disregard what kind of a person/politician/racist/ bag hrc was or was not- that is IRRELEVANT-

and ask- why would any american citizen who was offered help from the russians NOT run immediately to the FBI and report this contact and immediately denounce ANY kind of offers/help/assistance, etc

(you know- the EXACT SAME WAY BERNIE SANDERS DID WHEN ADVISED THAT RUSSIA SUPPORTED HIM)


and what kind of americans posting on the internet twist themselves into a pretzel to explain away and equivocate and defend and whatabout what really happened…

INSTEAD OF LOOKING UNFLINCHINGLY at the trump campaign and denouncing them - AND ONLY THEM - for accepting russias help and then lying to their own govt about their treasonous actions?

Hillary's campaign paid a foreign national to interfere in the 2016 election and you are okay with that. All of your whining is falling on deaf ears.

[Ef-man]

TSA can't tell a straight tale

A twitter wall of "if's" and disingenuous posts should satisfy any conspiracy theorist.

Why don't people take him seriously?

Answer me!! Answer me!!!

[Spurs Homer]

Hillary's campaign paid a foreign national to interfere in the 2016 election and you are okay with that. All of your whining is falling on deaf ears.

there is another pretzel twist of propaganda…

why are you still defending the guy indicted under the espionage act who already attempted a coup?

Run away from the question again, pussy traitor.

[ElNono]

You're trying to drag this into the weeds when my statement of Horowitz being wrong was specific to the investigation being properly predicated.

But it isn't wrong, because "properly predicated" in that context is merely an opinion. In terms of illegality or criminality, there was none, otherwise Durham would've prosecuted.

He didn't, because despite whatever tools were afforded to him, there was nothing illegal there. I know this doesn't work for your conspiracy of a shadow and corrupt FBI, but it is what it is.

Outside of Clinesmith, the other two cases he prosecuted were for lying to the FBI, which he couldn't prove.

Under the same premise and with the results at hand, one could also conclude that the Durham investigation was also not "properly predicated", considering he didn't find anything improper on it, and that whatever recommendations about internal procedures at the FBI in his report were already in place by the time he made his report available.

I'm not incorrect on Durham. Crossfire Hurricane was not a preliminary investigation, it was a full investigation. Crossfire Hurricane was not properly predicated therefore it should never have been opened. No clue why you are trying to argue this point.

All investigations start as preliminary, then move on to a full investigation if warranted. This isn't rocket science. As Mueller proved and Durham agreed, there was enough evidence of interference to conduct an investigation.

You could argue the investigation shouldn't have included collusion from the GOP, but that's an opinion, nothing more. The allegation was directly tied to interference, so it makes sense it would be investigated as well.

[ElNono]

What was the measurable effect their interference had in the election? Do you really think Russian bots running ads and smears like all Murican politicians do, swung the election in Trump's favor?

The Dem's racist candidate picked the wrong time to be a self-hating white hypocrite who alienated most of her would-be supporters by calling them deplorable and choked a 7-10 point lead 1 week into the election.

You guys got to stop running old racists who hate blacks and gays in the past but lie about it today. It was socially acceptable for Democrats to be openly racist and bigoted in the 90s and 00's, but yuse guys really got to cut that out, if not, just admit you're no different than Repubs.

She was a terrible candidate, there's no spinning that.