Woj: Vassell 5/$146M extension

[Russo21]

I keep thinking we should sell high...

He'd be deadly fo a contender with a limited role

He's not Wemby compatible imo, poor court vision and passing won't change like that and we can get A LOT for him + picks

+1 i think we should sell too. At this stage everybody should be in the mix for being moved who isn't Wemby compatible. He's the future and everybody needs to be able to play off him

[John B]

Working out with KD last summer helped gave him that scorer’s at ude, not shying away and ready to take over, which is great as Spurs needed to replace the Big 3. It’s just recognition of Wemby as the “head of snake,” but we are starting to see more conscious effort to find Wemby. Keldon embracing the Manu role is crucial, the team-first sacrifice which could be real hard for younger players trying to make their mark.

But I was hoping that Sochan can develop into that defensive catalyst that spurs always have in their championship runs, Sean Ninja Elliot, Bruce Bowen, Danny Green/Kawhi. Alas Pop was trying to make him more of a Boris Diaw connector which he is failing miserably. I rather Sochan getting faster laterally on his feet staying in front, and play a 3 and D. He is athletic enough and his catch-and-shoot 3’s are deadly. I know they need a starting PG (I prefer a vet from FA/trade and maybe a PG for the TOR pick). That leaves a PF/C for Spurs 1st pick Risacher or even Sarr. (I am starting to think Sochan is too small for that position and should play a 3-and-D SF).

CP3 / Topic / Tre
Vassell / Champagnie
Sochan / Keldon
Sarr or Risacher / Collins
Wemby / Bassey

I think Wemby would prefer the Spurs to be really compe ive next year, and that would require a veteran PG next year. I wouldn’t be opposed to CP3 next year throwing those lob passes to Wemby and Sarr , while having Topic as his PG-in-training.

[Pauleta14]

Even if I had doubts at some point, I don't think he consciously avoided passing to Wemby, just that he can't either for technical reasons (he sees the risk of TO more than the success of the pass) or just because he doesn't see it, the same way Wesley or Chanpagnie didn't see OBVIOUS passes that the whole arena saw last game.

He's a very good player, it's not a hit on him and again he'd be amazing for a contender, but his salary, his limitations and the timming aren't compatible with "project Wemby" and make him the most valuable asset The Spurs have to improve with ones more compatible.

[spurraider21]

lol at selling Vassell for picks

[CGD]

^ I think Dev is here to stay, at least through this contract. For now they see him as the perfect partner for VW’s first 3-4 year stretch in the NBA.

[Pauleta14]

I did't say just for picks, I said ADDED TO picks

[RC_Drunkford]

I keep thinking we should sell high...

He'd be deadly fo a contender with a limited role

He's not Wemby compatible imo, poor court vision and passing won't change like that and we can get A LOT for him + picks

he's totally compatible to Wemby cause he can play off ball. That would be the dumbest thing the FO can possibly do.

[cd021]

^ they sure as look hard. Hoping he learns how to draw contact and to the line as his next development goal.

Attacking the basket and drawing contact would be nice but I would like to see him become more of a passer. He tends to get tunnel vision when he has the ball and doesn't even look to pass to Wembanyama when they play together.

[Pauleta14]

he's totally compatible to Wemby cause he can play off ball. That would be the dumbest thing the FO can possibly do.

1- I’m not saying we HAVE TO trade him nor that he sucks. He has ONE huge skill but he’s below average in too many other areas that I can’t see him getting suddenly better at.

2- it’s a combinaison of multiple factors that leads me to this conclusion, not just one , his salary, his fragility and passing/court vison

3- if we want to really improve the roster we can’t just rely on draft picks, Keldon has a cheap contract, still young and improving and has a perfect profile to bring juice off the bench imo
so Vassel ends up being the most valuable asset we have by default.

4- Again I’m not hating, Vassel is a good kid with great shooting talent and I think that both parties can win out of a trade bc he’d be deadly in a limited shooting role for a contender.

[rascal]

Too inconsistent to be counted on as a reliable 2nd scoring or even 3rd scoring option.

Isn't quick enough/athletic enough to beat his man to get uncontested shots off. Doesn't seem interested in working on the defensive end.

