Me, too. I think Sochan's shooting development is one of the 3 most important storylines for the Spurs this next season. If he can become an average 3 point shooter the Spurs path to contention becomes much clearer.
If Sochan learns to shoot even an open corner 3 a la Bowen, his defensive versatility will make him a very, very useful role player on a winning team. These hyperboles need to stop.This Aaron Gordon comp needs to stop, Gordon had a lot more skills is many areas than Sochan and was an athletic monster with way better handles and ability to create his own shot.
Sochan gets occasionally blocked by the rim ffs
The issues are way beyond his lack of 3pts shooting
Sochan is a good player, even if he doesn't improve the 3 point shot, it's just that he doesn't fit our roster. He would be fine on a team with many good shooters. But if he wants to be all-star good, he needs a three point shot.
Too many people downplay his offseason work as "shooting in an empty gym." Well, that's how you get better. Hopefully it translates to becoming a better shooter in the games, but at least we know he is working hard to improve in the area where he is weak.
I actually think the opposite. Sochan has shown that he is willing to do whatever the coaches tell him to, despite him being uncomfortable doing so. One handed FTs, PG, backup centre, defending the best perimeter player, defending bigs, work on his rebounds, he did them all. Whether he was effective doing them is another matter, but his willingness to do whatever it takes is why I’m still relatively high on him.
His shot is more fluid so far, it’s closer to one motion now. The legs kick sideways for some reason so the balance is not all there. There is still a bit of a hitch on release but it’s a better looking shot. He will never be Ray Allen but as long as he’s willing to let it fly even when semi covered I’m happy.
I would argue that he is asked to do those "uncomfortable" things because he has shown himself not capable of doing the more traditional things that his position/size typically demand. He has such an unorthodox skill set for his size/position that utilizing him effectively in the context of a 5 man lineup is tough. I appreciate the fact he is willing to shoot free throws 1 handed despite the stigma that brings, but it wouldn't even be a consideration if he could just shoot effectively in the first place like most professional basketball players who aren't 7+ feet tall.
I enjoy Jeremy being on the team in terms of personality and vibes, but I still can't pinpoint how he can be a net overall winning player with his offensive deficiencies.
Of course numbers don’t agree with you and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over again despite it being pointed out to you multiple times.I'm not saying Gordon was elite everywhere, just had (a lot) better athleticism and fundamentals than Sochan.
Spurs fans (not just ST) keep pushing those comp (like the Draymond one smh) as a copping mechanism, it seems to me.
You can use the same stupid comp with HOFers if you want also, you'll definitely find a specific area that gives you hope.
The issue (I have) with Sochan is that he's not limited in just one area that could require patience (his age seems to be him best skill), he's poor in a lot of areas and the perspective of him improving in all or even majority of them is very poor.
Even with a decent 3pts shot, he'd still be an issue in the passing dept, the own shot creation, the handles or the athleticism
Who knows I could eat my words if those stunning practices videos were, as many seem to think, a sign of a compete Uturn...
Based on craftednba, which admittedly isn’t the be all and end all but a data point, sochan is 57th %ile as a passer and 60th in creation
For advanced stats he’s middle of the league in adjusted assists to pass %, assists points created, potential assists and secondary assists. About 40th %ile on drives. Nothing all world but far from poor in any of them, especially when considering he was the PF for most of the year.
What are you basing your assertions on?
No question he had to shoot one 1-handed fTs because he sucked at it, the matter is that he still did it and improved (for a year, then quickly regressed).
As for the rest he kept at it despite him failing at it (PG, backup centre) because the coach thought it’s better for the team for some reason. He’s not stupid, he has social media so he knows he is getting roasted online for it, but he was mentally strong enough to keep at it and block out all the negativity, which is opposite to what Simmons did.
Other things he did well. He’s a good cutter, he defended reasonably well (about 70th %ile in FG% difference) and is a very good, if not elite offensive rebounder at 90th.
What hyperboles?
His lack of shooting is far from being the only issue, it's just factual for whoever watch him play without their emo glasses.
Bowen is another funny comp I sometimes see, and it's as insane as the Draymond or Gordon comp. Bowen was a complete player, less athletic than Sochan but complete fundamentals, high BBIQ and poise. Things I've been waiting to see in Sochan.
Anyway, you guys are as usual predicatable, it's summer time, it's been too long you've watched a Spurs game and next season you'll again come back to your senses.
Same stuff happened with Vassell and now 90% of the fanbase wants him gone
You still don't know how to use and interpret stats. I'm not wasting my time with you Karen
Pray tell how you interpret them, because you’ve been throwing that line out dozens of time without ever explaining how. Well, except that time where you basically said stats are useless and your eye test is the best gauge in talent.
Stay proud in adamantly misunderstanding the term Karen despite being clowned by the site for it. Your refusal to learn is your strongest trait.
You like to write your truth rather than the truth.
The truth is that I explained you many times not to isolate stats without context, that you could make them say literally anything that way.
That what lobbyists, politicians, lawyers and sells men do for a living
I don't need stats to see Sochan getting blocked by the rim, miss countless gimmies or struggle with is handles when he's in the post.
That's my last answer, I'm not starting another insane convo with u, let's just agree to disagree
Translated: I don’t have any advanced stats to back my position, so I’ll lash out, and then run away.
I'm curious, who is his player comp is if things hit in your opinion? I've seen Aaron Gordon mentioned which is interesting. I do think Gordon is a better vertical athlete and has more traditional/translatable skills, but I can see some similarities. Even with Gordon it wasn't looking good until he found Jokic who is basketball savant to bring out his potential. Not a lot of examples of Sochan swiss army types being winning players feels like.
