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Wemby the old man out of Castle, Harper, and himself at age 21
Funny that Fox at 27 is middle aged relatively
Keep the youth movement going
Yeah, of course Harper couldn't work out, but you're talking about trading a hundred dollar bill for three twenties. Not a perfect analogy, but essentially the same. Don't throw away a tremendous swing at an All-Star potential player, if not more.
Wemby the old man out of Castle, Harper, and himself at age 21
Funny that Fox at 27 is middle aged relatively
Keep the youth movement going
A better analogy would be trading a one hundred dollar LOTTERY bill for three twenty bills (and a 50 dollar lottery bill), with the chance of one of those twenties actually being a 50 too.
And it’s not just youth but elite young players
Build the core now let them grow together
Still have other 1st round picks and swaps to keep adding
May be other future opportunities like the Fox trade
Otherwise be patient, this can be something special
Castle, Fox, Harper, what a difference 12 months makes
Harper is awesome, but there are legitimate concerns with drafting him that go beyond fit for the spurs.
He can get to the rim at will against college athletes, but he has a long history of questionable shooting dating back to his high school sample. Maybe he gets to the rim at will in the NBA too, but can he develop midrange counters for when opponents keep him from getting to the rim? You can see his shooting percentages fall off a cliff with better compe ion - 57% on 2s for the entire season, 54% against top 100 comp, 49.5% against top 50 comp. Same concerns that Castle has this year where he puts up nice numbers but his inefficiency really hurts him. Castle can always fall back on his defense and is a smart cutter to give him value, if Harper can't score efficiently does he just become a flawed initiator bet who puts up empty stats?
He played on a ty Rutgers team and couldn't get them to the tourney. Can't blame him for that, but that same ty Rutgers team was 5 points/100 better on defense with him on the bench vs 5.8 points worse on offense. So basically he was a net neutral for a terrible team. For comparison, Rutgers with "dumbest player ever" Ace Bailey was 10 points/100 better on offense and 4 points/100 better on defense vs when he was on the bench.
None of this is to say that I dislike him or think the Spurs shouldn't draft him. I think he's a clear #2 in his own tier. But the dude isn't a flawless prospect, and for a guy who complains a lot about the overall discourse of this board, maybe you just make DAF defend his position instead of just dismissing him outright, since it makes you sound like a real ing asshole and a hypocrite to boot.
Also, what kind of "franchise player" would Harper need to become for that Pelicans trade to be considered a failure from the Spurs perspective? I would argue if Harper ends up being a Trae Young type player, it is better to have the high end role players.
Russel Westbrook, James Harden, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving? I might prefer the core of elite role players, tbh.
I used to post a lot back then urging folks to not get attached to the young guys on the team. Folks were still in the old mindset where any young guy was the future of the club. , back in the day, we used to look at Malik Hairston like he was going to be part of the post-Big Three future. The team now has two ROYs and the best PG prospect in the last few years to look forward to.
There's Flagg news today....I thought there are discussions on it
I wonder if the source is legit
I guess I'd counter by asking what if Trey Murphy isn't Danny Green? What if he's Antoine Carr putting up empty numbers on a bad team? I remember how thrilled I was when the Spurs got him only for him to put up 11ppg and 13ppg and not move the needle an inch. There is downside here too.
I agree, it isn’t simple. But you’re not considering the opposite end of the possibility spectrum: Dylan turning into a franchise cornerstone Harden/Cade type PG and pairing that with Wemby. By no means am I saying this will happen, but you could be trading 1/2 of a modern day Shaq-Kobe combination away for Hedo, Ron Mercer, and Sasha Vucevic. I’m not saying that’s the case, but that you need to consider the fact that this will be the highest pick we have for quite a while - and - that it might make sense to swing for the fences considering the upside. Of course, we’re all operating under a severe information deficit, so who knows how things will pan out. But I think there’s a lot of logic with betting on adding a potential franchise player with Wemby and Castle.
That is what I'd be looking for as well (at a minimum), and even then I'm not sure I'd do it from the Spurs POV.