[rascal]

Attacking the basket and drawing contact would be nice but I would like to see him become more of a passer. He tends to get tunnel vision when he has the ball and doesn't even look to pass to Wembanyama when they play together.

He isn't quick enough to beat his man and get to the basket.

[SouthernFryd]

1- I’m not saying we HAVE TO trade him nor that he sucks. He has ONE huge skill but he’s below average in too many other areas that I can’t see him getting suddenly better at.

2- it’s a combinaison of multiple factors that leads me to this conclusion, not just one , his salary, his fragility and passing/court vison

3- if we want to really improve the roster we can’t just rely on draft picks, Keldon has a cheap contract, still young and improving and has a perfect profile to bring juice off the bench imo
so Vassel ends up being the most valuable asset we have by default.

4- Again I’m not hating, Vassel is a good kid with great shooting talent and I think that both parties can win out of a trade bc he’d be deadly in a limited shooting role for a contender.

Nails it.

Great scorer, who doesn't make anyone else around him better. He doesn't see the court. For a premier scorer, his BBIQ is pretty low. With everyone in the NBA these days focused on one thing, scoring, he'd make great trade bait.

[spurraider21]

I did't say just for picks, I said ADDED TO picks

My bad. I still wouldn’t move an ascending player on a 5 year deal yet to kick in

[spurraider21]

He isn't quick enough to beat his man and get to the basket.

He’s strong and lengthy enough and a crafty finisher even if he hasn’t completely blown by

[RC_Drunkford]

1- I’m not saying we HAVE TO trade him nor that he sucks. He has ONE huge skill but he’s below average in too many other areas that I can’t see him getting suddenly better at.

2- it’s a combinaison of multiple factors that leads me to this conclusion, not just one , his salary, his fragility and passing/court vison

3- if we want to really improve the roster we can’t just rely on draft picks, Keldon has a cheap contract, still young and improving and has a perfect profile to bring juice off the bench imo
so Vassel ends up being the most valuable asset we have by default.

4- Again I’m not hating, Vassel is a good kid with great shooting talent and I think that both parties can win out of a trade bc he’d be deadly in a limited shooting role for a contender.

1- What areas is he below average in?

True shooting % 30th out of 102 SGs
PER 19th out of 102 SGs
Turnover Ratio 14th out of 102 SGs
Steals per Game 14th out of 92 SGs
FT attempts 22nd out of 96 SGs
Rebounds per game 36th out of 92 SGs
Assists per game 25th out of 92 SGs

so he's basically above average in every facet of the game, but you don't think so cause he's not averaging 8 assists to Wemby.

2- His passing/court vision is not an issue since he's an SG. The only reason you are bringing this up is because this team doesn't have a PG.

He's on a great long term contract, so I don't understand your point here.

3- that's exactly why we shouldn't trade our 2nd best player

4- Guess what, the Spurs are trying to become a contender in a couple of years

[rascal]

1- What areas is he below average in?

True shooting % 30th out of 102 SGs
PER 19th out of 102 SGs
Turnover Ratio 14th out of 102 SGs
Steals per Game 14th out of 92 SGs
FT attempts 22nd out of 96 SGs
Rebounds per game 36th out of 92 SGs
Assists per game 25th out of 92 SGs

so he's basically above average in every facet of the game, but you don't think so cause he's not averaging 8 assists to Wemby.

2- His passing/court vision is not an issue since he's an SG. The only reason you are bringing this up is because this team doesn't have a PG.

He's on a great long term contract, so I don't understand your point here.

3- that's exactly why we shouldn't trade our 2nd best player

4- Guess what, the Spurs are trying to become a contender in a couple of years

How does he compare with only starters? Any starter will come up with good numbers compared with bench players on limited minutes.

[scott]

There is definitely still some Devin Vassell still to be unlocked. Once we have a real PG who can set up the offense, and Sochan in a different role where he doesn’t aimlessly run around messing up spacing, he’s going to make a leap.

The other big thing, is for Devin himself to show a little more basketball smarts. He just takes so many bad shots. I’m not sure if it’s because of his BBIQ, or because of the PG issue. My guess is that it’s both.

[Pauleta14]

1- What areas is he below average in?

