We Still Need a Point Guard

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Just catching up on this thread… so… we still need a point guard right?

[MultiTroll]

Perhaps the FOs timeline is like, yes of course we want a kick ass PG now to pair with Wama, and preferably stay for the next 5-10 years and amass Championships. However since one simply is not available now (unless you know of one and have not posted it on SpursTalk yet) we're not dead set having Wembys 1st year be an end all.

Wait and see how Torontos 1st pick shakes down after the season, and then combined with other huge draft capital perhaps find another Ginobili or Parker in the following year(s).

[JPB]

Perhaps the FOs timeline is like, yes of course we want a kick ass PG now to pair with Wama, and preferably stay for the next 5-10 years and amass Championships. However since one simply is not available now (unless you know of one and have not posted it on SpursTalk yet) we're not dead set having Wembys 1st year be an end all.

Wait and see how Torontos 1st pick shakes down after the season, and then combined with other huge draft capital perhaps find another Ginobili or Parker in the following year(s).

Or trade for Luka within the next 2 years.

I have the feeling it's gonna be a mess with Flat Earther.

[exstatic]

Or trade for Luka within the next 2 years.

I have the feeling it's gonna be a mess with Flat Earther.

They were terrible with both of them on the floor last year, like Spurs/Rockets bad.

[Seventyniner]

They were terrible with both of them on the floor last year, like Spurs/Rockets bad.

Where do you find player pair data like that?

[exstatic]

Where do you find player pair data like that?

Can’t remember the article source. If I think of it, I’ll post the link.

[pad300]

Where do you find player pair data like that?

This is a pretty good place to start,

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/ad...mID=1610612742

although that doesn't back up what exstatic posted...
At 444 minutes together (on the second of 8 pages)
K. Irving - L. Doncic Net Rtg +4.2

[Seventyniner]

This is a pretty good place to start,

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/ad...mID=1610612742

although that doesn't back up what exstatic posted...
At 444 minutes together (on the second of 8 pages)
K. Irving - L. Doncic Net Rtg +4.2

The DRtg for that pair was 115.0, a hair below league average (114.8).

That league average is the highest in league history by a pretty good margin (2020-2021, 112.3). The no-defense all-pace 1980s had league average ORtg around 108, but in the last few seasons it has gone over 110 and is trending higher.

I remember a lot of comments about the Spurs' DRtg last year (120.0) being the worst in league history. As an absolute number it's a true statement, but relative to league average it isn't.

For example, the 2014-2015 Wolves had the worst DRtg in the league at 112.2, while the league average was 105.6. That Wolves team had a worse defense relative to league average by both absolute difference (-6.6) and percentage difference (+6.25%) than the 2022-2023 Spurs (-5.2, +4.53%).

All defenses suck now when compared to the past. The best DRtg in the league in 2022-2023 was the Cavs at 110.6, but just 3 seasons ago that would have been league average and in 2017-2018 it would have ranked 21st in the league.

[Dejounte]

The DRtg for that pair was 115.0, a hair below league average (114.8).

That league average is the highest in league history by a pretty good margin (2020-2021, 112.3). The no-defense all-pace 1980s had league average ORtg around 108, but in the last few seasons it has gone over 110 and is trending higher.

I remember a lot of comments about the Spurs' DRtg last year (120.0) being the worst in league history. As an absolute number it's a true statement, but relative to league average it isn't.

For example, the 2014-2015 Wolves had the worst DRtg in the league at 112.2, while the league average was 105.6. That Wolves team had a worse defense relative to league average by both absolute difference (-6.6) and percentage difference (+6.25%) than the 2022-2023 Spurs (-5.2, +4.53%).

All defenses suck now when compared to the past. The best DRtg in the league in 2022-2023 was the Cavs at 110.6, but just 3 seasons ago that would have been league average and in 2017-2018 it would have ranked 21st in the league.

Great research and a lesson for everyone not to take stats at face value.

[MultiTroll]

Or trade for Luka within the next 2 years.

I have the feeling it's gonna be a mess with Flat Earther.

I like it.
We all want to see a Chip as soon as possible.
But if it takes 2-3 even 4 years to get another GNob and Parker to start racking and stacking Chips that will work!

If Spurs hit it earlier with some sick draft pic or trades, so much the better.

