It's time to face up to the truth. We aren't close to being the best team in the West.
Go to the NBA.com site and run comparisons man-for-man and you'll see that the problems start with players that play the majority of the minutes. Forget about 'intangibles' like playing on Championship teams and all the rest.
Bottom Line: If you were an opposing GM would you trade for our starting five (Duncan, Oberto, Bowen, Parker, Ginobili) even up?
Phoenix: Amare, Marion, Diaw, Raja Bell, Nash.
Their front line kills us and the Manu/Bell matchup is no better than a push with Nash >Parker. Barbosa is better 6th man than anyone on our bench. Phoenix > Spurs so GM would not trade his for ours.
Dallas: Dampier, Howard, Dirk, Terry, Harris.
Front line superiority again gives the nod to the Mavs although we have a slight statistical edge at Guard. Bench is much deeper than Spurs.
Dallas > Spurs so GM would not trade his for ours.
LALakers and Utah both have starting fives with some problems (Bynum is a rookie for example) but they probably equal ours or might even be slightly better by the end of the season. Even so, given our obvious limitations (age, one-dimensional SF, bad C) especially on the front line, I doubt they'd trade us even up.
Although mediocre talent and inconsistency from the bench digs us deeper into mediocrity, the problem with the Spurs starts at the linup that plays most of the game minutes, not the bench.
In what universe?
The Spurs have always had less talent than most teams on their way to championships. They've won series where their second best player wouldn't start on the opposing team.
The Spurs have always relied on teamwork and defense to win. That's what is not there this year so far.
Enough with these ing topic already, Jesus.
Actually, their head to head stats are pretty close and Raja may be better on individual defense. But I said, let's not quibble about intangibles or past history.
Whether you can win in today's game with what worked in the past is yet to be proved. Losing generals always build their armies to fight the last war while their enemies build to fight the war they can win in the present.
So the question remains. You are the Phoenix or Dallas or Lakers or Utah GM?
Would you trade yours for ours? Seems like an easy question to answer.
#3 in the Western Conference? How about #3 by a large margin in Texas? I saw this coming with the small ball off season moves so fortunately I traded my League Pass for Full Court this season so I can watch a team which isn't embarassed by its big men- the Florida Gators. Tim is playing much better than his injury plagued last season but with his low budget big man help the Spurs are getting beat up on the boards and inside so now the team has gone from the Twin Towers (Tim and the Admiral, two championships, Tim and Rasho-Nazr, one championship) to the Tin Tower (Tim and the four dwarfs, first previewed in the Laker playoff sweep of 2001).
Talking starting fives only, I like the Spurs' starters in the playoffs.
Dallas
Parker > Terry
Manu > Harris
Bowen < Howard
Tim > Dirk
Elson < Dampier
That's three out of five in the Spurs' favor. And the difference between Dampier and any other other starting center in the league isn't that much.
Phoenix
Parker < Nash
Manu > Bell
Bowen < Diaw
Duncan > Marion
Elson < Stoudemire
This one is 3-2 in favor of the Suns, but then again Duncan is by far the best player of the ten. Parker has a history of defender Nash as well as anyone in the league. Manu always destroys the Suns. Bowen always shuts down Marion. And Stoudemire isn't the same player he was two years ago. I'd take the Spurs' starting five any day of the week.
Where the Spurs have trouble matching up with these teams is off the bench. Both have much more firepower off the bench and that could be the difference. The Spurs' bench is old and slow ... however, if the Spurs get big time performances out of a couple bench players (Finley, Horry, Barry or Bonner), then that'd put them right in the mix.
Bottomline is the Spurs' big three is better than any three another team could put on the court. If the Spurs can get inspired player from a role player (like Jaren Jackson in '99, Stephen Jackson and Malik Rose in '03 and Robert Horry in '05), the Spurs will be tough to eliminate.
I'm not sure I understand this thread: "Man for Man we're #3 at best"....um we do have the third best record in the league to say this, so what exactly is the argument?
