It boils down to: PATFO whiffed on the 2020/2021/2022 drafts

[Mr. Body]

Primo over Sengun is inexcusable. But pretty much the entire NBA passed on Sengun. Even SpursTalk's dreamboat Presti passed on him -- nope, he drafted him to benefit the Houston Rockets. Oops.

Branham and Wesley were whiffs, but it is not hard to think they could make it somewhere else, just not on the Spurs.

You're entirely wrong about Sochan, who is one of the top five players in his draft. Vassell is good, even if he's not going to be the volume scorer we want.

And you fail to see a pick-up like Julian Champagnie.

Where these sorts of analyses go wrong:

1. No team gets them all right. Even dreamboat Sam Presti has ed up A TON. You just forget about them because you want to forget about them and are secretly Thunder fans.

2. Look at who was available at those picks. Really look. I mean, honestly, look. When Primo was picked, the obvious alternative was Sengun. The other was Trey Murphy, whose advanced metrics were pretty poor tbh and he didn't play a position of need. Otherwise there was no one consensus in that range who was left. It was a very weak draft at that point. For the Branham/Wesley draft, the draft was also pretty much over at that point, other than some stragglers.

3. You always mess up thinking things like Primo was never going to be good. We don't know. He had flashes (wrong way to put it). Players develop in different ways.

To me, the Spurs drafted and developed late picks like Kyle Anderson, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, drafted Tre Jones, got Sochan completely right, did well with Vassell, got Stephon Castle completely right, and picked up Julian Champagnie and to a lesser extent Charles Bassey. They screwed up with Primo and tried out guards in Branham and Wesley in a draft that was very thin at that point.

That's it. They still need a few pieces but they're still rebuilding and the draft history is nowhere near as bad as you think. I know you get your jollies off OKC, but again they're only where they are because Kawhi Leonard forced LAC to trade them Shai and a big wad of picks and they got lucky that they sucked bad enough to get Chet.

[spursistan]

This should be a total embarrassment for this franchise. And it is a reflection of how a culture of losing has set in over the past half decade. Wemby has played over 100 games for us living up and even surpassing his generational hype, and yet we are still stuck in the depths of mediocrity. Not sure when will PATFO re-evaluate their precious "young core".

[CorrectCrusader]

Fire Brian Wrong

[Ni-G]

When you drafting shooters that are even worse shooters then non shooters... https://x.com/AirAlamo/status/1877371891431694360

[TimDunkem]

This should be a total embarrassment for this franchise. And it is a reflection of how a culture of losing has set in over the past half decade. Wemby has played over 100 games for us living up and even surpassing his generational hype, and yet we are still stuck in the depths of mediocrity. Not sure when will PATFO re-evaluate their precious "young core".

I was going to post this too. lol Even the Wizards have done it, man...Embarrassing display by our FO for the last 4-5 years.

[Mr. Body]

When you drafting shooters that are even worse shooters then non shooters... https://x.com/AirAlamo/status/1877371891431694360

Exactly why we should have moved up to get Reed Sheppard.

[RC_Drunkford]

„It wouldn’t be fair to not let the other teams win some games. That‘s not who we are.“

[spursistan]

I was going to post this too. lol Even the Wizards have done it, man...Embarrassing display by our FO for the last 4-5 years.

I wish RC Buford or Brian Wright were on twitter; I would be spamming their mentions/inbox with that scandalous stat. This is what has become of the once proud Spurs franchise?

I am so ready to take a wrecking ball to this roster. We have seen enough, tbh..

[RC_Drunkford]

The „bigger than basketball“ mantra has turned this franchise into an organization that’s content with losing. Det culture

[vy65]

My guy Luka Samanic being criminally overlooked

[poopbox]

Primo over Sengun is inexcusable. But pretty much the entire NBA passed on Sengun. Even SpursTalk's dreamboat Presti passed on him -- nope, he drafted him to benefit the Houston Rockets. Oops.

Branham and Wesley were whiffs, but it is not hard to think they could make it somewhere else, just not on the Spurs.

You're entirely wrong about Sochan, who is one of the top five players in his draft. Vassell is good, even if he's not going to be the volume scorer we want.

And you fail to see a pick-up like Julian Champagnie.

