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well you wouldnt do this deal for 1.5 years of fox. the expectation is he is re-signed/extended
He already turned down an extension
Luckily because he wasn't traded from his drafted team in the first 4 seasons, he will not be eligible for a Supermax as I understand things.
well you wouldnt do this deal for 1.5 years of fox. the expectation is he is re-signed/extended
Kings have started winning under Doug Christie but have a tough schedule coming up. The next 10 games or so will play a pretty big role in what they decide to do. If you want Fox, hope for a complete meltdown and lots of losses.
I go back and forth in this tbh. While I like the idea of adding Fox because we desperately need another big time talent to help Wemby, it’s hard for me to include Castle into that package tbh. He just turned 20 years old and has a pretty high ceiling. Once that 3-point shot starts falling consistently, it’s going to open up the rest of his game and he’s going to be a damn good two-way player for years to come imo.
With that said, not sure the Kings do any deal with us that doesn’t include Castle at this point, especially with Vassell tanking his trade value this season.
I’m also interested in Devin Booker tbh. Suns are currently 15-17 and the 11th Seed in the West. They’re going to try and blow it up after this season imo. KD is getting old and injury prone, and the Bradley Beal trade has been a disaster for them. They have almost no draft capital in the near future due to all these horrendous trades they’ve made to try to pair these guys together. It’s clearly not working, and I think they’re going to hit the reset button before long to acquire as many young players and draft picks as possible tbh.
Spurs should be on the phone seeing what it would take to get Booker, who is 28 and in the prime of his career, and has 3 years left on his deal after this season. Would give Wemby the elite backcourt scorer/shooter that he desperately needs and they’d immediately be one of the best 1-2 tandems in the league. Might be a long shot, but it’s definitely worth a phone call with PHX brass.
These are the type of things I talk about with LeBowen when I say you never know who will be available 6 months from now, tbh.
Its not really rocket science. There may always be someone better available in x months and/or years. But at some point, you need to pull the trigger considering 1. Your own timeline, 2. Your compe ion in getting that player 3. The possibility of that player actually being available, etc etc.
It’s why some (not saying you), are corny to talk about this topic. Because they keep saying they dont want the X player available (Markannen, Fox) and yet they cant give any realistic answer as to who they are actually thinking of, even notwithstanding the possibility of that player being available realistically.
For the record, I am very high on Booker but I also dont think he’s a realistic target which is why Im on the get Fox boat.
But that's the thing, Wemby is ing 20 years old. I don't think folks asking to be patient should be seen as "corny", and I'm saying this as someone that was fully in the Markkanen train and has slowly gotten into the Fox one.
Yeah, I understand that Wemby is a top 10 player already, and the having multiple windows angle, and wanting to take advantage of Wemby's rookie contract. Those are all compelling arguments, but you know what's also a compelling argument? Not wanting to shoot your load too early and setting Wemby's window back years because you made a costly mistake.
Fox isn't one of those can't miss guys that you know for sure would make it work. Corny would be for folks to say no to a Luka Doncic trade if he were to ever be available. Corny were the motherfcukers that were against adding CP3 back in the days whenever someone brought him up in previous years. People saying "nope, I'm good. Not Spurs material" to all-time great players is what I consider corny, not having reservations about a one time all-star 6'3" skinny guard with below average shooting, tbh.
And as 100%duncan says, that's why I always mention all the other variables.
ability
availability (injury record)
positional and role fit
age (I've got nothing against going for older players, but I'm not giving up a lot for them)
contract length (got to be careful not to overlap too many max deals, that's why for example Markkanen would've been a perfect)
contract demands (can't overpay average players)
asking price (the most important thing, very few players are worth trading a farm for)
While I absolutely agree that Booker would be a perfect fity ability and role wise, he's not a realistic target.
Suns are in a horrible position and they'd (rightfully so) demand everything we got for Booker because they can't tank even if they trade him.
That's why I think he'll either end up on the Rockets or won't be traded at all. No other team makes sense.
Also, if Booker gets traded to the Rockets, that means Suns will hit a reset button and hopefully Pop/CP3 can work their magic and we get KD.
I'm sure he has at least two more legit years after this one and he'd be a perfect mentor for Wemby. I think he'll definitely play until he's 40.
Obviously only if the asking price is right, as I mentioned in age variable.
Last edited by LeBowen; 01-03-2025 at 07:18 AM.
I like the angle of looking at Wembys career as having multiple phases, like Duncan had with end of prime DRob from 97-2001, then solo Timmy 2001-2004, then the Big 3 2004-2011, then the beautiful game 2011-2016.
Maybe the best path for Wemby and the Spurs for the first winning phase will be to pair him with an end of prime all star like Durant.
Having said that if you can get a younger star like a Devin Booker you do that he’s unrealistic cause if the Suns blow it up they’ll trade him to Houston for all their picks back.
Guys like Fox and Markannen are more attainable but will still cost a load.
My dream scenario is pairing Curry, Lebron and KD in vet min deals, tbh.
