Future Spur: Dylan Harper

[MannyIsGod]

You're the guy who responded.

You also thought Keldon was a sure fire All Star. So maybe you should spend more time considering other possible outcomes?

You have two examples of me being wrong Scott. This one, which you now exaggerate into "a sure fire all star" which are words I never said and the Landon Donovan being a lock for a usmnt squad. The fact that these are your go to examples of me being wrong when I disagree with you are telling. I was wrong about Keldon, bit I've been right about Spurs rookies and young players far more often than I've been wrong (go read my draft day kawhi comments) so maybe you should follow my lead instead of acting like no one wanting to spend time discussiing the spurs trading away their best predraft prospect for decades outside of wemby means they are unable to consider the alternative. It's just not interesting. By all means have at it though.

Anyway enjoy the hypotheticals with no proof that they are likely at all I guess. You'll be really prepared if the Spurs go full stupid and trade Harper for DeMar or whatever.

[scott]

You have two examples of me being wrong Scott. This one, which you now exaggerate into "a sure fire all star" which are words I never said and the Landon Donovan being a lock for a usmnt squad. The fact that these are your go to examples of me being wrong when I disagree with you are telling. I was wrong about Keldon, bit I've been right about Spurs rookies and young players far more often than I've been wrong (go read my draft day kawhi comments) so maybe you should follow my lead instead of acting like no one wanting to spend time discussiing the spurs trading away their best predraft prospect for decades outside of wemby means they are unable to consider the alternative. It's just not interesting. By all means have at it though.

Anyway enjoy the hypotheticals with no proof that they are likely at all I guess. You'll be really prepared if the Spurs go full stupid and trade Harper for DeMar or whatever.

I'm sure you've been wrong plenty of times - just like every single member of this site (including myself). I don't catalog them, because they honestly don't matter. I pointed out this example, because I knew it would trigger you into a defensive reply about how right you are all the time... which was the point I was discussing with another poster when you decided to chime in. You, just like most fans of sports in general, are blinded by your own bias and it leads people to say things like "I can't see any scenarios where we do [thing]" right before [thing] happens. And it happens most often with trades. The "Bonner and Blair for [star player]" meme is grounded in reality... its the kind of fans do day in and day out.

If you're not interested... don't reply. It's pretty easy. Some folks enjoy discussing the full range of outcomes, and if your specific opinion is missing from the discourse... it will be okay.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm sure you've been wrong plenty of times - just like every single member of this site (including myself). I don't catalog them, because they honestly don't matter. I pointed out this example, because I knew it would trigger you into a defensive reply about how right you are all the time... which was the point I was discussing with another poster when you decided to chime in. You, just like most fans of sports in general, are blinded by your own bias and it leads people to say things like "I can't see any scenarios where we do [thing]" right before [thing] happens. And it happens most often with trades. The "Bonner and Blair for [star player]" meme is grounded in reality... its the kind of fans do day in and day out.

If you're not interested... don't reply. It's pretty easy. Some folks enjoy discussing the full range of outcomes, and if your specific opinion is missing from the discourse... it will be okay.

You're missing the point. Your categorization of me and others who don't want to talk about that particular thing is what is wrong here. I never once said that there are no scenarios where the Spurs trade Harper. I agree with you that if they don't value him highly then they might trade him in what I would consider to be a stupid and poor trade. I don't care if you discuss it, but what you continue to do is act like those of us who don't want to discuss it are missing some wisdom or open mindedness because we're clouded by bias. No dude, we just don't think its likely and if it does happen it will be a giant disappointment. That is not the same as it can't happen. YOU are the one who is characterizing others in a weird way simply because they don't want to talk about these pretty ty scenarios. I also don't want to talk about the Spurs trading Wemby in a Luka style trade. Is that bias?

I expect better from you, Scott. This is Mr. Body level from you and really weird overall.

[ace3g]

[ginobilized]

Great news! Sounds like a bright kid.

[ginobilized]

Great news! Sounds like a bright kid.

