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I agree, hence why I stated "If you believe in his 3 point". If you don't, then yes, you absolutely pass. But neither of us is watching him in workouts, maybe he surprises teams by showing shooting upside and that changes the entire equation.
Demin seems to be a smart young man. he plays hard and I would assume he works hard in practise too. he will have to put on like 20lbs, but he is young, this should be possible.
but he is really a sub par athlete, so without significalty improved shooting all the great passing won't be enough to play him, because he will never be an even average defender or rebounder.
I wouldn't want to find out.
I agree, hence why I stated "If you believe in his 3 point". If you don't, then yes, you absolutely pass. But neither of us is watching him in workouts, maybe he surprises teams by showing shooting upside and that changes the entire equation.
With so many ballhandlers on the team I have a hard time seeing the value of Demin... If you're not going to give him extended opportunities to create, you're really ignoring his one potentially elite trait. Size is nice and I like the player but taking him and trying to convert him into a 3&D wing or whatever doesn't seem like a good play.
If you think there's a clear value difference, then you draft him and figure it out later on, you can always trade him (or someone else) later on for value. Right now I'm not convinced either of such gap existing, which is why I said "if you believe...", but there's rumors of him performing well in shooting drills and I'm not at the Spurs workouts, so I wouldn't rule it out. , if that's the case, he's probably going to be long gone by the time Spurs pick.
we don't need Yabusele. All we need is a starting PF and a back up C. Add 3 picks to that (Harper, Forward, Center) and we're good.
I'd rather go with a safer pick at 14 instead of a project. Fleming would be a guy who can contribute from day 1.
here lies my problem. You want to trade a pick to the Nets for Cam Johnson, but not John Collins who's a better player and younger than Cam Johnson. I guess your move is initially a trade down scenario, but we could do the same thing with Utah to get Collins and swap #14 for #21.
On paper I agree as well, in fact I don't have Demin at the top of my draft board either, just saying I wouldn't rule it out because there's information I'm missing which Spurs might not.
One thing I'll say though, Fleming is no guarantee either. He has a one year sample of shooting the ball well, no on ball skills whatsoever, and his defensive upside is predicated more on tools than tape. He needs work and might end up unplayable if his 3 pointer regresses to previous seasons. That is always a risk, one that I would also consider taking, but acknowledging what it is.
Last edited by Ariel; 05-23-2025 at 10:57 AM.
Should trade this pick for future once we pick Scoot 2.0. Our books are clean for 3 years more, we can still pay real players.
You're doing your best to win the worst spurstalk member of the year award, tbh.
Harper is not Scoot 2.0, Scoot was full of red flags which lots of us around here were warning about: athleticism was way overhyped, finishing at the rim was poor, relied too much on jump shots, questionable shooter, inefficient. Harper looks a lot more skilled, gets to the rim at will and finishes with efficiency and craft, is way bigger, , he even shoots better. Scoot's hype came mainly from good performances in his first season at Ignite at just 17 years old, everyone projected based on that (myself included) but the following year red flags were clear but he had gained too much momentum for most media people to go against the grain and move him back.
Don't bother, he's a re . Most of his posts are just bad bait attempts.
Two things. I believe CamJohnson to be the better player than John Collins. I could agree that Collins is a better fit for what the Spurs need but I also feel that Sochan is a much better defender than Collins on the perimeter and which is why I feel I wouldn't want to upgrade Sochan to Collins. A look at impact stats also show Collins as a player in decline while both Cam Johnson and Sochan are improving or performing their role at a higher level relative to the past.
Next, I suspect the Jazz will want to keep Collins or extend him this season as they have seen no or diminishing returns from tanking. I feel it's going to be the Markannen situation all over again with Ainge demanding too much ( I also suspect he won't trade Collins just to get 7 slots above their second pick). In contrast the Nets have less of a need to keep Cam Johnson and getting the 14th instead of the 27th is a no brainer for them.
I been high on Demin 2 years ago tbh. He could be special if he can put it all together, it's just a huge if. Especially him being able to score in any type of way is a huge questionmark. Other than that a 3-and-D point forward archetype is always super valuable, but that depends on his jumper.
Fleming shot 39% from 3 on 159 shots, that's a fairly large sample size. It's not a big gamble to think his shot will translate, especially due to his size. He's also always been a player who averaged a good number of stocks and did well in the agility drills, so like I said, he's a safer bet. If he pans out he would be a huge piece in our roster construction.
John Collins is not declining, he actually got back to his former Atlanta self this season. Bringing up impact stats for a team that had the worst record in basketball is not an argument. They were tanking harder than any other team.