I don't think Castle is untradable and I would be 100% OK including him in a deal for Fox depending on the deal. The kid has shown some signs, but he's FAR from a sure thing. The chances that he ever becomes more than an upper end role player are actually pretty low, IMO. This is not to say he can't get there, but I think a lot of you are really overhyping the kid who doesn't have a very good shot.
He's untradeable because Spurs won't trade a rookie a few months into the season. A rookie they probably followed for years and was their #1 target.
Kings won't blow it up, they'll want some immediate help.
My opening offer would either be:
salary dump Keldon+Collins+Hawks picks+Kings swap returned
or
Devin+Tre+1 Hawks pick+Kings swap returned
They can't ask for more because Fox won't sign an extension, very few teams have assets to offer and he'll be on an expiring deal this summer.
Agreed. I really like Castle, but this board has a habit of getting enamored with any young talent that shows signs of promise. It happened with Dejounte, and Lonnie, and Derrick, and Primo, and Vassell, and now Castle.
So far...only two of those have really panned out (for various reasons) in Murray and White. Obviously too early to tell with Castle and I would PREFER to have a chance to see what we got, but at a certain point you gotta make moves for known talent instead of hoping these guys don't turn into pumpkins.
And to bring in talent, you usually have to give up talent. I'm on the fence whether Fox is THAT guy...but you also aren't getting someone like him with a bunch of roster filler and 2RPs.
Exactly
Don’t forget Keldon his rookie season in the COVID bubble. , people were campaigning him to be an all star when he was averaging nearly 20 points a game at one point.
FWIW, Castle has already looked more impressive than any of those guys mentioned did in their rookie season as raw as he is. But I agree he’s not untouchable either.
Castle is off the table unless Fox extends as part of the trade. You don’t push all the chips for a 1.5 year rental.
Dude you're not doing any trade unless Fox extends.
I'm really not sold on a Fox and Castle backcourt mostly because of a lack of shooting.
Castle, because he isn't a good shooter, will be a poor off the ball player. If you put him alongside a player as ball dominant as Fox, he will be pigeonholed into a role where he won't shine. If Spurs truly believe in Castle, they shouldn't add a player like Fox to Spurs. Fox will hindered Castle development.
So, between a trade like Castle + 1 first round pick for Fox and a a trade like Vassell + 3 first round picks for Fox, the Castle package might be the best one for Spurs.
no back and forth for me on this one; no to including Castle! not only do we lose a rookie with great promise but also the flexibility for a bigger free agent name at more appropriate point in wemby's timeline.
Agreed.
The thing is that we can't look at Wemby as someone who's not yet on a winning timeline. He just hit #5 in MVP race and he'll surely be a legit MVP candidate next season.the flexibility for a bigger free agent name at more appropriate point in wemby's timeline.
It won't matter that he's only 21 when the goal is to win.
If we can get Fox for a fair deal and then have him under contract for his age 28-33 seasons, we do it. Wemby will be just 27 at the end of Fox's max extension.
well dejounte actually did end up becoming really freaking good, at least with the spurs. on the other hand, white did end up becoming really good, just didnt peak until after he left
lonnie was always seen as "potential" but i dont think anybody on ST deluded themselves into thinking he had proven himself as a viable starter. primo literally never showed anything, i will never understand this. as a rookie he was below average in just about everything. shooting, passing, handling, defense... the only thing he showed was decent touch near the rim. other htan that it was pure theorycrafting because he was somewhat tall for a point guard. then he was very disappointing in his second summer league/preseason and didnt look any better. maybe the guy had a legit NBA future ahead of him, but it wasnt based on anything we had seen thus far
i think right now castle is somewhere between lonnie and white in terms of my expectations. lonnie was clearly a good enough scorer to hang in the NBA, even until the very end. i like him and wouldnt trade him as part a deal for a Cam Johnson type or even Lauri. but if you are getting a bona-fide star, top 25 player type in Fox, then yeah i'd have him on the table even if he's not in my opening offer
Castle VS Dev is an interesting question from the Kings perspective too. They already have DMR Sabonis and Murray so they might prefer a win now player like Dev who fits much better next to DMR. Castle and DDR don’t fit either because of lack of shooting and on ball dominance. Castle’s two way promise is too much for me to pass on if I am the Kings.
Kings Get:
Castle
KJ
Tre
26 Hawks pick
Tear up the 31 swap.
yeah its an interesting quesiton for both clubs
offensively, the idea of adding Castle to a group that already includes DeRozan/Sabonis sounds bad, particularly when their other shooters, Huerter and Murray, have fallen off, and they recently traded away a solid shooter in Barnes. on the other hand, adding a defender as bad as Vassell to a group including Monk/DeRozan/Sabonis also seems bad. the DeRozan acquisition was predictably bad, much like Beal to Phoenix.
their best bet might be to just pull the plug on Monk as a starter and have him go back to his super 6th man role. Keon Ellis is their one solid defensive guard and he's been shooting straight this year as well. maybe you they can pair him with Castle and at least have a fiesty defensive backcourt to help cover those deficiencies.
They'd be morons to trade Booker anywhere but Houston given the Rockets control their 2027 and 2029 picks and that's going to be one dog team then.
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