[JeffDuncan]

…
We all want to see a Chip as soon as possible.
But if it takes 2-3 even 4 years to get another GNob and Parker to start racking and stacking Chips that will work!
…

The problem is, if Wemby sees the Spurs still fuddling around with rebuilding four years from now, he’ll probably leave. And who could blame him.

Presuming that Wemby’s potential is developed and largely realized, every team in the NBA will want him. Why should he sign a second contract with the Spurs if they’re still dorking around looking for a stinking point guard? Heck, I’d say he shouldn’t, if that’s how things turn out.

In the 2013-14 season, Cory Joseph started 19 games for the Spurs. They were 14-5 in those games. Was that great record because Joseph was an all-star point guard? Nah. He was just a competent player on an outstanding team.

The Spurs don’t need an all-star point guard to team with Wemby. They just need a competent one, with an eye toward building a strong team overall.

[MultiTroll]

Presuming that Wemby’s potential is developed and largely realized, every team in the NBA will want him. Why should he sign a second contract with the Spurs if they’re still dorking around looking for a stinking point guard? Heck, I’d say he shouldn’t, if that’s how things turn out.

The Spurs don’t need an all-star point guard to team with Wemby. They just need a competent one, with an eye toward building a strong team overall.

Good points all.
Think we got to have an All Star or two somewhere in the lineup tho. Wemby is gonna get doubled and tripled and you know numerous cheap shots are coming his way from amoral dip s like Coward Kerrs teams.
Don't forsee us being the 2004 Pistons but if that kind of team ball works, bring it on!

[Knoxxx]

One problem we did face the last several years was every team we played seemed to have at least a couple (if not three) players better than our best player.

[Em-City]

Cam payne wishes he was still with the suns.

May as well cut him

[exstatic]

Cam payne wishes he was still with the suns.

May as well cut him

Is there a quote behind that statement?

[Em-City]

Is there a quote behind that statement?

Horses mouth:

https://twitter.com/ClutchPoints/sta...ub9MrCTsg&s=19

[HankChinaski]

He didn't request a trade so nothing wrong in feeling bad about being moved. He plays weak in SA then he doesn't make the cut and is released/traded end of story

[JPB]

This is a pretty good place to start,

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/ad...mID=1610612742

although that doesn't back up what exstatic posted...
At 444 minutes together (on the second of 8 pages)
K. Irving - L. Doncic Net Rtg +4.2

Luka and FE are 5-11 together. Net Rtg is an interesting stat but the sample size (16 games) is too short... A couple of blow out wins can biase it. Besides, isolating 2 players don't necessarily tells the whole story. They're kind of a 2 man show, not really involving everyone around, which is felt when one of two sits... The challenge for Dallas is for their supporting cast to find some room to exist and dont just feel they're just extras in the movie.

[JPB]

Luka and FE are 5-11 together. Net Rtg is an interesting stat but the sample size (16 games) is too short... A couple of blow out wins can biase it. Besides, isolating 2 players don't necessarily tells the whole story. They're kind of a 2 man show, not really involving everyone around, which is felt when one of two sits... The challenge for Dallas is for their supporting cast to find some room to exist and dont just feel they're just extras in the movie.

Quoting myself to add that there's also what you could call "Kyrie entropy" telling you that the more time passes, the more something wrong is prone to happen with him.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm not defending the Luka/Kyrie pairing, but to be fair the rest of that team is pretty bad.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We don't need a point guard...we need a point god.

[MultiTroll]

Cam payne wishes he was still with the suns.

May as well cut him

Horses mouth:

https://twitter.com/ClutchPoints/sta...ub9MrCTsg&s=19

Translation available for his mumbling?
Did he really say "I wish i be back in Phoenix now." ?

[MultiTroll]

Horses mouth:

https://twitter.com/ClutchPoints/sta...ub9MrCTsg&s=19

"I wish i was in Phoenix still."

Show this assclown the door ASAP.

[JPB]

"I wish i was in Phoenix still."

Show this assclown the door ASAP.

Is that when you say snowflake millenial needs his safe space?

[MultiTroll]

Is that when you say snowflake millenial needs his safe space?

I get it had Payne have said "I miss Phoenix __." since beyond basketball he may have had GF etc, peeps he misses in PHX.

By adding the word "now" he can go F himself if he does not see the potential of being with Wama.
Get back to snuggling with Durbetta and BookerDashian.