Second thing, you still don't seem to understand that Collins has a player option. This can not be a Lauri situation, because he actually does not want to stay there. Besides that the Jazz don't have a lot of cap space and need to tank again for the Boozer/Dybantsa draft, which means they will try to take on bad contracts for picks. You should know how that goes, we did that the last couple of years.
if Carter Bryant is at 14 I'm jumping to the podium myself to announce the pick
the more tape I watch on Fleming, the better he looks.
What I really like about him is how good he is at relocating. He sets good screens and then immediately pops out to the 3-point line to get open. Close outs don't really affect him, he just shoots over the defender. A lot of his 3s were contested.
He's also not that streaky. During 35 games he made at least 1 3-point shot in 28 of them, 2 or more 3s in 19 of those games. There are games where he misses 3 in a row and just keeps firing and knocking them down eventually.
He moves very fluidly and can attack closeouts. His handle is quite loose, but he only needs like 2 dribbles to get from the 3-point line to the rim. He misses some bunnies at times. I think he just needs to learn how to use his strong body better and bump defenders with his shoulder.
He's a good roll man and often seals his defender deep in the paint. His footwork in the post could use some work and his hook shot, while looking decent, rims out a bit too often. Again this is stuff you can easily improve with some attention to detail. He can also finish with both hands.
I think he would be a match up nightmare, because he can bully smaller defenders inside and draw bigs out to the perimeter. Running some offball action where he's the screener and then pops out to the 3-point line could be very effective with all the attention Victor demands.
He should also be a very efficient smallball 5. There were smaller line ups that couldn't guard him at all at the college level. Shooting off the dribble also needs some work, but again I buy his jumper.
And as I said he's a great cutter. So all those spoon fed oops Sochan gets from Wemby, you can give Fleming with the difference that he's actually a shooting threat. He'll always be a problem cutting from the wing to the rim, especially with his size and foot speed. How are you going to guard a perimeter player with a 7-5 wingspan?
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 05-24-2025 at 04:31 AM.
"The same way you guard Kevin Durant in the playoffs, with a fat Patty Mills. Mitch, take notes from El Jefe." -
by the way:
Giannis: 6'11" wiith shoes, 243 lbs with a 7'3" wingspan and 9'6'' standing reach
Fleming: 6’8 ¼" barefoot, 232.4 lbs with a 7’5 ¼" wingspan and 9’1 ½" standing reach
not saying he's Giannis, but if you want someone with a similar physical profile and a 3-point shot, it won't get much closer.
Fluidity, fundamentals, read and react ability, instincts and feel… to me, a 6 foot player who mirrors Giannis in these categories is closer to Giannis overall than a guy who matches Giannis with his size. Not saying Fleming doesn’t have any of these, but I’m reminded of many players (mostly centers obviously) now and past who had 1% of Giannis’ talent and didn’t do anything special.
Yes! Fleming is a must pick!
He fits our need perfectly.
The Fleming thing is getting out of control again. waiting till the suggestion to draft him at #2, because he is the Giannis clone.
as some mentioned, at some point you think about drafting him. that point wasn‘t #8 and it‘s not #14, it might be in the mid 20s, if you have a pick there.
older, low compe ion, failed big time whenever it counted, average athlete. (that‘s one of the problems, when you only play low quality compe ion, even an average athlete looks like a superior athlete, when his opponents are all 3rd class athletes). but yes, he seems to be a humble and good character young man and likely will be a hard worker. But so are some others in this class.
I’m sticking with my comp of something between Eason, Peyton Watson, Achiuwa for Rasheer, which might be fine for what’s needed between Castle and Wemby. I kind of feel he doesn’t have the personality makeup that the Spurs are looking for at this moment though.
What personality issue do you see with Fleming?
Did you see his combine results?
2.72 seconds in lane agility - #2 in the entire class.
Runs the court faster than Cooper Flagg.
It’s not a personality “issue” per say… but I don’t think it’s the right type of personality for the current core right now. He’s stoic, and maybe too introverted, which might have been ok if we didn’t have a star or potential star on the team. Stoicism normally leads to hard work, which is great if you want to tap into their full potential. But we’re not really looking for that type… we’re looking for a supporting cast… a team guy who can be vocal when it matters, and be supportive to the leaders of the team.
you might want to check what is what. You are talking about the shuttle run and believe me, noone ever used that number as the one evidence for the overall athletic abilities of a player. Fleming tested pretty average overall and his vertical was very disappointing.
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