[scott]

You're missing the point. Your categorization of me and others who don't want to talk about that particular thing is what is wrong here. I never once said that there are no scenarios where the Spurs trade Harper.

Then I wasn't talking about you, so what's your problem?

I agree with you that if they don't value him highly then they might trade him in what I would consider to be a stupid and poor trade.

Perfect, thanks.

I don't care if you discuss it, but what you continue to do is act like those of us who don't want to discuss it are missing some wisdom or open mindedness because we're clouded by bias.

"Continue to do"? I made a single comment to Mo about it, and then you jumped in. But you are clouded by bias. It's evident in most of your posts. But, most people are.

No dude, we just don't think its likely and if it does happen it will be a giant disappointment. That is not the same as it can't happen.

There are people who literally post "The Spurs aren't trading #2". You may not be one of those people, but they exist (some of them have even responded just in the last few pages!). Consider for a moment that maybe I was referring to them and that the world doesn't revolve around you.

YOU are the one who is characterizing others in a weird way simply because they don't want to talk about these pretty ty scenarios. I also don't want to talk about the Spurs trading Wemby in a Luka style trade. Is that bias?

Mo's comment: "Before everyone get's their panties in a wad"

Me: "Yeah, it makes these convos tough because people get their panties in a wad"

You: [Panties completely in a wad]

I expect better from you, Scott. This is Mr. Body level from you and really weird overall.

Panties in a wad.

[baseline bum]

Nice, that did not sound like some bull PR answer, he legit looked excited about the chance. After seeing that I'm in the do not trade period camp, not even for Giannis.

[LeBowen]

We got LMA's I mean spiritual successor.

[ace3g]

[RC_Drunkford]

would be straight lunacy to trade #2

[The Truth #6]

I see Scott providing content to discuss. I don't want the Spurs to do a dumb move, but they have a history of doing odd moves for sure.

[poopbox]

Kind of proves the "he doesn't want to be here" crowds point. The only player he mentioned was Victor. No mention of anyone else or the team itself.

[exstatic]

Kind of proves the "he doesn't want to be here" crowds point. The only player he mentioned was Victor. No mention of anyone else or the team itself.

He clearly mentioned positionless basketball, and I don’t think he was talking about Wemby.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm more excited about Harper than I would be Flagg.

[Ice009]

Kind of proves the "he doesn't want to be here" crowds point. The only player he mentioned was Victor. No mention of anyone else or the team itself.

I don't think he's allowed to mention the team by name before being drafted?

Anyway, if he doesn't want to come here, what do you think is his main reason why? The more I think about it, if it's because of the guys already here like De'Aaron, Steph etc. and if it's because he doesn't want to compete against them, then he's soft and shouldn't be here anyway. If he's a compe or, he'd want to go against those guys in practice, and in my opinion, they'll all make each other better. I think he's more of the latter and will want to compete to form a formidable guard trio.

[poopbox]

I don't think he's allowed to mention the team by name before being drafted?

Anyway, if he doesn't want to come here, what do you think is his main reason why? The more I think about it, if it's because of the guys already here like De'Aaron, Steph etc. and if it's because he doesn't want to compete against them, then he's soft and shouldn't be here anyway. If he's a compe or, he'd want to go against those guys in practice, and in my opinion, they'll all make each other better. I think he's more of the latter and will want to compete to form a formidable guard trio.

1. Money. If everyone progresses into the player spurs fans want them to, Dylan might be the odd man out financially unless the Spurs decide to go deep into the second apron. Fox is going to be on a max. Victor is going to be on a supermax. That leaves one max or near max slot open between Castle and Harper, and Castle gets 1st crack at it since he is eligible for an extension first. No agent want's their player going to a team where his future money is tied to someone else on the team failing. That is the situation Harper runs into if he is picked by San Antonio. For him to maximize his earnings he has to have one of Fox or Castle leave so he can claim that salary slot.

