Catholic views

[ploto]

how does that reconcile with your belief that Protestants aren't going to because they aren't Catholic?

Personally, I don't think it is my place to judge anyone's eternal destination- that is why I don't like it when people do that to me. God knows people's hearts- in the end, that is all I think that matters.

I respect and appreciate all who seek to find a way toward living their beliefs and if it works for them, I don't really see a problem. If asking Mary to pray for me, especially as a mother dealing with issues a mother deals with, helps me to be a better Christian parent, then why does anyone have a problem with that? It in no way, shape, or form takes away from the praying I do to God about the exact same things. Just like asking for guidance from someone I respect and bouncing my thoughts off of that person can help me to deepen my understanding- that does not take away from my experience of God's word in the Scriptures.

You want to do it all alone- ask no one to pray for you and seek the guidance of no one- that is our choice and if it is working for you- then only you know that. But what I do works for me- deepens my faith year after year and for ANYONE ELSE to presume that they can decide how God views my faith is sanctimonious.

So, thanks for asking, but no, I don't need to go to your Church to get saved. I am fine where I am. I try to understand the zeal some feel for sharing their faith, but again I say, go convert those with no belief and leave me alone in my belief.

[ploto]

One reason I would have a problem with it is that I only use Scripture to develop my theology.

And in Scripture, it never says that Mary agreed to bear Jesus Christ. She submitted to it. Gabriel did not come ask her, "Will you be with child?" He told her, "You will be with child." (Luke 1:31)

God was not counting upon Mary to bear his Son for him. He chose her for that role.

You don't believe in free will. Mary had no choice?

[Extra Stout]

I didn't really get that quote either- but to clarify Howard is not a Bishop- those quotes are from someone who works in his office.

I do understand, though, the discussion about Protestant churches using youth groups to "lure" Catholic youth away- again just my personal experience in the Bible Belt.

You have an interesting perspective on "luring" in this case. When Catholics of their own volition choose to attend a Protestant youth group because they find it attractive, that is "luring."

Are they supposed to make sure that no Catholic would ever be attracted to their church? Perhaps engage in some ritual Catholic-bashing at the start to run them off? Would you have the Protestant churches report Catholic attendees to the local parish for discipline?

[ploto]

You have an interesting perspective on "luring" in this case. When Catholics of their own volition choose to attend a Protestant youth group because they find it attractive, that is "luring."

Again my personal experience- with SBC youth intentionally going after Catholic youth to get them to attend their supposed social gatherings under the promise of enjoyment when they are really after converting the Catholic youth to join their church. It is the motives with which I have a problem. I have just seen it happen too much not to be bothered by it.

[Phenomanul]

Personally, I don't think it is my place to judge anyone's eternal destination- that is why I don't like it when people do that to me. God knows people's hearts- in the end, that is all I think that matters.

OK you and I don't -- as it should be. Your Ins ution however, claims to have authority on such matters. That is what is causing dissenting opinion

I respect and appreciate all who seek to find a way toward living their beliefs and if it works for them, I don't really see a problem. If asking Mary to pray for me, especially as a mother dealing with issues a mother deals with, helps me to be a better Christian parent, then why does anyone have a problem with that? It in no way, shape, or form takes away from the praying I do to God about the exact same things. Just like asking for guidance from someone I respect and bouncing my thoughts off of that person can help me to deepen my understanding- that does not take away from my experience of God's word in the Scriptures.

You want to do it all alone- ask no one to pray for you and seek the guidance of no one- that is our choice and if it is working for you- then only you know that. But what I do works for me- deepens my faith year after year and for ANYONE ELSE to presume that they can decide how God views my faith is sanctimonious.

I don't believe anyone in here ever presumed that. That others disagree with the tenets of the RCC... does not mean that they are inferring or ascribing anything to your own status with GOD.

So, thanks for asking, but no, I don't need to go to your Church to get saved. I am fine where I am. I try to understand the zeal some feel for sharing their faith, but again I say, go convert those with no belief and leave me alone in my belief.

Again, no one in here has tried to 'convert' you.

[Samurai Jane]

Personally, I don't think it is my place to judge anyone's eternal destination- that is why I don't like it when people do that to me. God knows people's hearts- in the end, that is all I think that matters.

I respect and appreciate all who seek to find a way toward living their beliefs and if it works for them, I don't really see a problem. If asking Mary to pray for me, especially as a mother dealing with issues a mother deals with, helps me to be a better Christian parent, then why does anyone have a problem with that? It in no way, shape, or form takes away from the praying I do to God about the exact same things. Just like asking for guidance from someone I respect and bouncing my thoughts off of that person can help me to deepen my understanding- that does not take away from my experience of God's word in the Scriptures.

