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  1. #26
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    On the subject of vocational training,

    Some of you may think it is acceptable for half of hispanics in this state to not complete high school, I do not. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

    Are you telling me that you find it perfectly accetable for one half of hispanics to fill nothing more than "cooks, janitors, and low wage jobs"? This is a problem any way you look at it

    I have no problem with an educationaly system that is voluntary and allows people to better plan for life and get job specific training as early as the high school level. But you also need to realize that traditional vocational programs have little use in our society. A good 3/4ths of all the positions in today's working world (I am using loose numbers, but the figures are around 70%) require the use of computers and other highy advanced equipment.

    We don't live in the same economy that allows familys to live off the single income of steel mill worker, and those jobs are steadily declining due to globalization.

    Globalization has the impact of removing low wage jobs from this country and exporting them to countries where there is cheaper labor to be found. In order to keep pace, we must provide a workforce that is educated on a much higher level. We are failing to do that and it is going to seriously hurt the average American in the long run.

    The government can keep touting rising GDP while corporations based in America, but unless we do something in order to help our work force stay ahead of the curve, we are in for a suprise. You need look no further than the influx of highly educated Indians at all of the major corporations here in town. I have no problem with them making the best of their opportunities, but I would like for our society to be equiped to compete.

    For instance, San Antonio has long been a customer service/call center hub. There are many jobs in that market here that appeal to people without a college degree because they are able to make a decent wage while having only a high school diploma.

    Those jobs are being exported to call centers in India where the workers are making less,and have one if not two college degrees involving the subject matter.

    A vocational system is fine, but the reailty is that in order to compete in the job market we have here, this vocational system is going to have to consist of training that is at a collegiate level.
    why does everything have to be a race issue?

  2. #27
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    When peole aren't seperated economicly and socialy race will cease to be an issue.

  3. #28
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    When peole aren't seperated economicly and socialy race will cease to be an issue.
    when people stop trying to use race as their excuse for poverty they will bridge the economic and social gap.

  4. #29
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    It's not an excuse. The problem is that you can't grasp the concept I'm presenting to you.

    You can't grasp that regardless of the reason, a dispraportionate number of minorities is being affected in a negative manner.

    Why is that Clan, do you have an answer that is well thought out, or are you simply going to say that it all starts in the home?

    And if it all does start in the home, why are minorities coming from homes where they aren't being set up for success? Why?

    You seem to take this discussion and morph it into a "I'm poor because I'm mexican" thing, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is far more likely for a minority to fall into these social pitfalls than a non minority, and I have the numbers to back it up.

    So, are you able to provide a reason?

  5. #30
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    When peole aren't seperated economicly and socialy race will cease to be an issue.
    Then race will never cease to be an issue. People have been separated economically and socially since the beginning of time.
    The have's (who had fire) were envied by those who didn't.
    The have's (who had weapons) dominated those who didn't.
    The have's (Eve) tempted the one didn't (Adam).

    It is a never ending cycle.

    God knows I'd love to live in a perfect world where "money" isn't the measure of one's social status.

    Kumbayah may happen....at the end of time.

  6. #31
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    It's not an excuse. The problem is that you can't grasp the concept I'm presenting to you.

    You can't grasp that regardless of the reason, a dispraportionate number of minorities is being affected in a negative manner.

    Why is that Clan, do you have an answer that is well thought out, or are you simply going to say that it all starts in the home?

    And if it all does start in the home, why are minorities coming from homes where they aren't being set up for success? Why?

    You seem to take this discussion and morph it into a "I'm poor because I'm mexican" thing, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is far more likely for a minority to fall into these social pitfalls than a non minority, and I have the numbers to back it up.

    So, are you able to provide a reason?
    there are many successful minorities... that means it can be done... no excuses... i was raised by a single mother...3 siblings.. by the time i was 22 i was making 6 figures...i have my own house, car, dog, motorcycle, etc... if i can do it, so can anyone else... stop making excuses and do something with your life...(not directed towards you, but to the have nots)

  7. #32
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    You're still not getting it. I never said that being a minority means you can't succeed. There are numersous cases of minoirties being more than successfull and there are numerous cases where non minorities fail to succeed. You can't diagnose and solve sociatal trends and problems by looking at a select few individuals.


    So once again, why is there a dispraportionate numbe of minioritis being effected by social problems?