No. Like obviously no. Westbrook, Harden and Lillard in their primes could have been traded for a suite of role-players plus a pile of firsts. You're talking about two MVP winners and perennial All-Stars. Role-players aren't an afterthought, but the Spurs don't have a chance of winning a le if they have to use the second-most valuable asset they've had in many years to get them. They have too many picks and too much salary flexibility for that. If you don't think Harper will be a star, or if you think Tre Johnson or whomever you get a seven will be a star, that's one thing. There are trade-down ideas that might work. But the Spurs don't have a single proven franchise player right now, let alone so many that they can turn up their nose at the prospect of getting the next Kyrie Irving.
The Spurs' biggest problem when it comes to their lack of role-players is their poor developmental philosophy. There's zero reason why Vassell should be a streaky shooter and inattentive defender when he had all the right tools coming out of school. They keep drafting guys who can't shoot despite having no recent track record of developing shots, and their defensive philosophy has been abysmal for years now. If that changes, they'll be able to field a set of competent defenders. If it doesn't, trading for guys with good defensively histories will only lead to us seeing them player all of the sudden fall off as soon as they don Silver & Black.
Last edited by Chinook; 05-13-2025 at 10:29 PM.
Well, Murphy isn't Danny Green at all, tbh. Herb Jones is more Danny. Murphy's defense is average, what he gives you is great shooting at an ideal size with borderline all-star ceiling.
The only concerns I have, with both actually (Herb and Trey), is their injuries.
And, is Fox/Harper/Castle/PF/Wemby all that different than SGA/Dort/JW/Chet/Hart?
Well, actually...
No. They ed us over once on a pick. Lesson learned. If the pick were unprotected, they would probably actually start trying, fight out of the weak ass EC lottery pack, and convey like pick 16 or 17. Not worth swapping 2 and 4.
We need to really not overthink this or get too cute.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd do it either. I'm just sharing thoughts out loud so that we might all come to a conclusion together.
Where I definitely don't agree with Mr. Body is that it is a crazy idea that doesn't even need to be contemplated.
Not sure at all how you’re seeing a Trae Young path. Maybe get your prescription checked?
The mavs aren't going to be rude and hang up the phone. But there is no realistic package I can think of that would make me part with Flagg.
I'm not talking playing style, just tier of player. I also named Harden, Lillard, Irving and Westbrook. Did you really think I consider all those players to have similar games?
If (huge if) Harper becomes a Trae Young tier player, e.i: an extremely flawed, empty calories, "franchise player", I'd much rather have 2 or 3 elite role players.
Remember when that mofo gave all the bench players some kind of Dog nickname?
The Spurs will have their board, and perhaps on that board, Harper isn't that far about a guy like Tre Johnson. Maybe he's not higher at all. The goal of the draft is to be right, not to align with consensus. It's hard to see another guy being a better prospect than Harper from what I've read, and we know that when this front office zags, they don't always find the better option. But they still have to go with what they think is best, and that means they should be willing to make a trade if necessary. But to be honest, I have this pick as the clear second spot on the "untouchable" rankings behind Wemby. The Spurs need to ace this draft given how unlikely it was for them to be in this position. I don't think they should consider trading the pick for a vet, and if they move down, it should only be because they think the guy they're drafted at the lower pick is going to be a top-three player from this class.
I don't think the Spurs need to make a trade at this time. But if they did want to go star hunting, my max offer would be Castle, Sochan, Vassell, 2026, 2028 and 2030. That's enough salary to match up to $54.8 Million in salary, or pretty much any contract in the league. Give the swap options on those picks, I don't think there's a package out there that is more valuable outside of Houston or OKC cutting deep into their quick. I don't even think there's a good target for that full package. If you swap out Vassell for Branham, you might have a Jaren Jackson Jr. package. The issue is his makes so little that it'd be hard to imagine he'd sign an extension. The defense would be so ridiculous that it would make a Jackson/Wembanyama front court worth a lot. But the risk of Jackson walking for nothing would be too great to wager that much flexibility and draft capital on. Any other feasible trade that isn't Giannis shouldn't require the Spurs to move Castle or 2.
I can't believe some in here are entertaining the thought of trading away getting the incredible luck of getting a future superstar player for some role players.
You can trade Vassell, Keldon and Sochan for role players to fill out roster needs.
You're kinda tiptoeing around it, but you do seem to be low on Harper's potential that you are entertaining the idea of trading him for a bunch of unproven role players who have done jack in their career as far contributing to winning basketball..
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