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  1. #1
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    Web Posted: 12/19/2004 12:00 AM CST

    Mike Monroe
    Express-News Staff Writer

    Brent Barry didn't sign a four-year, $21 million contract with the Spurs in July to be a practice player getting spot minutes during garbage time.

    So the 10-year NBA veteran guard hopes his 16 solid minutes in Friday's game at New Orleans and 14 productive minutes in Saturday's victory over Golden State can be the start of a return to regular playing time in coach Gregg Popovich's rotation.
    "I feel I'm at a point of having to earn minutes," Barry said. "I've never been a guy to go to a coach and say, 'I've got to have minutes,' so I'm just trying to work hard in practice and earn my spot back in the rotation.

    "Was (Friday) night a start? I hope so. It's like that movie, 'What About Bob?' Baby steps to the elevator ... baby steps to the bathroom."

    After playing only 25 minutes in the previous four games, including a season-low two minutes in Wednesday's game against Orlando, Barry got an early call Friday when Devin Brown, who has received most of the backup time at big guard, was struggling.

    Barry came in Saturday with 7:53 left in the second period, hit a quick 3-pointer and helped ignite the Spurs' 17-0 run.

    "It felt good to get in a rhythm," Barry said. "Heck, it felt good just to come out of a game and be sweating. My shot will come. I know that. But it has to come in the rhythm and flow of a game."

    Barry's nickname from his five seasons with the Seattle SuperSonics — "Bones" — finally has been picked up by his new teammates.

    "It's starting in this locker room now," he said. "'Leaky' (Malik Rose) has picked up on it, and once he starts, everyone else will follow. That's the kind of guy 'Leaky' is."

    Warriors a step slow: Golden State coach Mike Montgomery didn't need long to identify his team's problems.

    "If you can't stop people and keep them in front of you on defense," Montgomery said, "you can't win."

    The Warriors limited Tim Duncan to 12 points in 27 minutes but struggled to keep both Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili out of the lane.

    "As a team, we have to get some pride and stop the guy in front of us," Warriors forward Troy Murphy said. "Cliff (Robinson) did a great job of stopping Duncan, and we all have to defend more like that."

    Odds 'n' ends: After making only 3 of 11 free throws in Saturday's first half, the Spurs went 11 of 11 in the final two quarters. Brown and Beno Udrih each went 4 for 4 from the foul line in the second half. ... The Spurs handed out 30 assists for the second time in four games. They had a season-high 33 against Cleveland on Dec. 11. For the season, they are averaging 22.88 assists, an increase of more than two per game from last season. ... Duncan has led the Spurs or shared the lead in both scoring and rebounding in 18 of their 24 games this season. He has led in rebounds in every game. ... The Spurs have been outscored 48-32 in the first quarter the past two games. ... There were 12 foreign-born players in the game.


    Express-News Staff Writer Johnny Ludden and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....1f0d35dd.html

  2. #2
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    Brent Barry didn't sign a four-year, $21 million contract with the Spurs in July to be a practice player getting spot minutes during garbage time.
    Poor naive bas . When he said he was going to come here and "Steve Kerr it" for a few years....I don't think he realized just what that meant...

    I'll go on record again, and say that if Devin plays well and Barry plays well, Pop will continue to do the same thing. Because Barry will never be the defensive player Devin Brown is IMO. He's a great athlete, but he's not the athlete Devin Brown is..Devin will always be favored by Pop if he is the better defensive player.


    Now that is no crime in and of itself...but the truth is, Pop does not use a deep rotation...he ices the 9th and 10th guys on the bench historically and they go games and games and games without playing.

    For Barry to continue to get playing time Pop will have to make a drastic departure from the way he has coached in the past. He will be coaching a little bit more like Hubie.

    I don't think he's going to do it...because in the past I have seen him refuse to play guys only because they weren't as good a defenders as the guys in front of them...no matter what else they could do to help the team.

    I have been wrong about Pop before, I didn't think there was any way in he would start a rookie PG....and he surprised me...so I won't say it's impossible but there is nothing in Pop's past to indicate both Devin and Barry, and Horry and Malik, for that matter...are all going to get decent minutes....or to put it a better way...get the same opportunities in big situations in big games.... And that's a huge mistake on Pop's part.

    I hope Pop proves me wrong, and if and when he does, I will give him credit for doing so, and I will also enjoy the le we win because he changed.

    I'll also give Chump credit for being one with the sac even more than TPark. But I'll owe no apologies to the Barry haters who said he sucked and didn't think he deserved PT. They'll owe, in fact they already do.
    Last edited by whottt; 12-20-2004 at 04:38 AM.

