Oh, didn't see this.
Yes, I didn't know you could take on salary and picks. All the time I've been in the dozen threads discussing this.
Or maybe you morons don't know how to read context. Goddamn ing idiots.
The eval on Smith was a bit of a wildcard, too, because he was injured in his only college season. It was difficult to get a read on him, but he looked like a high usage guy with serious bust potential. He looked good last night, for sure, but it's summer league. The thing that translates least is scoring. The one on one defense is hit or miss based on the matchup and the team defense is usually a mess.
He's absolutely a PG.... hos injury and playing out of position last year resulted in his fall. Have you looked at him lately.? Hesin great shape and athletic, he's not frail.
There is huge disagreement on this board about what a point guard is. NSJ's size, frailty, and handles might suggest he's a point guard. His inability or inattention to creating plays for others or starting offenses show that he is not. He's an undersized shooting guard with very little facilitation. It's just not his game. Can he develop it? Maybe. At Arkansas, it was clear he couldn't do it and Black ran the offense and Smith played off him.
Just being able to dribble doesn't make a point guard. In the same way Kyrie Irving is not a point guard. You'd be a wreck if you tried to have NSJ running your team.
Where do you get that he's frail?
This board loves Black and he's going to be a solid pro, but without Smith's injury he's not a top 10 pick and definitely behind Smith in the draft. Black will be solid as I said, but Smith has allstar potential. His biggest challenge is overcoming being in Charlotte, but for his sake hopefully their new regime is better and puts more emphasis on development than the previous.
How about this -- a point guard needs to be able to:
(1) penetrate
(2) pass
(3) shoot
(Penetration includes finishing.)
Very simple.
That's all there is (but it's very difficult to find that trifecta). Two out of three won't cut it.
maybe we can get a new Enrique
someone who can be our herro, baby
The Spurs don't need a traditional pass first, old school, PG. They need a point of attack guy that breaks down defenses, commands attention and opens the court for his teammates. Smith isn't a PG, in the same way that Curry, Lillard, Irving, Jamal Murray, etc. aren't PGs either. But that's fine, we need those type of guys, not a 90's Jason Kidd kind.
Well my dad just died. Made it only two and a half months with my mom. Very sad but I guess it's a love story and they always end up sad. There's no real happy endings.
Lose enough this year to draft a top pg next year.
Hopefully we can make a move sooner. There’s so many good point guards in the league, someone with potential like a Suggs or Hayes or an older even better point guard might become available for a song. It happens every year and we are posed to be ready this season all the way through to the trade deadline.
I was entirely on "team tank" last year, but I'm past that now. I don't want to lose a single extra game anymore. We have plenty of options to trade for an established PG. We have plenty of other team's draft picks to draft at a good position regardless of our own record. This next summer is looking good for PG options in the draft even without having a top pick (more PGs than any other position mocked in the 1st round).
A quick look at the PG landscape:
- There are 11 very good to great PG that are 26 years old or younger: Doncic, SGA, Jamal Murray, De'Aaron Fox , Ja Morant, Trae Young, Jalen Brunson, Haliburton, Darius Garland, Dejounte Murray and LaMelo Ball.
- Cade Cunningham and Scoot Henderson should soon join these 11 players.
- There are 5 vets around 32 years old that are still really good: Curry, Lillard, Harden, Jrue Holiday and Kyrie Irving.
- Then, there are the rest: Fred VanVlet, Tre and Tyus Jones, Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Gabe Vincent, D'Angelo Russell, Dennis Schröder, Monte Morris, Spencer Dinwiddie, Markelle Fultz...
I would say Spurs have 3 options:
1) Doing a huge trade to get one of the 13 "great" young PG. If one is available, which isn't the case for the moment, it would take a lot of assets to get him.
2) Sticking with a PG from "the rest" pool of players. Some of them are good players but Spurs would have, by definition, a below average starting PG.
3) Drafting a PG in the 2024 with their own pick who should be really high. This option's interest depends of course on how good is the 2024 Draft at the PG slot.