I see people of late in this thread excited about his change in shooting motion, but I just can't get there in terms of any meaningful 3 pt shooting and volume improvement happening at this point. It COULD happen, but from a front office roster building perspective I don't think they can put eggs in that basket anymore as we head into season 4 with little change. I think Sochan is a nice to have option off the bench, especially for certain match ups, but not at the salary I am expecting the Spurs to fork over ($18-20 million per). Etching Jeremy in as a 28 minute a night guy whether he starts or not is just overrating his abilities as I see it. I could be wrong, though. Maybe Mitch will unlock something now that the team is his to mold.
Bowen was a tremendous player ON DEFENSE. Guess what so is Sohan by metrics, one of tbe sbsolute most successful taking on players like SGA, Brunson, Ant, Doncic. While offense Bowen had a better 3P% 40 to 30. Sochan last year had a 10% better FG%, more blocks, rebounds and asst. And the vaunted lack of 3 point attempt, Bosen was pretty steady at 3 per game. Last year was a down year for Sochan at 1.7 per game but the prior year was 3. Overall I’d say Sochan to date is proving to be a greater offensive threat. And uf you think Bowen had better handles than Sochan lol.
Can't in good faith compare 3 pt attempt rate now vs 20 years ago, completely different era at this point especially in regards to 3 pointers. Bowen's value on offense is he reliably stretched the floor by camping in the corners. Sochan doesn't have a place on the floor offensively that teams have to respect/account for. Bowen in his prime is one of the best positional perimeter defenders the league has ever seen (and he cost Duncan a couple DPOY's because of it), Sochan has a ways to go to be in that conversation.
Dude, you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say he's a perfect player with only one problem, I didn't compare him to Bowen, and I haven't watch a game for as long as you or anybody could have, i.e. their last regular season game. The hyperbole I alluded to involves measuring him against a set standard you and others have chosen in Aaron Gordon, when that's not the only pathway to him being valuable. What I did say is that there's a path to him being a VALUABLE contributor on a winning team if only he's able to make an open corner 3, that is as far as the Bowen comparison goes. You have some serious bias against Sochan for whatever reason, he seems to be much more important to you (in a negative way) than he is to me. As long as Spurs don't overpay him on an extension, there's no downside to keeping him another year and seeing how it goes. That's the extent of what I said, and I don't think it's too hard to grasp provided you read it carefully and without prejudice.What hyperboles?
His lack of shooting is far from being the only issue, it's just factual for whoever watch him play without their emo glasses.
Bowen is another funny comp I sometimes see, and it's as insane as the Draymond or Gordon comp. Bowen was a complete player, less athletic than Sochan but complete fundamentals, high BBIQ and poise. Things I've been waiting to see in Sochan.
Anyway, you guys are as usual predicatable, it's summer time, it's been too long you've watched a Spurs game and next season you'll again come back to your senses.
Same stuff happened with Vassell and now 90% of the fanbase wants him gone
Last edited by Ariel; 06-25-2025 at 05:02 PM.
Ok. In the last three years Aaron Gordon has averaged 2.5, 1.9 and 3.4 per game. In those years he had an outlier % of 43.6, and the other two 29.0 and 34.7. I’ll accept that different teams run different schemes so maybe the importance of 3 pointers is greater for one team than another but all things taken together by these metrics Sochan’s shooting 3 to 3.5 at 35% he’s doing his job. Think I’ve gone as far as I want with this.
This might be an overly simplistic way to look at things... but I won't believe in Sochan's shooting progress until he no longer needs to shoot FTs 1-handed just to hit them 70% clip. He's been using that trick for 3 years, the fact that he still relies upon it isn't really that great a sign.
You're a (funny) idiot.
I say isolated stats are stupid and your answer is I don't have stats
Conveniently skipping the points I made by isolating one sentence
Never change, we'd miss the entertainment.
Last edited by Pauleta14; 06-25-2025 at 05:05 PM.
Nope. I didn't
Also never said Bowen was better on man defender
It's not even funny if you don't take time to read properly tbh
For the handles it was a comp with Gordon
As for Bowen, I was referring to his BBIQ and poise. Even if it was at a lower level Bowen used to be the 1st scoring option when Sochan can't create his own shot and needs to be spoon-fed.
My point was that those comp are insanely stupid bc limited to just one aspect (the 3pt shooting)
Try again, I'm waiting for the draft
It’s a comfort zone. Would you chide Rick Barry for shooting them granny style? That’s not a translatable form to the game floor, either.
Bro apply your own advises to yourself and read me again...
My point was to highlight the absurdity of those Gordon comp, not to defend them.
I never said you said Sochan was perfect, I pointed out that the "as soon as he fixes his 3pt shot he'll be ok" narrative is insane because he has so many other flaws in his game that make him a liability.
Using his age and comp of other players 3pts % at the same stage of their careers is stupid because those players are so different despite having the defensive mind in common.
Obviously like with every (young) players it's always a bet, based on a mul ude of criteria, we just happen to disagree on the outcome and I explained why I don't believe in him based on what he's shown up until now.
I'd love to be wrong, especially if he remains a Spur. We'll see
Rick Barry wasn't a 3pt shooter either... so yeah... I would question whether a guy who shoots FTs granny style could develop into a viable 3pt shooter.
Edit: you're a big fan of the FT% shooting signal (and I am too, just not quite as much as you)... I view hitting 70% FTs while having to shoot them 1 handed *for 3 years* because your two handed FTs are terrible as a negative shooting signal.
Rick Barry only shot 31.3% 3p
Sochan has developed exactly how he's been told to. It's wild people still claim he's not willing to do something when he played out of position and changed his free throw Ll to the national media mocking him and did it to his best effort. People will still make story lines up.
You can hate his ability but his professionalism has been what you hope every young player would have when asked to be flexible.
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