The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[Raven]

Raven has repeatedly shown themselves to be one of the most clueless posters around with zero understanding of statistics. "Devin Vassell is very good, consistently" is my second favorite take of the season after "Zach Collins is having an objectively good season".

There is literally zero reason to engage in good faith with this clown.

yeah, I don't think devin is the problem on this team, he does what he does, i'm not sure what expectations you guys have for him, but he's pretty much the only one still playing.

[Sugus]

yeah, I don't think devin is the problem on this team, he does what he does, i'm not sure what expectations you guys have for him, but he's pretty much the only one still playing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I mean, are you serious here?

He was handsomely paid not only based on production but future projection and development, which is exactly the expectation, and I'd love to hear how you think he measured up to that this season. He has flat-out disappeared numerous games, his shooting stroke is terrible most nights, his defense has regressed as backed up by stats like DARKO DPM, and he's all-around failed to take a step forward in a season where the Spurs absolutely needed him to.

He's arguably playing himself off the team right now, tbh. How can you say he "does what he does" as if it's some kind of positive? Some stats now - He's shooting 35% on 3s for the season, second-lowest of his career except for his rookie season, on less attempts than his past two seasons and a worse FG% than his last two seasons also. He's shooting sub-80% on free throws, his assists are down as well.....

Sure, you'll always be able to say he's not the problem on a team whose star has been diagnosed with a season-ending condition and second star has had season-ending surgery as well -- but it's hardly the high bar you're making it out to be.

It's currently sink-or-swim time for most Spurs player, and he seems to be drowning by all accounts right now.

E: one more, all-around stat here - he's currently at a -7.4 NetRtg for the season, second-lowest for his career. Sure, season and team etc, but c'mon.....

[LeBowen]

it's not an opinion, reading comprehension was legitimately garbage, I said he doesn't pass the eye test and you post statistics in response (technically, they are actually NOT statistics but functions), how else would you describe the response otherwise? I don't know what you're talking about with the fox takes, but on the belinelli takes, well I think most people know how much i have always disliked him, but castle with all the justifications that he can have (rookie, atrocious coaching, godawful lineups, no center) has just as many bad defensive possessions.

You can't ing keep repeating eye test gimmick all year long and act as if your ing opinion is something that can't be disputed.
Thar's your entire gimmick, anecdotal evidence that can't be disputed and lets you rids your high horse even though you're acting like an absolute re .

It's also great that you avoided the question about you being right and everyone else being wrong, the usual m.o. of ragebait trolls.

[tonight...you]

Why you guys get all riled up over a dipstick is beyond me.

[Raven]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I mean, are you serious here?

He was handsomely paid not only based on production but future projection and development, which is exactly the expectation, and I'd love to hear how you think he measured up to that this season. He has flat-out disappeared numerous games, his shooting stroke is terrible most nights, his defense has regressed as backed up by stats like DARKO DPM, and he's all-around failed to take a step forward in a season where the Spurs absolutely needed him to.

He's arguably playing himself off the team right now, tbh. How can you say he "does what he does" as if it's some kind of positive? Some stats now - He's shooting 35% on 3s for the season, second-lowest of his career except for his rookie season, on less attempts than his past two seasons and a worse FG% than his last two seasons also. He's shooting sub-80% on free throws, his assists are down as well.....

Sure, you'll always be able to say he's not the problem on a team whose star has been diagnosed with a season-ending condition and second star has had season-ending surgery as well -- but it's hardly the high bar you're making it out to be.

It's currently sink-or-swim time for most Spurs player, and he seems to be drowning by all accounts right now.

E: one more, all-around stat here - he's currently at a -7.4 NetRtg for the season, second-lowest for his career. Sure, season and team etc, but c'mon.....

well i wasn't making any point about devin, he just mentioned it because he thinks most of us did not graduate and cannot recognise when someone attempts the logical fallacy of "i disagree with point x so i am en led to disagree with point y without any argument", but to answer to your question, i disagree that when you're tanking for years, that contracts should be related to performance. KJ and devin both had richer contracts than they deserved at the time, because the team was going to suck, so you can't complain that they are paid too much now that the team doesn't suck anymore.. maybe a little you can, but third bananas get paid more than devin, so i'm not worried. He is exactly what we expect, can create his own shot, stroke is perfect, has length and athleticism and is not an ass. is below average finishing at the rim, terrible at using his body and the decrease at free throws is bad. As far as his percentages go, i'm making the same argument that i make for champ, which is that castle is to blame. When a player has a perfect stroke and doesn't get blocked, it is the team's fault if they don't perform.