If you're comparing our starting 5 vs the starting 5 of other top contenders, that's hard to do. Firstly, because this is still the regular season and you are comparing our players who have vast championship experience to players who've barely played in 1 NBA Finals. You can argue that Dirk is playing better than Duncan right now or that Terry is playing better than Parker right now, but if you look at the Dallas series last year, both players took their games up a notch in that series.
No one is doubting that the Spurs are far behind these teams in terms of having the intangibles and holes in their lineup. But, you are far behind in your analysis if you seriously think that the reason we suck is because of Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili. When 3 of your top bench players are shooting 36% and you have no backup PG and no Center, you're going to lose games.
You my friend are a re . Ducan greater than Dirk? HAHAHA not really pretty much a wash. Parker and Terry are a wash as well.
The Mavs bench >>>>>>>>> Spurs and that's all that matters
Duncan and Dirk a wash? Get back to me when Dirk leads his team to a championship and wins 2 MVP's and 3 Finals MVP's. Better yet, get back to me when Dirk plays defense like Duncan in the paint. Typical Mavs fan who doesn't realize that the game is played at both ends of the floor.
Where is your MVP as your team is sucking ass now? Mr. clutch from the FT line too huh lol. Duncan is better on D and in the post but Dirk creates just as much a matchup problem and can actually shoot 3's and FT's.
Despite what you homers think it's a wash....wouldn't be surprised if more GMs/coaches would take Dirk over Duncan right now. No one gives a about what he did in the past my friend.....
Dirk and Duncan a wash? Let's look at last years stats...
2006 Conference Semi-Finals...
Duncan: 32.3 ppg, 11.7 rebs
Dirk: 27.1 ppg, 13.3 rebs
While Dirk averaged 1.5 more rebounds (mainly because of small ball), Tim Duncan average over 5 more points per game. That's a pretty big difference. Tim Duncan is still > Dirk.
AHAHAHAHAHAH re logic...Ducan gets the ball more. I know the truth hurts but Dirk is on the same level as Duncan if not better
I'm not dissing our Big Three. They deserve every bit of credit for keeping us in the games we win or lose. But the game is played by five players on the floor.
Everyone agrees that C is a problem, but despite everyone's agreement over the years that SF is a problem, Bowen is such an 'untouchable' that no one will admit the truth--he's a one dimensional player who doesn't match up well when we play against teams with good players at that position.
It's like we're playing 3 on 5 against the top teams. Forget the so-called 'intangibles' and terrible bench. Our best five aren't as good as their best five.
Any thoughts that this team is likely to play 'over its head' and make its way into the Finals is whistling past the graveyard. It could happen, but we'd have to be very lucky.
Uh, he's here putting up the type of numbers he always does. He's probably the reason we haven't lost more games as of late.
[Sigh] If only the NBA played three-on-three!
Read that other part you quoted where I said I also like the Spurs' starters compared to anyone's.
Yes...Duncan gets the ball more because he is better. Dumbass.AHAHAHAHAHAH re logic...Ducan gets the ball more. I know the truth hurts but Dirk is on the same level as Duncan if not better
Wrong again genius...his TEAM is not as good. Thus he needs to get the ball more for the Spurs to have a chance. Dirk on the other hand defers to his teammates who are young and can actually contribute.
Why is everyone starting new threads such as this acting like they're bringing down stone tablets from the mountain?
yeah duncan is the most selfish player in the league, he's always looking to get his and never defers to his teammates. maybe you should make up your mind as to which team you bandwagon before you go off spouting nonsense.Wrong again genius...his TEAM is not as good. Thus he needs to get the ball more for the Spurs to have a chance. Dirk on the other hand defers to his teammates who are young and can actually contribute.
Thou shalt not read other threads before posting one of your own about the same thing.
I agree.
Even if another team is better...
As we know--the games still have to be played--and the team with superior stats don't always win.
AT this point--I'd say we still beat the Suns in a seven game series, but barring injury, the Mavs are the best in the West and we'd have to have a really tremendous effort (and a few breaks along the way) to get past the Mavs.
But --that could change.
I'm not as despondent as I was a couple of days ago.
How many championships or MVPs Duncan has has absolutely nothing to do with who is a better player right now. Dirk is having a much, much better season and right now is a much better player. Period.
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