2. Fit. If he comes to San Antonio it is likely he comes off the bench to start. No top 5 player want's to come off the bench. It's almost impossible to win ROY coming off the bench. Flagg won't be coming off the bench in Dallas. Bailey won't be coming off the bench in Philly. Whoever Washington and Utah draft will probably start day one. Harper and his agent is going to look at that and say all these other players are starting but I am / my client is coming off the bench for a team that has been in the lottery for years in a row? How are we supposed to be the future franchise point guard if we are starting out off the bench? Can you think of all the great point guards who came into this league coming off the bench first? Not to many. All that position less basketball talk is just talk and Harper trying to say the right thing. No ball dominant guard want's to play with another ball dominant guard because all it does is take away their touches.

Without the ball in his hands Dylan Harper is doing what for San Antonio exactly? Playing great defense? Probably not most rookie guards are bad defensively. Hitting a lot of catching and shoot 3's? Probably not it's one of the weakest parts of his game? Constantly cutting to the basket for easy points? Probably not all he going to do is run into Sochan he spends most of his time on offense right at the rim.

If you playing him off ball then...where? You cutting Devin or Keldon or Julian minutes back so you can have Harper stand around without the ball?

Then their are the team building and team financials aspect of it. You about to max out a ball dominant guard, while having another ball dominant guard ( remember Castle didn't even want to work out for teams who already had a point guard cause that is how he sees himself), and now you going to draft another one with the number 2 pick? Ball dominant guards are one of the few positions of strength for the Spurs so you going to triple down on that and get another one? Doesn't make much logical sense. I got 250 million and I got the number 2 pick, should I spend both of those things on point guards, cause that is what the Spurs are about to do. Does that make sense to you?

The allowed to mention team name isn't a real thing. Victor mentioned the spurs plenty of times last year. Players in last year and this year draft both mentioned playing for the Spurs and playing with Victor. Agents tell teams not to do it so they don't alienate other teams but there is no real rule that says you can't say what team you want to play for.

Also hilarious that Fox straight up ran Haliburtion out of town in Sacramento and then what happens, he comes to San Antonio where they are about to draft another young guard who he knows is sooner or later going to replace him.

[exstatic]

1. Money. If everyone progresses into the player spurs fans want them to, Dylan might be the odd man out financially unless the Spurs decide to go deep into the second apron. Fox is going to be on a max. Victor is going to be on a supermax. That leaves one max or near max slot open between Castle and Harper, and Castle gets 1st crack at it since he is eligible for an extension first. No agent want's their player going to a team where his future money is tied to someone else on the team failing. That is the situation Harper runs into if he is picked by San Antonio. For him to maximize his earnings he has to have one of Fox or Castle leave so he can claim that salary slot.

2. Fit. If he comes to San Antonio it is likely he comes off the bench to start. No top 5 player want's to come off the bench. It's almost impossible to win ROY coming off the bench. Flagg won't be coming off the bench in Dallas. Bailey won't be coming off the bench in Philly. Whoever Washington and Utah draft will probably start day one. Harper and his agent is going to look at that and say all these other players are starting but I am / my client is coming off the bench for a team that has been in the lottery for years in a row? How are we supposed to be the future franchise point guard if we are starting out off the bench? Can you think of all the great point guards who came into this league coming off the bench first? Not to many. All that position less basketball talk is just talk and Harper trying to say the right thing. No ball dominant guard want's to play with another ball dominant guard because all it does is take away their touches.

Without the ball in his hands Dylan Harper is doing what for San Antonio exactly? Playing great defense? Probably not most rookie guards are bad defensively. Hitting a lot of catching and shoot 3's? Probably not it's one of the weakest parts of his game? Constantly cutting to the basket for easy points? Probably not all he going to do is run into Sochan he spends most of his time on offense right at the rim.

If you playing him off ball then...where? You cutting Devin or Keldon or Julian minutes back so you can have Harper stand around without the ball?