You want to do it all alone- ask no one to pray for you and seek the guidance of no one- that is our choice and if it is working for you- then only you know that. But what I do works for me- deepens my faith year after year and for ANYONE ELSE to presume that they can decide how God views my faith is sanctimonious.

So, thanks for asking, but no, I don't need to go to your Church to get saved. I am fine where I am. I try to understand the zeal some feel for sharing their faith, but again I say, go convert those with no belief and leave me alone in my belief.

I can agree with those statements. I don't try and do it alone, myself. I ask prayer warriors to pray for me and my family or whatever and I go to church for teaching and worship on a regular basis. As I said, I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I was just wondering how you feel about the RCC's condemnation of Protestants when it appears that you don't feel the same.

[Samurai Jane]

Again my personal experience- with SBC youth intentionally going after Catholic youth to get them to attend their supposed social gatherings under the promise of enjoyment when they are really after converting the Catholic youth to join their church. It is the motives with which I have a problem. I have just seen it happen too much not to be bothered by it.

I'm just curious, how did they do this? Did they go around asking everyone if their Catholic or something? How were you made aware of their motives?

[Extra Stout]

You don't believe in free will. Mary had no choice?

The free will of mankind is powerless to thwart the will of God. He alone is sovereign.

If you read Romans 9 and 10 back-to-back, it can be rather confusing, since Paul on the one hand advocates for the absolute sovereignty of God, then immediately talks about the free will of man.

The two exist in tension. The best understanding I have is that this tension emerges because of our limited human perspective juxtaposed against the unbounded perspective of God.

A similar tension exists when Paul talks on the one hand about our being presdestined for salvation and already being seated in the heavens, and then on the other hand instructs us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

[Extra Stout]

I was just wondering how you feel about the RCC's condemnation of Protestants when it appears that you don't feel the same.

The official position of the RCC is that Protestants have a flawed and incomplete fellowship with God on account of doctrinal error, not that Protestants are lost.

[Samurai Jane]

The official position of the RCC is that Protestants have a flawed and incomplete fellowship with God on account of doctrinal error, not that Protestants are lost.

I see.. thanks for the clarification.

[ploto]

I'm just curious, how did they do this? Did they go around asking everyone if their Catholic or something? How were you made aware of their motives?

They know who attends a Catholic Church and that is who they invite-- not the people who attend no Church.

When you are friends with the son of a Southern Baptist Evangelist you learn a lot. He finally said when he was about 30 years old, that people could go to Heaven who were Catholic- but before that he sincerely believed that he HAD to save the Catholics. For some reason, we were the most lost people. Well, us, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but there just weren't many of them around.

[Phenomanul]

The official position of the RCC is that Protestants have a flawed and incomplete fellowship with God on account of doctrinal error, not that Protestants are lost.

They still however maintain that access to GOD goes exclusively through the doctrines set forth by the RCC. It's a dichotic argument.

[leemajors]

The RCC contends that only through her humanity can attain salvation.

i still don't know where you are getting this. i went to Catholic Mass all my life and there was not the slightest evidence, sermon or suggestion of that claim. there is a special feast day for Mary, the Hail Mary is a prayer often recited, but there has been nothing to suggest what you claim. i realize you have found quotes online supporting it, but as a member of the Catholic Church i can assure you it's not the case. praying to Mary for intercession and saying only through her humanity can be saved are different matters entirely. it's not a pillar of Catholic dogma and doctrine that Mary is the only salvation, as many of us here can attest to.

[Phenomanul]

i still don't know where you are getting this. i went to Catholic Mass all my life and there was not the slightest evidence, sermon or suggestion of that claim. there is a special feast day for Mary, the Hail Mary is a prayer often recited, but there has been nothing to suggest what you claim. i realize you have found quotes online supporting it, but as a member of the Catholic Church i can assure you it's not the case. praying to Mary for intercession and saying only through her humanity can be saved are different matters entirely. it's not a pillar of Catholic dogma and doctrine that Mary is the only salvation, as many of us here can attest to.

The reference to "her" being the Roman Catholic Church... not Mary.

[Samurai Jane]

They know who attends a Catholic Church and that is who they invite-- not the people who attend no Church.

When you are friends with the son of a Southern Baptist Evangelist you learn a lot. He finally said when he was about 30 years old, that people could go to Heaven who were Catholic- but before that he sincerely believed that he HAD to save the Catholics. For some reason, we were the most lost people. Well, us, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but there just weren't many of them around.

Interesting. I've never seen that perpetrated at my church and I was just wondering. Of course, we're not Southern Baptist, so that may be a different story all together. My husband grew up in a Southern Baptist church and has never expressed a need or desire to convert Catholics or whatever.