  3. #3
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Now that is no crime in and of itself...but the truth is, Pop does not use a deep rotation...he ices the 9th and 10th guys on the bench historically and they go games and games and games without playing.
    BS. That isn't true.

    If you think it is, please give me a link.




    P.S.

    The only team in the modern history of basketball that has "properly" utilized a ten man rotation would be the Hubie Brown coached Grizzlies.

    And we all saw what happened to them in the playoffs.

  4. #4
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    BS. That isn't true.

    If you think it is, please give me a link.




    P.S.

    The only team in the modern history of basketball that has "properly" utilized a ten man rotation would be the Hubie Brown coached Grizzlies.

    And we all saw what happened to them in the playoffs.
    I'm confused, on the one hand you ask for a link, OTOH you sit there and say only one team has done what I asked...you just linked yourself...at least for the purposes of this debate.

    Now let me ask you this...how many teams have had Brent Barry and Robert Horry as their 9th and 10th men...or impact players of that caliber ?

    It's not so much that I have a problem with them being 9th and 10th men...I have a problem with them being used as traditional 9th and 10th men.


    And as for using Memphis as some kind of example of why that type of deep rotation won't work...

    Well that team was pretty successful, and their coach was COY, he lead a crap franchise to it's most sucessful season ever...and they were tough, and the main reason was their depth. Yeah we beat them in the playoffs, but we were the defending champions....That doesn't exactly make them and their deep rotation a joke.

  5. #5
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    Why cant Whottt ever admit hes just wrong?

    Why does he have to carry a freakin grudge about things for weeks on end.

  6. #6
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    Wrong about what?

    Oh and BTW STFU about me carrying a grudge about things for weeks on end...Shane.

  7. #7
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    ???

    Your the one that ed about Shane Heal not getting a chance.

    Not me, I knew the guy was CBA fodder from day 1.


    And you thinking Pop wont give Barry more time is a little ludacris.

    If he plays with the defensive intensity he showed VS GS play more.

    Pop isnt asking for Bruce Bowen defense.

    He just wants effort.

  8. #8
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    So what exactly am I wrong about that I am refusing to admit?

    That Pop is going to play Barry more than 10 mins per game for the rest of the season?

    Well geez what an ass I am for not conceding a bet that still has 75 games to go, when it was only 3 games ago that Barry played 2 minutes.


    ???

    Your the one that ed about Shane Heal not getting a chance.

    Not me, I knew the guy was CBA fodder from day 1.
    Yawn. AC and Ward were no more effective, they were more expensive and they were given more of a chance.


    And you thinking Pop wont give Barry more time is a little ludacris.

    If he plays with the defensive intensity he showed VS GS play more.

    Pop isnt asking for Bruce Bowen defense.

    He just wants effort.
    It's luidcrous?

    I think not. It's historical fact that he uses his 9th and 10th men sparingly.

  9. #9
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    Just so we are clear on this...

    Last year the 9th and 10th men were Ferry and mainly Ward(or Heal Carter)...None got consistent playing time when the team was healthy. They did not play in every game.


    The previous year it was Smitty and Ferry...it was actually Kerr more than Smitty but because of injury Kerr got an abnormally high amount of PT...and then rotted on the bench when Speedy got healthy. Even though Kerr played well the entire season.

    The reason the roles were so vague was because of injry. But basically Kerr and Ferry.


    The trend goes back for years...and to tell you the truth, I'm not upset about the times he has done it in the past, except with Kerr...I never really missed Smitty or Ferry.

    But this years team is different....this year it is Robert Horry and Brent Barry that reside in those spots...two guys that would be the top 6th men on most teams in the NBA.

    And if it's not them...it's Rose and Devin...two other guys who would be the top 6th men on most teams in the NBA.

    SO you see...we have an embarrasment of riches...and whether Pop will squander it or embrace it remains to be seen...

    What cannot be argued is that..up to this point of the season...he has most definitely squandered it in big games.

    So let's just wait and see what happens over the next 2/3rds of the season.

    If Pop gives his 9th and 10th men generous PT when the team is healthy, in big games, it will be a change from what he has done in previous years.

    My argument is based on historical fact, yours is based on Pop being a godlike icon of perfection who never makes a mistake *coughJasonKiddamongotherscough*
    Last edited by whottt; 12-20-2004 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #10
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    Just so we are clear on this...

    Last year the 9th and 10th men were Ferry and mainly Ward(or Heal Carter)...None got consistent playing time when the team was healthy. They did not play in every game.


