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If Oberto is on the team starting the season (probably), then he has to play. They have to see what he can offer, to see if he's a rotation guy or has any trade value. They can't eat his salary without giving him another shot.
It's no longer "Injured Reserve", but simply reserves. The Spurs can switch players on and off their reserves each game, so I think we'll see Pop try all sorts of things.
If Oberto is on the team starting the season (probably), then he has to play. They have to see what he can offer, to see if he's a rotation guy or has any trade value. They can't eat his salary without giving him another shot.
Even the Spurs front office isn't claiming this.
Which three will be on the IR.?
Yeah, I hear what Dalhoop is saying. I think a lot of Spurs fans are just so happy right now to actually have any centers on their roster after having to sweat out the last few weeks with none. Based on what we know so far, Butler + Elson <<< Rasho + Nazr.Butler+Elson=Rasho+Nazr
Even the Spurs front office isn't claiming this.
But, FWD brings up the good points that Butler and Elson have bigger upsides, especially long term in Butler's case, than Nazr and Rasho. Furthermore, having these two guys split the MLE and getting Rasho's bloated contract off the books is going to help the Spurs' prospects of signing other FAs at some point in time.
I like what we've done with the center position: Rasho and Nazr, while they may be overall better than their replacements, were done in San Antonio. Pop didn't want to play them, and they didn't want to play for Pop. New blood is exactly what we needed, and considering the dearth of available centers, we did a good job.
We also did a good job of managing salaries this summer, although packaging Barry's contract off somewhere is the FOs current wet dream. Fiscally, Spurs are in good shape.
We did not address the need for a long 3, and I agree with Dalhoop; after the center position, that is the number 1 priority. We have nothing so far in that category, but still have time before Bruce breaks downs...but not too much time.
The backup PG got better by subtraction. My blind, three-legged, incontinent dog would be a better backup PG than NVE. that . The very fact that Pop cannot possibly give him any minutes (unless he comes out of retirement...perish the thought) is a big improvement. Spurs could definitely benefit from a stud at backup PG...but it's by no means a necessity.
Overal, Spurs get a "B" in my book for the offseason so far. Maybe I'm rose-tinted on Butler and Elson, but at least I'm excited.
yeah, here's what I disagreed about in dalhoops post:
They did need two centers, at least two centers who Pop had any confidence in playing at all in the playoffs. The Spurs didn't "create" the need for an athletic center who can run and catch entry passes; Rasho and Nazr's inep ude created it.
Man, you're smart...
Butler- yes. Elson- no way. He's older than both Rasho and Nazr.
My point about upside has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with the ability to provide this team with flexibility that it lacked during the 2005-06 playoffs. The Spurs have a younger big body and a far more athletic long center than they had at this point last year.
Butler is clearly a project who the Spurs are taking a bargain-priced flier on in the hope that he might morph into a long-term solution in the middle. Elson, however, is clearly not intended to be a long-term solution at the center spot; he is intended to provide the athleticism that the Spurs sorely lacked there. Elson only needs to be marginally productive in a numbers sense to be useful. From the sound of things, he might actually bring some tenacity as much as anything else. At that, he brings all of that on the cheap.
Like I say, the upside at the center spot is mostly in terms of cost effectiveness. If Elson and Butler provide the Spurs with 8 and 8 most nights (Rasho and Nazr averaged 10.7 and 9.1 last season) and can add at least 20-25 minutes between them in playoff games, they will be more than adequate replacements for Rasho and Nazr.
In that sense, Elson and Butler would seem to have more upside as a tandem than Rasho and Nazr did.
I think that Vaughn will be on the active list.
IL : Williams + Oberto/Butler.
I'd see Bonner on the list before Oberto and definitely before Butler. Bonner doesn't fill a role on this team, so long as Horry is there.
Horry looked really old last year, especially in the playoffs. I think he'll be an 11th or 12th man next year. I think Bonner will be the one who gets the backup PF minutes game in and game out.
Having said that, having a playoff-tested sharpshooter like Horry as your 12th man is a luxury beyond imagining (see also: Kerr, Steve).
I agree. Horry will spend time on the IR. Bonner will play early to get acclimated, test him out, see if he has trade value, etc.
First of let me say that was a fine post FromWayDowntown, you made good points on the PG and SF issues but I think that comparing Diop's situation last year with Mavs is a little different then the two centers for the Spurs.
At the time the Mavs had a starting center in Dampier and were looking for a young "project" to develop behind him, the Spurs had NOBODY .... And for those of you that would bring up that Diop quickly beat out Dampier .... Its not exactly like that .... The Mavs found that Dampier more times then not picks up two quick fouls early in games when he should save them till late in the game (They think he is just "over excited" and gets fouls called), the answer to this is to have Diop start the game and then come back a few minutes into the game with Dampier (normally at the 8 minute time-out).... Dampier is our center and gets more minutes.
I think having Bonner on the floor with Duncan will be more effective in a smaller line-up situation then having either a Nazr or Rasho, but ... at least with the Mavs ... "Going small" does not mean pulling out center out of the game, it means going with a Terry - Harris backcourt, during the series with the Mavs we always had either Diop or Dampier on Duncan ... we never went "small"
Other team will try the small thing with the Spurs this year though and Bonner will help with that.