[Crookshanks]

If asking Mary to pray for me, especially as a mother dealing with issues a mother deals with, helps me to be a better Christian parent, then why does anyone have a problem with that?

If praying to Mary makes you feel better, then so be it. However, it won't do you any good as only God alone hears and answers our prayers. We don't pray to the apostles or to saints - only God.

Knowing how humble Mary was, I think she would be dismayed that people pray to her, especially since she has no power to hear those prayer, much less answer them.

Same thing with lighting candles - I see so many people buying all different candles to protect them and other such nonsense. Lighting a candle does nothing but add a little light and scent to the room!

[Samurai Jane]

They still however maintain that access to GOD goes exclusively through the doctrines set forth by the RCC. It's a dichotic argument.

Somebody tell me: Is confession a requirement to get into heaven? Who goes to purgatory? What exactly must you do to get into heaven, according to RCC?

[Samurai Jane]

If praying to Mary makes you feel better, then so be it. However, it won't do you any good as only God alone hears and answers our prayers. We don't pray to the apostles or to saints - only God.

Knowing how humble Mary was, I think she would be dismayed that people pray to her, especially since she has no power to hear those prayer, much less answer them.

Same thing with lighting candles - I see so many people buying all different candles to protect them and other such nonsense. Lighting a candle does nothing but add a little light and scent to the room!

We went to San Juan in August and I was amazed at all the candles there. They had a seperate candle room and everything. I thought it was bizarre and beautiful at the same time. (They also had a little store where you could buy all these candles.)

[ploto]

If praying to Mary makes you feel better, then so be it. However, it won't do you any good as only God alone hears and answers our prayers. We don't pray to the apostles or to saints - only God.

Did you bother to READ what I wrote. I said I ask Mary to pray for me- not that I pray to Mary.

Why did I even try??

[Crookshanks]

Did you bother to READ what I wrote. I said I ask Mary to pray for me- not that I pray to Mary.

Why did I even try??

Doesn't matter which way - it still does no good because Mary doesn't hear you! Also, where in the bible do you find that people in Heaven can or do pray for those of us here on earth?

[ploto]

Go back a few pages. Been there done that.

I'm tired of going around and around on the same things.

I'll believe what I want and just quit inviting me to your church. I am quite happy at mine- 3 or 4 times a week.

[Phenomanul]

Go back a few pages. Been there done that.

I'm tired of going around and around on the same things.

I'll believe what I want and just quit inviting me to your church. I am quite happy at mine- 3 or 4 times a week.

With all due respect are you imagining these solicitations?

We are having a theological discussion concerning perspectives on doctrines not a "you need to come to my church, your church don't know" type of argument.

[johnsmith]

If praying to Mary makes you feel better, then so be it. However, it won't do you any good as only God alone hears and answers our prayers. We don't pray to the apostles or to saints - only God.

Knowing how humble Mary was, I think she would be dismayed that people pray to her, especially since she has no power to hear those prayer, much less answer them.

Same thing with lighting candles - I see so many people buying all different candles to protect them and other such nonsense. Lighting a candle does nothing but add a little light and scent to the room!

I love when religious philosophies become FACTS from people arguing these things.

[Extra Stout]

They know who attends a Catholic Church and that is who they invite-- not the people who attend no Church.

When you are friends with the son of a Southern Baptist Evangelist you learn a lot. He finally said when he was about 30 years old, that people could go to Heaven who were Catholic- but before that he sincerely believed that he HAD to save the Catholics. For some reason, we were the most lost people.

I had some experiences with fundie Southern Baptists in Louisiana along those lines. They would rail up and down about the priests and bishops had a special place in waiting for them because of their false teaching and how they had to save those poor parishoners from .

I also have experience in Texas with a bunch of Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, A/G's, and non-denominational folks arm in arm singing together and eating together.

The latter one is better.

[travis2]

Somebody tell me: Is confession a requirement to get into heaven? Who goes to purgatory? What exactly must you do to get into heaven, according to RCC?

Confession is strictly only required for mortal (grave) sin. However, it is recommended at least once per year.

If you die without serious sin but still with the effects of venial sin on your soul, you still can't enter Heaven, because nothing unclean shall enter. However, there is a place to get "cleaned up".

Purgatory is less a "place" than a "state of being". It's not an alternative to , and it's not a second judgement. I like to compare it to a trucker's rest stop on the way to Heaven...there's one way in, one way out...there are showers and a store to buy some clothing items...but no sleeping space. No one lives or stays there.

If you go to Purgatory...you are saved. It's just a waypoint.

What is required in the eyes of the Church? Baptism. Jesus said so. Also, no serious sin unconfessed. That's about it...