True shooting % 30th out of 102 SGs
PER 19th out of 102 SGs
Turnover Ratio 14th out of 102 SGs
Steals per Game 14th out of 92 SGs
FT attempts 22nd out of 96 SGs
Rebounds per game 36th out of 92 SGs
Assists per game 25th out of 92 SGs

so he's basically above average in every facet of the game, but you don't think so cause he's not averaging 8 assists to Wemby.

2- His passing/court vision is not an issue since he's an SG. The only reason you are bringing this up is because this team doesn't have a PG.

He's on a great long term contract, so I don't understand your point here.

3- that's exactly why we shouldn't trade our 2nd best player

4- Guess what, the Spurs are trying to become a contender in a couple of years

1- I told u what areas. Not those u talk about …
It’s not about statistics as much as eye test. It’s more about intent that success

2- it is an issue when the goal is for everybody to share the ball and when ur highest paid player has difficulties doing it.

3- unless his salary doesn’t match his production. CBA had more impact on the contract than his productions + we need more than draft picks to trade.

4- yes and I’m not sure Vassel should be part of the rebuilding process considering all the above points.

[SouthernFryd]

Spurs at the top of the list with "assists"

And at the bottom of the league in "Wins"

Think about it.

Vassells assists, like everyone elses assists on the Spurs, is because the Spurs don't move the ball much. You pass it once, and it's probably going up...good shot or not. That's the type of "assists" we get that don't translate into wins.

Vassell has quick hands and gets some steals, which is cool. But, his actual man on man defense and floor positioning on Defense sucks.

He doesn't break down the Defense on drives to get assists, like Manu did...he does it so he can score. Doesn't look to make anyone better. His offense positioning doesn't involve helping anyone else on the team.

You never see him setting picks for others. He's always running around trying to get open at the 3 point line...just like everyone else on the Spurs. Basically, the entire team camps out at the 3 point line. It's comical when you start paying attention to it. Everyone is trying to get open for a 3. It's f'ing ridiculous.

He's great scorer.

That's what everyone in the NBA is looking for right now. His trade value is high. So, if you're like every other dumbass in the NBA and you just want another 3 point shooter, which the Spurs seem to fall into that camp these days...they'll probably keep Vassell.

The SPURS are pretty much unwatchable because of that mentality. The ONLY reason to watch the SPURS, is to see WEMBY highlights. Which are off the charts. I feel for the guy tho. Pop is screwing with his entire career...and NOT for the better.

[Pauleta14]

^ Perfectly put

[Sugus]

1- What areas is he below average in?

True shooting % 30th out of 102 SGs
PER 19th out of 102 SGs
Turnover Ratio 14th out of 102 SGs
Steals per Game 14th out of 92 SGs
FT attempts 22nd out of 96 SGs
Rebounds per game 36th out of 92 SGs
Assists per game 25th out of 92 SGs

so he's basically above average in every facet of the game, but you don't think so cause he's not averaging 8 assists to Wemby.

2- His passing/court vision is not an issue since he's an SG. The only reason you are bringing this up is because this team doesn't have a PG.

He's on a great long term contract, so I don't understand your point here.

3- that's exactly why we shouldn't trade our 2nd best player

4- Guess what, the Spurs are trying to become a contender in a couple of years

Thank you, thank you for bringing some ing numbers into the discussion. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills whenever Vassell is discussed here. He'll look ing great with an actual PG and team structure, hopefully as soon as next year.

[KobesAchilles]

Thank you, thank you for bringing some ing numbers into the discussion. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills whenever Vassell is discussed here. He'll look ing great with an actual PG and team structure, hopefully as soon as next year.

Structure isn’t built by the point guard though. It’s built by the organization. Pop has zero structure to our players and it’s killing their development. Victor should be shooting above 44%. he should have 8 freebie points a game on lobs and dunks alone. But there’s zero structure to get those. It’s not even having a PG either, we aren’t focused on that with him. Vassell shouldn’t be leading the league in hardest attempts per game with his shots, but there’s zero structure to get him the ball in easy spots or wide open looks. For some reason, Pop hasn’t figured out that by playing through Wemby, the dude will give open shots to his teammates. Having a PG next year isn’t going to change that. Sochan wasted his entire second year bc of Pop not having structure.