Last edited by Dalhoop; 07-24-2006 at 06:39 AM. Reason: I can't spell for CRAP
I think that Horry will be on IR for 3/4 of the regular season and Oberto will be active to show if he deserves a place on our roster...
I didn't try to compare the Spurs' situation to the Diop signing directly. I was simply pointing out that a team can sign a relatively-inexperienced center and still play at a high level. That's particularly true where the team signing the center doesn't rely in any significant fashion on the statistical contributions of that player. Here, my point is that the Butler/Elson signings won't make many waves and likely don't instill fear into any of the Spurs' chief rivals -- yet as Diop did for Dallas, we may find that one or both of those guys is useful enough to keep the Spurs atop the division and conference for another year.
Sure. The point is, however, that the Spurs did -- other than Duncan, they didn't have a guy taller than 6'6" on the floor for most of the minutes they played against the Mavericks. I'm not trying to say that Bonner is the solution to all of the Spurs ills, but now the Spurs' roster has a number of guys who are taller than 6'6" who are athletic enough to give a few minutes here and there in a playoff series against great athletic lineups. Enough to give Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili a few minutes of rest at various stages in the game without the Spurs suffering a huge backslide. If any of those guys can play alongside the usual front four for stretches, the Spurs will again have good length on the floor and should be able to mitigate the rebounding disparities that killed them in the 2006 playoffs. And if a guy like Bonner can hit some 3's in playoff games -- or if he plays enough during the regular season to spell Horry and keep him fresher for a playoff run so that Horry can be the Robert Horry who played in the 2005 playoffs -- the Spurs are better.
Versatility.
That was the key word going into the offseason, and the SPurs got that, with Bonner, Williams, Elson and Butler.
In theory. We won't know until next April or May if this group is more versatile or if its completely useless. I think there's plenty of reason for optimism and remain convinced that the 2005-06 Spurs were a hairsbreadth away from going back-to-back. IMO, they've adequately addressed need areas this summer and have created roster versatility for on-court situations while also creating roster flexibility that should allow them to make a deal to address another pressing need without completely remaking their roster. Two different sorts of versatility, both rather important to their success in the coming year.
Make no mistake, though: if Elson and Butler are flops and Bonner turns into a red-headed Hedo Turkoglu (without the rebounding), things could get bad pretty quickly. At worst, I still think the Spurs are a 2nd Round team -- Tim Duncan's presence alone pretty much assures them of that. At best, if some of these calculated gambles pay off and they can get a season of relative health from Duncan and Ginobili, they're going to be awfully difficult to beat.
Insert Brady Bunch joke here.
The two keywords that are more concerning to me are "trust" and "doghouse". I hope this roster has more of the former and none of the latter.
Elson with greater defensive mobility and Butler who can punish Dirk in the low post have a better chance of staying on the floor against the Mavs than Nesterovic or Mohammed.
Spurs need to jettison Barry. He's been with them for two years and hasn't established himself, spotty at best. Time to move on.
The First Month Roster must to include the Players of the last Year
2005/2006 (8 Players)
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Horry
Oberto
Finley
Beno
News on Roster:
Bonner-Butler-Elson and 1 more
Inactives (1 Active):Vaughn-Williams
The First Choice of Pop always is if the player know the system
Why would Eric Williams be a lock for the 12-man Roster? He didn't make the 12-man roster on one of the worst teams in the league, Toronto Raptors. We already have a defensive specialist with limited offensive potential. IMO, he's on the Inactive List.
The other IL victim will be Oberto or Vaughn, depending on how much confidence Pop has in Beno.
Sorry, but you forgot Brent Barry and you said "Tim" when I think you meant "Tony". Both are definite locks for the 12-man rotation, leaving one more of the players listed out of the loop. Which one will it be?
To me, this is what the roster, without additions and only subtractions, will look like next year:
Starting:
SF - Bruce Bowen
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Francisco Elson (I believe eventually Butler will take this spot)
SG - Manu Ginobili
PG - Tony Parker
Bench:
1. Michael Finley (SF-SG)
2. Jackie Butler (C)
3. Matt Bonner (PF)
4. Beno Udrih (PG)
5. Fabricio Oberto (PF-C)
6. Robert Horry
7. Jaque Vaughn
8. Rich Melzer
Now, I realize that that leaves off Brent Barry and Eric Williams. Like Kori said, Williams and Barry will most likely be traded before training camp starts. To who? I don't know. Maybe Pop wants to go after Darius Miles, who knows. I can't tell you what the Spurs will do with Barry and Williams, but I have a feeling they'll be traded.
Now, that would leave the Spurs with new players, not that I know who they would be.
If this scenario did happen, the Spurs might be inclined to play Melzer and try to develop him. He is a long SF if I remember correctly. Duncan will move to center when Horry or Bonner are in the game. I think this season, Popovich will put his trust in Beno and Beno will produce fine. Beno was a pretty damn backup in his rookie year minus the playoffs. It hurt his development being played behind Van Exel last year.
The IR list to me will consist of:
Jaque Vaughn
Fabricio Oberto
(And if the Spurs don't make anymore moves...) Melzer or Williams
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