Then their are the team building and team financials aspect of it. You about to max out a ball dominant guard, while having another ball dominant guard ( remember Castle didn't even want to work out for teams who already had a point guard cause that is how he sees himself), and now you going to draft another one with the number 2 pick? Ball dominant guards are one of the few positions of strength for the Spurs so you going to triple down on that and get another one? Doesn't make much logical sense. I got 250 million and I got the number 2 pick, should I spend both of those things on point guards, cause that is what the Spurs are about to do. Does that make sense to you?

The allowed to mention team name isn't a real thing. Victor mentioned the spurs plenty of times last year. Players in last year and this year draft both mentioned playing for the Spurs and playing with Victor. Agents tell teams not to do it so they don't alienate other teams but there is no real rule that says you can't say what team you want to play for.

Also hilarious that Fox straight up ran Haliburtion out of town in Sacramento and then what happens, he comes to San Antonio where they are about to draft another young guard who he knows is sooner or later going to replace him.

Fox isn’t the alpha here, to be running off players. He’s also not a long term piece. If both young guards work out, PATFO will sit down with Klutch and find a landing place for him in four years or so.

[Ariel]

Supposedly Harper is working with multiple teams. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's probably the smart thing to do, to keep options open, but if anything I'm getting the sense he'd prefer to go elsewhere, regardless of his very politically correct speech. His father's tweets are very telling also. I'm guessing he wants to kick-start his career as a big fish in a little pond, I'm not sure landing KD bodes well for this. Not saying Spurs should curtail their options around him, but this is something to watch I think.

[scott]

1. Money. If everyone progresses into the player spurs fans want them to, Dylan might be the odd man out financially unless the Spurs decide to go deep into the second apron. Fox is going to be on a max. Victor is going to be on a supermax. That leaves one max or near max slot open between Castle and Harper, and Castle gets 1st crack at it since he is eligible for an extension first. No agent want's their player going to a team where his future money is tied to someone else on the team failing. That is the situation Harper runs into if he is picked by San Antonio. For him to maximize his earnings he has to have one of Fox or Castle leave so he can claim that salary slot.

2. Fit. If he comes to San Antonio it is likely he comes off the bench to start. No top 5 player want's to come off the bench. It's almost impossible to win ROY coming off the bench. Flagg won't be coming off the bench in Dallas. Bailey won't be coming off the bench in Philly. Whoever Washington and Utah draft will probably start day one. Harper and his agent is going to look at that and say all these other players are starting but I am / my client is coming off the bench for a team that has been in the lottery for years in a row? How are we supposed to be the future franchise point guard if we are starting out off the bench? Can you think of all the great point guards who came into this league coming off the bench first? Not to many. All that position less basketball talk is just talk and Harper trying to say the right thing. No ball dominant guard want's to play with another ball dominant guard because all it does is take away their touches.

Without the ball in his hands Dylan Harper is doing what for San Antonio exactly? Playing great defense? Probably not most rookie guards are bad defensively. Hitting a lot of catching and shoot 3's? Probably not it's one of the weakest parts of his game? Constantly cutting to the basket for easy points? Probably not all he going to do is run into Sochan he spends most of his time on offense right at the rim.

If you playing him off ball then...where? You cutting Devin or Keldon or Julian minutes back so you can have Harper stand around without the ball?

Then their are the team building and team financials aspect of it. You about to max out a ball dominant guard, while having another ball dominant guard ( remember Castle didn't even want to work out for teams who already had a point guard cause that is how he sees himself), and now you going to draft another one with the number 2 pick? Ball dominant guards are one of the few positions of strength for the Spurs so you going to triple down on that and get another one? Doesn't make much logical sense. I got 250 million and I got the number 2 pick, should I spend both of those things on point guards, cause that is what the Spurs are about to do. Does that make sense to you?

The allowed to mention team name isn't a real thing. Victor mentioned the spurs plenty of times last year. Players in last year and this year draft both mentioned playing for the Spurs and playing with Victor. Agents tell teams not to do it so they don't alienate other teams but there is no real rule that says you can't say what team you want to play for.