[Raven]

You can't ing keep repeating eye test gimmick all year long and act as if your ing opinion is something that can't be disputed.
Thar's your entire gimmick, anecdotal evidence that can't be disputed and lets you rids your high horse even though you're acting like an absolute re .

It's also great that you avoided the question about you being right and everyone else being wrong, the usual m.o. of ragebait trolls.

i literally can, now why are you trying to dispute anecdotal evidence with unrelated numbers, that is something you need to answer to yourself. What question are you talking about, I don't know.

[scott]

It's Castle's fault that the team is worse when Devin is on the court without him

[scott]

It's Castle's fault that Devin only shoots 35% on wide open 3's.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630170/shots-dash

His stroke is perfect, you see... that means it's someone else's fault when it doesn't go in.

[LeBowen]

i literally can, now why are you trying to dispute anecdotal evidence with unrelated numbers, that is something you need to answer to yourself. What question are you talking about, I don't know.

You can because you're a degenerate.
The question was simple. Are you that arrogant to think your take on the matter is right and literally everyone else is wrong? Because literally noone agrees with you. Are we all clueless idiots?

This was my last reply to you, no point in engaging any further since you're just changing subjects and have provided zero actual arguments.

[Raven]

It's Castle's fault that the team is worse when Devin is on the court without him

i'm sure you normalised those stats for the compe ion faced

[Raven]

You can because you're a degenerate.
The question was simple. Are you that arrogant to think your take on the matter is right and literally everyone else is wrong? Because literally noone agrees with you. Are we all clueless idiots?

This was my last reply to you, no point in engaging any further since you're just changing subjects and have provided zero actual arguments.

I absolutely am, for a couple of reasons: spurstalk is small enough and with enough duplicate accounts that you can never make the argument in the first place and i have a long enough track record to make such a case. Just the belinelli example is more than enough.. they used to call him ferrari for a year, remember? Remember the time when pop was asked about the improvements of belinelli's D and he was like are you kidding me with beli's D? only then spurstalk stopped claiming he was a decent defender instead of the world class bad piece of crap that he was.

[scott]

i'm sure you normalised those stats for the compe ion faced

Don't need to, I just use the eye test.

[Raven]

Don't need to, I just use the eye test.

as you should

[LeBowen]

I tell him he's constantly changing the subject and he continues spewing nonsense about Belinelli and alt account conspiracy theories in the very next post.

[ambchang]

To think that AI trawls the webs for takes and this “opinion” would somehow feed into AI knowledge database just gives me shivers thinking about the future of my children.

[cutewizard]

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGF9NGw76w0

[BatManu20]

Great game tonight from Steph. Showed his playmaking ability and then some. Good stuff tbh.

[exstatic]

fify

[John B]

fify

He credited CP3 for opening up his vision more on finding people, which that alone makes the CP3 acquisition such critical to the development of this young team, plus hopefully the dawg at ude. And with Castle, he’s already soaked so much game knowledge and already using it in reading plays, composure, etc. I hope Blakely gets the same reads and composure as I like his defense a lot. If he could develop into a solid backup PG would be great

[Dejounte]

Y’all need to put some respect on Chris Paul’s name, especially mother ers like LeBowen who’s been talking all season. Castle doesn’t care that he didn’t start over Paul. If Paul is the main reason for Castle’s development and is set up for the future, let him get all the ing minutes he wants. Castle is going to be a star because of the simple fact that Paul is unloading all his knowledge unto him, period.

Come at me because this is a hill I’m going to die on.

[Mr. Body]

Doesn't pass the eye test.

[spursparker9]

I don't mind if they let CP3 be Pop's successor

[LeBowen]

Y’all need to put some respect on Chris Paul’s name, especially mother ers like LeBowen who’s been talking all season.

I haven't been talking all season, just since Fox trade because having Fox and CP3 play together, especially in late game situations was detrimental to winning.

CP3 before Fox trade, 46 games: 9.4/4.1/8.2
CP3 together with Fox, 17 games: 7.5/2.2/7.2
CP3 after Fox shutdown, 5 games: 9.2/4.0/5.8

He's letting Castle handle the ball now, but it was obvious the entire team was hurting because we lost so much size with Fox/CP3 guard duo and either one of them standing in the corner did nothing good for the team.

If Paul is the main reason for Castle’s development and is set up for the future, let him get all the ing minutes he wants.