Where these sorts of analyses go wrong:

1. No team gets them all right. Even dreamboat Sam Presti has ed up A TON. You just forget about them because you want to forget about them and are secretly Thunder fans.

2. Look at who was available at those picks. Really look. I mean, honestly, look. When Primo was picked, the obvious alternative was Sengun. The other was Trey Murphy, whose advanced metrics were pretty poor tbh and he didn't play a position of need. Otherwise there was no one consensus in that range who was left. It was a very weak draft at that point. For the Branham/Wesley draft, the draft was also pretty much over at that point, other than some stragglers.

3. You always mess up thinking things like Primo was never going to be good. We don't know. He had flashes (wrong way to put it). Players develop in different ways.

To me, the Spurs drafted and developed late picks like Kyle Anderson, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, drafted Tre Jones, got Sochan completely right, did well with Vassell, got Stephon Castle completely right, and picked up Julian Champagnie and to a lesser extent Charles Bassey. They screwed up with Primo and tried out guards in Branham and Wesley in a draft that was very thin at that point.

That's it. They still need a few pieces but they're still rebuilding and the draft history is nowhere near as bad as you think. I know you get your jollies off OKC, but again they're only where they are because Kawhi Leonard forced LAC to trade them Shai and a big wad of picks and they got lucky that they sucked bad enough to get Chet.

Sengun was picked 16th but "the entire nba passed on him"

[spurraider21]

Primo over Sengun is inexcusable. But pretty much the entire NBA passed on Sengun. Even SpursTalk's dreamboat Presti passed on him -- nope, he drafted him to benefit the Houston Rockets. Oops.

Branham and Wesley were whiffs, but it is not hard to think they could make it somewhere else, just not on the Spurs.

You're entirely wrong about Sochan, who is one of the top five players in his draft. Vassell is good, even if he's not going to be the volume scorer we want.

And you fail to see a pick-up like Julian Champagnie.

Where these sorts of analyses go wrong:

1. No team gets them all right. Even dreamboat Sam Presti has ed up A TON. You just forget about them because you want to forget about them and are secretly Thunder fans.

2. Look at who was available at those picks. Really look. I mean, honestly, look. When Primo was picked, the obvious alternative was Sengun. The other was Trey Murphy, whose advanced metrics were pretty poor tbh and he didn't play a position of need. Otherwise there was no one consensus in that range who was left. It was a very weak draft at that point. For the Branham/Wesley draft, the draft was also pretty much over at that point, other than some stragglers.

3. You always mess up thinking things like Primo was never going to be good. We don't know. He had flashes (wrong way to put it). Players develop in different ways.

To me, the Spurs drafted and developed late picks like Kyle Anderson, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, drafted Tre Jones, got Sochan completely right, did well with Vassell, got Stephon Castle completely right, and picked up Julian Champagnie and to a lesser extent Charles Bassey. They screwed up with Primo and tried out guards in Branham and Wesley in a draft that was very thin at that point.

That's it. They still need a few pieces but they're still rebuilding and the draft history is nowhere near as bad as you think. I know you get your jollies off OKC, but again they're only where they are because Kawhi Leonard forced LAC to trade them Shai and a big wad of picks and they got lucky that they sucked bad enough to get Chet.

champagnie is the one guy who they actually developed as a role player... and he is doing well in his role

[TheChillFactor]

this is why i am in favor of trading SOME draft capital for a proven guy like Fox.

Yeah we have a ton of future picks but what are we going to do with another 6 or 7 Branhams and Wesleys??

[Mal]

this is why i am in favor of trading SOME draft capital for a proven guy like Fox.

Yeah we have a ton of future picks but what are we going to do with another 6 or 7 Branhams and Wesleys??

Of Juan Nunezs

[scott]

this is why i am in favor of trading SOME draft capital for a proven guy like Fox.

Yeah we have a ton of future picks but what are we going to do with another 6 or 7 Branhams and Wesleys??

Yes, we could trade for Fox or we could draft like 3 Branhams... but one of them might turn out to be great! Maybe even as good as Fox!