  8. #33
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    You're still not getting it. I never said that being a minority means you can't succeed. There are numersous cases of minoirties being more than successfull and there are numerous cases where non minorities fail to succeed. You can't diagnose and solve sociatal trends and problems by looking at a select few individuals.


    So once again, why is there a dispraportionate numbe of minioritis being effected by social problems?
    they choose to...

    nobody is going to get you out of poverty to be nice.. you have to get yourself out regardless of your cir stances... if you choose not to, then it is your choice

  9. #34
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I also don't measure success by the number of digits in your income.

    As Mother Teresa said..
    "When you leave this earth you will not be judged by they wage you earn, the homes you have, the cars you own but rather....
    I was hungry, and you gave me to eat.
    I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink.
    I was naked, and you clothed me.
    I was homeless, and you took me in."

    I know it all sounds foolish but that is what I believe.

  10. #35
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    So you're telling me that minorities are more likely than non minorities to "choose to" be part of social problems?

    Ok, then the next logical question is why are minorities more likely to choose to be part of social problems?

  11. #36
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Not everyone "chooses" to be poor.

  12. #37
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    So you're telling me that minorities are more likely than non minorities to "choose to" be part of social problems?

    Ok, then the next logical question is why are minorities more likely to choose to be part of social problems?
    one part is probably because they choose to have 50 kids when they truthfully can't afford 1..

  13. #38
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I don't want "one part", I want a complete answer and I want numbers and studies to back up what you have to say.

  14. #39
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    I don't want "one part", I want a complete answer and I want numbers and studies to back up what you have to say.
    are you writing a research paper or what? how do you not know that minorities have more kids than non-whites??? it is like this in every country. even europeans have less kids..that is why many countries are experiencing negative population growth patterns...

  15. #40
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I feel ignored.

  16. #41
    Seek True Love, within. bigzak25's Avatar
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    sup joe!

  17. #42
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    what do you want someone to pay attention to you about?

  18. #43
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I think the answer is within each person.
    Some will not take "no" for an answer while others allow "no" to be their answer.

  19. #44
    Seeking the quiet mind desflood's Avatar
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    Going back to the original le of the thread, I've found news articles from multiple states which indicate sharp rises in dropout rates after the implementation of tough standardized testing.

  20. #45
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    Going back to the original le of the thread, I've found news articles from multiple states which indicate sharp rises in dropout rates after the implementation of tough standardized testing.
    well, if you are afraid of a standarized test, you should drop out... you have no place in academics... only re s can't pass standardized tests...

  21. #46
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    well, if you are afraid of a standarized test, you should drop out... you have no place in academics... only re s can't pass standardized tests...
    I have a friend who is incredibly smart, has two degrees, and can talk about almost every subject under the sun, who failed the math part of the TASP three times. She had to pass it to sign up for classes in her last semester and she got a study book. She called me up at 11 the night before the test and I stayed at her place until 5 teaching her the test. She ended up getting 92% percentile. What I am trying to say is that re s arent the only ones who cant pass those tests.

  22. #47
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    are you writing a research paper or what? how do you not know that minorities have more kids than non-whites??? it is like this in every country. even europeans have less kids..that is why many countries are experiencing negative population growth patterns...
    No, I'm trying to get you to actually do a bit of thinking. Provide some figures that show that minorities have higher family size. It's not that hard.

    Also, is the larger family size the cause or a symptom of the problem? Is it a by product of living in poverty or is it the a leading contributer to poverty? And is our lack of a good sex edcuation system in the public education system not a contributor to the larger family sizes?

    I don't agree that family size is a leading cause of disparity like this. It may be a contributor, but it may also be a symptom at the same time.

    I would argue that your reasoning for declining population values are not as simple as you'd like to make them out to be also.

    You seem so afraid and so unwilling to look at this issue from a different perspective.

  23. #48
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    well, if you are afraid of a standarized test, you should drop out... you have no place in academics... only re s can't pass standardized tests...
    Really? What if the reason they can't pass the test is an inadequete education system?

  24. #49
    Seeking the quiet mind desflood's Avatar
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    What makes you think there's something wrong with the sex education in the public school system?

  25. #50
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    What makes you think there's something wrong with the sex education in the public school system?


    Oh, nothing! It's just daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaandy.

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