I don't have an issue with it now that the season is over as far as competing goes.
But if everyone was healthy, we would've lost quite a few wins over CP3's guaranteed starting spot and minutes.
I said it many times during the season, I don't have anything against CP3 staying for one more year as a backup, I started hating on him when we started losing games because of his guaranteed minutes.
He can pass his knowledge onto Castle even if he's not starting.
I even mentioned that him staying for one more year and then becoming the head coach in 26-27 season isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Castle is going to be a star because of the simple fact that Paul is unloading all his knowledge unto him, period.

That's just disrespectful to Castle.
He's going to be a star because he's got talent, physical tools and work ethic. CP3 will speed up that process and give him an extra edge, but he would've been great either way.

Come at me because this is a hill I’m going to die on.

Some of you people in here are so strange, tbh.

[tonight...you]

I haven't been talking all season, just since Fox trade because having Fox and CP3 play together, especially in late game situations was detrimental to winning.

CP3 before Fox trade, 46 games: 9.4/4.1/8.2
CP3 together with Fox, 17 games: 7.5/2.2/7.2
CP3 after Fox shutdown, 5 games: 9.2/4.0/5.8

He's letting Castle handle the ball now, but it was obvious the entire team was hurting because we lost so much size with Fox/CP3 guard duo and either one of them standing in the corner did nothing good for the team.



I don't have an issue with it now that the season is over as far as competing goes.
But if everyone was healthy, we would've lost quite a few wins over CP3's guaranteed starting spot and minutes.
I said it many times during the season, I don't have anything against CP3 staying for one more year as a backup, I started hating on him when we started losing games because of his guaranteed minutes.
He can pass his knowledge onto Castle even if he's not starting.
I even mentioned that him staying for one more year and then becoming the head coach in 26-27 season isn't out of the realm of possibility.



That's just disrespectful to Castle.
He's going to be a star because he's got talent, physical tools and work ethic. CP3 will speed up that process and give him an extra edge, but he would've been great either way.



Some of you people in here are so strange, tbh.

Agreed. Weird.

[spurraider21]

just some numbers about castle's interior scoring (within 3 feet). these are rough numbers that i can pull from bballref

he had 307 FGA, and converted 65.5% of those looks (201 FGM)

they also credit him with having 69 dunks on the year. if you exclude made dunks, he made 55.5% of the rest of his looks at the rim. im not sure how useful this analysis is, as i dont see why you would exclude dunks. for a non-dunking, below the rim point guard, these dunks would typically be replaced with very high% layups, for the most part. but for people who do that analysis, those are the numbers.

this also doesnt include fouls drawn, which was a big part of his game. he drew 176 shooting fouls on the year, and most of those would have been on drives.


if you compare to some other guards known for their interior finishing...

Ant Edwards converted 67.8% of his looks within 3 feet (and only had 54 dunks on the year). he also generally got to the rim less this year... only about 18% of his FGA came within 3 feet, compared to 31% for Castle. a lot of this is probably due to Wolves loss of spacing this year forcing Edwards to be much more of a perimeter scorer (which he has excelled at). he drew 233 shooting fouls despite not getting to the rim as often as the other guys here.

SGA converted 74.2% of his looks within 3 feet (20% of his FGA came within that distance). he only had 46 dunks on the year. and of course, he drew 280 fouls this year, though his playstyle has him drawing those from further out than 3 feet quite a bit. still, remarkable efficiency

Ja made 69% of his shots from within 3 feet (nice), and 23.3% of his FGA came within that distance. he threw down only 17 dunks, and drew 154 shooting fouls on the year.

as far as another rookie... Collier was another phyiscal point guard who had efficiecny questions. he also got over 20% of his FGA within 3 feet. he scored on 70% of those looks while only having 15 dunks.



in sum, castle did great at getting to the rim. im sure i could dig around more, but 31% of his FGA coming from within 3 feet is either at or near the tops in the league among guards. but his finishing there, including dunks, still leaves room for growth if you look at other rim-oriented players. not to mention, while he was pretty damn good at drawing fouls for a rookie, he only made 72% of his FTs which hurts.

he needs to improve his efficiency and its not as simple as his 3pt shooting. his rim efficiency (which for all intents in purposes should include FTs) is lacking. he also only made 37% of his shots between 3 and 10 feet, 37% between 10 and 16 feet, and 33% between 16ft and the 3pt line. the shooting between 10ft and 3pt line is less relevant for him, as those ranges combined accounted for 14% of his FGA.