Also hilarious that Fox straight up ran Haliburtion out of town in Sacramento and then what happens, he comes to San Antonio where they are about to draft another young guard who he knows is sooner or later going to replace him.

People will scoff at you, but the money aspect is legit. I've said this before... but we can't forget that this is these dude's job. They want to maximize their earnings, just like most other human beings on this planet. No high end player wants to go to a situation where their possible career earnings could face obstacles. It's easy for us as fans to say "take the BPA and figure out later" (which is the right approach from a fan and team POV), but we need to understand that we're talking about a human being who has his own financial interests to look out for. He isn't here to "figure it out later" - every moment matters and he needs to figure it out now. There are contract and sponsor dollars at stake, and we can't hold it against guys for considering that... the same way I don't hold it against my employees who ask for a raise or pursue other career opportunities.

People will respond with some like "they're already making millions... they are just greedy" but that noise. These guys should try and maximize their earnings window while they can. Yeah, it's nice and helpful when a guy leaves a little money on the table for the team... but I absolutely do not blame them one bit when they don't.

[RC_Drunkford]

Like I said in another thread:

the Spurs might think that breaking the #2 pick up into 2 top 10 picks (8 and 10) plus future Knicks picks while also being able to keep Vassell, could be the move instead of drafting Harper.

[mo7888]

Like I said in another thread:

the Spurs might think that breaking the #2 pick up into 2 top 10 picks (8 and 10) plus future Knicks picks while also being able to keep Vassell, could be the move instead of drafting Harper.

This is all starting to become a blur.... how would Brooklyn be able to give us 8 & 10?

[MannyIsGod]

Like I said in another thread:

the Spurs might think that breaking the #2 pick up into 2 top 10 picks (8 and 10) plus future Knicks picks while also being able to keep Vassell, could be the move instead of drafting Harper.

If this is truly what the Spurs think then we are royally ed because this would be monumentally stupid.

I'm not sure its likely that Harper comes off the bench at all. If he's good enough to win ROY against Flagg, then he's definitely not coming off the bench for long.

If any of those things you listed are an issue for Harper to the point he lets the Spurs know about it, that is going to be a giant red flag and we'll dodge something. Nothing about the kid and his history make me think that is the case, at all. You guys realize he went to Rutgers, right? Does that sound like a kid who is primarily concerned about money or winning awards? He's also not just a random kid coming up from a family with no money. Maybe he's already thinking his second contract, but given that the kid didn't go somewhere to make as much as possible in one year of NIL and coming from an NBA family doesn't make me think that's the case.

[baseline bum]

would be straight lunacy to trade #2

Yeah to me the only way I could have entertained trading him was if he was if he didn't want to be here because of Steph and De'Aaron. But he looked pretty ing excited about playing here in that interview posted so those concerns are completely out the window. Just draft the man and if the three initiators lineup isn't working in 2-3 years then you make trades to better optimize. But damn the upside of having three high end ballhandlers with a finisher like Victor is tantalizing as .

[baseline bum]

People will scoff at you, but the money aspect is legit. I've said this before... but we can't forget that this is these dude's job. They want to maximize their earnings, just like most other human beings on this planet. No high end player wants to go to a situation where their possible career earnings could face obstacles. It's easy for us as fans to say "take the BPA and figure out later" (which is the right approach from a fan and team POV), but we need to understand that we're talking about a human being who has his own financial interests to look out for. He isn't here to "figure it out later" - every moment matters and he needs to figure it out now. There are contract and sponsor dollars at stake, and we can't hold it against guys for considering that... the same way I don't hold it against my employees who ask for a raise or pursue other career opportunities.

People will respond with some like "they're already making millions... they are just greedy" but that noise. These guys should try and maximize their earnings window while they can. Yeah, it's nice and helpful when a guy leaves a little money on the table for the team... but I absolutely do not blame them one bit when they don't.

I feel like Victor is the trump card here though. Harper has to figure he's got a great shot to be playing for les in the next 2-3 years and with that comes not only big money contracts but endorsement opportunities too.