[kxs783kms]

They knew about Wemby for years. They had to let go of our best draft picks(*White,DM*) to be in the position to be able to draft Wemby. We had to suck at drafting. Why is no one understanding that? Now and going forward is what matters now that we've achieved that goal and Castle was/is a good start.

[vy65]

Can we start a FireJimmy thread?

[kxs783kms]

Imagine if we still had White, DM and DeRozan on this roster. We definitely wouldn't have Wemby right now, that's for sure.

[vy65]

Also, not taking Furphy at 30-whatever is looking really smart right about now. While 34% isn’t great, it is above team average as well as Sochan, Keldon, Branham and Vasselline

[scott]

They knew about Wemby for years. They had to let go of our best draft picks(*White,DM*) to be in the position to be able to draft Wemby. We had to suck at drafting. Why is no one understanding that? Now and going forward is what matters now that we've achieved that goal and Castle was/is a good start.

Because it's not really true?

Before landing the #1 pick and Paolo, Orlando drafted useful players Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner. They didn't have to "suck" at those draft picks to still be in position to land Paolo. They just had to be bad enough on the court to put themselves in position for a little lottery luck. Similarly, the Spurs didn't need to "suck" at their 2023 draft pick in order to land #4 and take the right guy in the 2024 draft.

You are correct, however, that it was the right decision to move Derrick and DJM (our best draft picks, as you put it, who were developed by a different staff), and what matters now is what we do going forward.

I get the feeling that the Spurs FO feels like they're nailing it and everything is going to plan. From a 35,000 foot view, it's easy to understand why. We're a .500 team with our 2nd year Superstar 3rd in the NBA in actual EPM and 5th in Expected Wins (EW) added. There seems to be a lot of optimization that could take place, but maybe the FO doesn't see it that way. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[spurraider21]

Mugen between this and the raiders cleaning house again... which is worse

[Kevin]

I hope the FO has enough self awareness to know they owe almost all of their "success" to winning the Wemby lotto. Pure luck. Even they had even taken second in that lotto they would have probably ended up with Scoot who is looking like a mega bust.

[exstatic]

You're probably right in a vacuum, but if we make better moves in those drafts it's almost certain that we don't get Wemby, so it's a pretty big moot point. It's what we do from here with our draft capital. Clearly we havn't been shown to draft well lately, so unlike most, I'm down for moving the capital + players for some proven pieces this year/this offseason. I think outside of Wemby and CP3 (unless he wants to, gotta honor the gentleman agreement otherwise no vets will come to us in the future), everyone should be in play.

You’re really giving up on Castle halfway through his rookie year?

[exstatic]

Because it's not really true?

Before landing the #1 pick and Paolo, Orlando drafted useful players Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner. They didn't have to "suck" at those draft picks to still be in position to land Paolo. They just had to be bad enough on the court to put themselves in position for a little lottery luck. Similarly, the Spurs didn't need to "suck" at their 2023 draft pick in order to land #4 and take the right guy in the 2024 draft.

You are correct, however, that it was the right decision to move Derrick and DJM (our best draft picks, as you put it, who were developed by a different staff), and what matters now is what we do going forward.

I get the feeling that the Spurs FO feels like they're nailing it and everything is going to plan. From a 35,000 foot view, it's easy to understand why. We're a .500 team with our 2nd year Superstar 3rd in the NBA in actual EPM and 5th in Expected Wins (EW) added. There seems to be a lot of optimization that could take place, but maybe the FO doesn't see it that way. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

DJ and DM were already into their extensions, fifth year players that would have had a larger effect on winning than Orlando’s previous two picks. DJ, by himself after DeRozan was jettisoned the previous summer, led us to a play in game.

[scott]

DJ and DM were already into their extensions, fifth year players that would have had a larger effect on winning than Orlando’s previous two picks. DJ, by himself after DeRozan was jettisoned the previous summer, led us to a play in game.

Agreed (and that's why I said as much in the following paragraph). However, the OP's premise that I was responding to stated that the Spurs needed to "suck" at drafting (presumably in 2020/2021/2022 since that is what this thread is about) in order to land Wemby, which is why I gave the example of Suggs and Franz. The Spurs didn't need to "suck" at drafting in order to land Wemby (and sure enough, some people have made a fair case in this thread that they didn't suck at drafting in that time frame).