It’s 100% on Pop. All of this is on Pop. He needs to go. Even if we draft Topic or Collier or Dilly. Pop needs to go.

[CGD]

Spurs at the top of the list with "assists"

And at the bottom of the league in "Wins"

Think about it.

Vassells assists, like everyone elses assists on the Spurs, is because the Spurs don't move the ball much. You pass it once, and it's probably going up...good shot or not. That's the type of "assists" we get that don't translate into wins.

Vassell has quick hands and gets some steals, which is cool. But, his actual man on man defense and floor positioning on Defense sucks.

He doesn't break down the Defense on drives to get assists, like Manu did...he does it so he can score. Doesn't look to make anyone better. His offense positioning doesn't involve helping anyone else on the team.

You never see him setting picks for others. He's always running around trying to get open at the 3 point line...just like everyone else on the Spurs. Basically, the entire team camps out at the 3 point line. It's comical when you start paying attention to it. Everyone is trying to get open for a 3. It's f'ing ridiculous.

He's great scorer.

That's what everyone in the NBA is looking for right now. His trade value is high. So, if you're like every other dumbass in the NBA and you just want another 3 point shooter, which the Spurs seem to fall into that camp these days...they'll probably keep Vassell.

The SPURS are pretty much unwatchable because of that mentality. The ONLY reason to watch the SPURS, is to see WEMBY highlights. Which are off the charts. I feel for the guy tho. Pop is screwing with his entire career...and NOT for the better.

I mean that’s expecting a lot of Vassell to begin with. The team needs both a scorer/play finisher (which Vassell is), and a play generator (which no one on the team is). That’s what the draft picks/trade chips are for. Just because he got a big payday doesn’t somehow mean he acquired the latter skills over night.

Also, some here act like Wemby is some finished product. Today the Cleveland center pretty much had his way with him, and he’s nowhere near a top flight center in this league. That, and Wemby for some unexplainable reason dumped off the go ahead game tying bunny to Sochan for some reason (which we all know how it was going to end). It’s not like he’s Gannis already, even though he had a great game against him the other day.

[SouthernFryd]

I mean that’s expecting a lot of Vassell to begin with. The team needs both a scorer/play finisher (which Vassell is), and a play generator (which no one on the team is). That’s what the draft picks/trade chips are for. Just because he got a big payday doesn’t somehow mean he acquired the latter skills over night.

Also, some here act like Wemby is some finished product. Today the Cleveland center pretty much had his way with him, and he’s nowhere near a top flight center in this league. That, and Wemby for some unexplainable reason dumped off the go ahead game tying bunny to Sochan for some reason (which we all know how it was going to end). It’s not like he’s Gannis already, even though he had a great game against him the other day.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I'm not saying I want to get rid of Vassell. I'm saying he's the best trade bait we have. We can get a LOT for him. He is a no-compromise, legit scorer. And we need one of those. Every team does. And we can probably work with him on the other things. Which are pretty easy to teach. Scoring like he does, is almost unteachable. lol. Passing, man on man D, the other things can be taught. Still, I don't think he's untouchable, given the right deal. Like I said, we can probably get a LOT for him. Manu was untouchable, Vassell, not so much.

But, if he's going to be our legit 2nd man scorer...I'm liking the getting a legit D guy to go next to Wemby before we try and get another Vassell. Yeah, we need better shooters and a floor general too, but this draft sucks...except for D guys. And there's a couple of top-tier D guys out there. I've mentioned DUNN a few hundred times. D guys don't just play D...they open up the game for legit scorers like Vassell by working to get him open, not themselves. AND they allow our guards to stay outside and guard the damn 3 point line instead of constantly collapsing and leaving the 3 point shooters open. So much upside here...

It's just the mentality around here is all about scoring and 3's. Like every single player on the team needs to shoot 3's at a good %. Wtf? That's not basketball. That's a Horse Game. If you've ever coached kids, you know that's all kids want to do. Shoot 3's. Don't give a about any other part of the game. It's kinda like that here too, lol.

It's been said ad nauseum, but I'll say it too. you Stephan

[ambchang]

Some people will not be happy until wembys usage rate is 100%