    The previous year it was Smitty and Ferry...it was actually Kerr more than Smitty but because of injury Kerr got an abnormally high amount of PT...and then rotted on the bench when Speedy got healthy. Even though Kerr played well the entire season.
    Who were the 11th and 12th players for the past two years?

  11. #11
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    Who were the 11th and 12th players for the past two years?
    Since Pop was running an 8 man rotation it really doesn't matter.

    Take your pick

    Willis or Ferry and Kerr or Smitty in 03. Kerr only got PT because of Speedy's injury remember...


    Willis or Malik(even with Duncan injuries) and Devin or...Hart, Heal, Carter, Mercer, Carroll...take your pick there because of the lousy back up PG situation.



    After the 8th man you can pretty much take your pick...and therein lies my point and the whole basis for my argument. He has never gone beyond an 8 man main rotation, especially after the AS break...

    Now I'm not really complaining about that, I personlly didn't want to see much of Ferry or Smitty.....but in the case of Kerr in 03 and 01(at a different board).... yes I complained about it then...I complained about when our offense would stagnate...and all Kerr really had to offer was heady guard play and 3 point shooting...Barry has much more to offer.

    But the way he did ice Kerr, the way he continued to do it, even after the Dallas game, even as we blew leads, makes me think he is going to do it again.

    And others agree if only by defending Pop...

    As you'll note...TimVP derides a deep rotation as being Hubie Brownish...and in most cases he is right...it's probably not that good of an idea, and the Spurs have had pretty good success tightening it up to an 8 man rotation.

    But he's not right when he poohpoohs that type of rotation this team...because this team has the smarts and vets to pull it off and make it work and wear people down and find a hot hand...etc. Like I said...not a lot of teams in history have had 9th and 10th men the caliber of Robert Horry and Brent Barry...or Devin Brown and Malik Rose(if the worm turns)...This team should ge favored to win every game it plays this season with the type of depth and versatility it has.

    We may not have the most talented team in the NBA, in terms of individual talent...but it's damn close if we don't......and what we definitely do have is...from top to bottom, the best guard rotation in the NBA, and the best big rotation...Use them.

  12. #12
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Spurs have been very fortunate so far to be essentially injury free...which is very non typical in the NBA...being deep is a good thing even if Pop sticks with an 8 man rotation...I am not tempting fate but the odds are that we will need this depth at some points in the season...

  13. #13
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    S'not just for injuries. Observe the Grizz last season...they proved it can be done effectively.

    Rather than they(GRizz) being used as an example of why a deep rotation doesn't work.., they should be considered an example of how it can work and how to do it to make a team even better.

    I mean the Grizz weren't going to win an NBA le last season no matter what type of roation they used...but they were better because of their deep rotation...and the Spurs do have a le potential, and they do have an even deeper bench. If you got the bench you should use it to your advantage and not just consider it some type of injury back up.

  14. #14
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Whottt must be right, haven't you learned that?

  15. #15
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Rather than they(GRizz) being used as an example of why a deep rotation doesn't work.., they should be considered an example of how it can work and how to do it to make a team even better.
    of course...the word is that the players revolted against Hubie this year because half the team were in contract years and weren't getting enough minutes...

  16. #16
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    of course...the word is that the players revolted against Hubie this year because half the team were in contract years and weren't getting enough minutes...
    Nonetheless it did work to lift a crap franchise to an impressive 50 win season and their only misfortune was meeting us in the post season.

    And that sitatuon does not apply here...

    Manu, Parker, Duncan, Barry, Bowen, Rasho, Rose, Beno are all here for a looooooooooooooooooong time....

    That leaves Horry and Devin...

    #1.The deep rotation gives them more minutes than they would get normally as the 9th or 10th men, if they should move to those spots in the rotation.

    #2.Give Devin a ton of minutes this season and someone may outbid us for his services...

    So either you start him and appeal to his ego by giving him starting run in his own hometown...or you do it my way. Doing it inbetween with Devin has the most potential to cause us to lose him.



    #2.Horry is a vet min player at this stage, he got paid well last season, and he loves rings. He could have gone to a lot of teams for the vet min, he came here.

    So, good try...but...

    It'll work here. It'll work here better than it did in Memphis.

  17. #17
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    I wanna keep D-Brown.

    what's wrong with Devin, he's playing great consistently with his little minutes.

    If he played as much as Duncan, he could average as many points as him. He's like last year's Manu, coming off of the bench to give the Spurs energy.

  18. #18
    Will Work For Food foodie2's Avatar
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    If he [Devin] played as much as Duncan, he could average as many points as him.
    Huh?

    Give me a freaking break.

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