TLDR = Spurs should’ve traded up this year but blew it, so we have to stick with the below average PG by committee approach this year, including everyone’s favorite “Jeremy Sochan is a PG” fantasy.
I honestly believe that we will make the play-in, and then go to the playoffs this upcoming year, so I don’t expect our draft pick to be high enough to draft a day one impact PG. I have no reason to believe that PATFO won’t surround Wemby with championship pieces the same way they did with Duncan. Just not sure how they’re going to do it, and how long it’s going to take.
We'll need to lose a lot of games to get a good pick in the draft. So I think we roll with Tre and and assess our needs as we go. Wonder if any players are on the FOs radar.
Pop has also stated that he doesn't believe there are PGs.... just perimeter players and interior players. We have an entire roster of players who has "passing" as one of their strengths.
There is truth in this, but a perimeter player needs the skills of a PG.
There are players that fill the role of floor general who don't technically play the point guard position. There are also shooting guards who look to score primarily who have good enough floor leadership and passing that they fill the role of point guard. Steph Curry is a perfect example of this.
Both of those said if you want to have a player who isn't a primary ball handler be the focus of the offense, and that is true of Wemby and to a lesser extent Keldon you need more of a pass first set-up the offense type to be the primary ball handler. I am not against having Tre and Cam Payne play that role this year. I don't think either is the starting PG of a real contender especially long term but do think both are competent enough points for the team this year and both are good enough and young enough to benefit from a year of starting under their belts to be top notch back-ups in the coming years.
Exactly. In certain cases, strict positional classification just gives way to semantical debates.
The reality is, you need a primary initiator. DeRozan, Mitc , Doncic, Jokic, Cunningham, James, Butler, Harden, Booker and Barnes, are examples of players who either already do or are slated to fill that role for their respective teams, yet either never or rarely defend PG's.
Since there is not an obvious current option trade wise, who fits the timeline, to fill that role, the next best option is advantage creator who can shoot (Maxey, Herro, Quickley, Simons) to provide a stopgap without going heliocentric.
Of course, the most likely scenario is them just waiting for the draft.
Last edited by TD 21; 08-05-2023 at 05:35 PM.
Definitely the draft, which is why we should start familiarizing ourselves with ‘24 and ‘25 draft names. Just for perspective, it was a few years before the spurs drafted Parker and we had a very limited floor “general type” running the show well enough until then.
Agreed but we can spare seconds and even the CHA 1st to improve the PG position now. I’m holding my judgement for this offseason/season until I see what the Spurs do with all these extra players. The right PG could:
1. As a PG, help facilitate/compliment our young team and especially Wembanyama.
2. Help teach our next starting PG that is drafted.
3. As a bonus, potentially turn the Spurs into a .500 team which is something none of our young players have even seen.
The last one may seem petty or stupid but I think it’s important to start winning now. Wembanyama made it clear he wants to win and starting the season with Tre Jones definitely doesn’t say that to me.
I disagree with the idea that Tre Jones and Cam Payne can't platoon the starting guard spot of a team right around .500 and in a play in game or two. What I'm more unsure of is if the rest of the roster has enough o get the team there Wemby is a rookie and here will be some issues in becoming an nba player. Devon back from injury is still a bit of a question mark. Sochan has had what offensive development? All of the above worry me more than a journeyman point guard without a 3 ball, or the Cam point guard who has realized that he's not the man but just an everyday guy in the nba. (yet does have a decent 3 ball.)
you just Described Mike Conley.
I don't think we blew it at all.
We're going to lose a lot of games, and that's fine. I'm not proposing tanking by not trying to win, I'm saying roll with our young core, try our hardest, and lose anyway. The over/under in Vegas is 28 1/2 wins. Young teams traditionally become fun to watch first, then learn how to beat veteran teams after a year or two. This year should be way more watchable than last year, but wins are going to be a work in progress. Then we get a great pick next year.
The year I moved to San Antonio, the point guards on the Spurs roster were Rod Strickland, Johnny Moore and Mo Cheeks. I think the Spurs have probably had three traditional point guards TOTAL that come close to any of those guys in the 32 years since.
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