Stop acting like a dumbass.
Calling people "clueless" or "a ponce" because they disagree with you is so arrogant.
I should have watched way more games fom Scola in europe than you and I don't think that he will be a good nba player. I don't think too Butler is a good nba prospect. And I've said both things before the trade.
Maybe you're right and this trade will be horrible for Spurs in a year but maybe you're wrong too.
You should respect people's opinion instead of insulting them when they haven't the same than yours.
Riley was the last, or maybe it was Phil Jackson, I can't remember if he got the Bulls to the Finals in his first year, might have been his second...but now that I think about it, I think Adelman has taken the team to a finals in his first year as coach before...going through SA to do it. I believe 88-89 was Adelman's first year as a head coach. and he got the Blazers to the finals...he might have come on at the end of 88 though.
AJ almost did it...
The ponces I was describing were those who were operating the same tiresome alchemy of trashing a player once he falls out of the Spurs' grasp and lionizing those who come in. Scola is the worst player ever and will be deadweight on Houston, Udoka is the best defender in the league since Bowen.
I realize you don't like Scola. That's fine. It's clear he'll be much better than what they had on the roster before the trade. But thanks for the schoolmarming. I revel in being chided for calling ponces ponces.
Edit: Larry Brown got the Pistons to the Finals his first year.
Edit: Part Deux...and Phil Jackson got the Lakers to the Finals his first year with them as well.
Both of these guys won the finals too.
Don't forget that Rockets have had to spend their MLE on Scola. You had to compare him with MLE PF available (like Joe Smith, Mikki Moore) and not with PFs on Houton roster before the trade.
It's not clear for me that Scola will be better than other PF available with the MLE.
You don't think Scola will be better next year than Joe Smith? Mikki Moore? Good God. He's better than both of them sitting on each other's shoulders, much less either by himself.
And good lord, the Rox aren't spending the MLE on Scola. It's not close to the full MLE. Try again.
I don't think Scola will be better than Joe Smith next year.
Scola could maybe be better than Joe Smith after next year but i'm not sold at all on that.
How many games with Scola have you seen these last 2 years ?
Are you speaking from your ass again ?
Try again.
Scola will cost them more money than just his contract. Add Butler's salary, the $500K given to Tau, the $350k they won't get back from Spanoulis and the cash given in the trade.
3 years of Scola will cost them between $12.5M and $15.5M.
Joe Smith has signed a $10M/2 years contract.
The next game Joe Smith has had any impact on will be his first.
More than you've apparently watched Joe Smith, you monkey-rapist.How many games with Scola have you seen these last 2 years ?
Are you speaking from your ass again ?
Ah, brainless one, you said Scola will cost them the MLE. No. His contract is 3 yrs. for $9.3M. Why are you lying?Try again.
Scola will cost them more money than just his contract. Add Butler's salary, the $500K given to Tau, the $350k they won't get back from Spanoulis and the cash given in the trade.
3 years of Scola will cost them between $12.5M and $15.5M.
Joe Smith has signed a $10M/2 years contract.
The buyout does not apply to the contract figure. The bull statistic of Spanoulis's contract is, well, it's just stupid to even include here.
If you want to go on this "Joe Smith is better than Luis Scola" children's crusade, then go march off in your jammies by yourself. If you want to add this bizarre curlique that somehow Smith is making less money than Scola and is therefore a better deal... well, my friend, it doesn't say much for the math skills of whatever foul little burgh bore you: 9.3<10. And especially 9.3/3<<<10/2.
You're full of up to your ears on this one. Just submit, you're looking completely foolish.
So I was right.
Mr. Body is again talking from his ass and insult people who disagree with him about a player he doesn't know.
No, RIF.
Have I said that his contract won't be $9.3M/3 years ?
I've just said that he will cost them more than his contract.
Scola won't cost $9.3M to Rockets, try again.
When Mr. Body is owned, he start insulting people.
RE: Adelman and the Rockets and the threat they present:
Adelman:
Adelman is a good coach. IMO, he's better than Van Gundy as an x and o coach(who is sickeningly over-rated on the basis of the 99 Knicks), and if he hadn't landed with Houston, I would have wanted him to replace PJ on the bench if he would have gone for it. For his offensive IQ and mastery of the Princeton offense. Our offense would have kicked ass....and Pop would have been a buffer from the major flaws of Adelman as a coach(which I'll get to later) impacting our team.
He's a great offensive coach, but he can coach his teams to do anything...including play D. Extremely versatile. Half court, up tempo...he can adjust his teams immediately to do any of these things way better than you would expect, doing it featuring guards or bigs.
He's very good at being dealt a bad hand, like injuries, and turning that into an advantage...I've seen him do that a lot in his career and the dude deserves credit for it...his Blazer teams, his King teams would get injured, and he'd somehow get them to play even better with a short hand.
You know how Pop says it's sometimes tougher to play teams missing a key player because you don't know what to expect? I'd say that Adelman was the guy that taught Pop that lesson more than any other NBA coach.
He did it to Pop as an assistant on the 89 Spurs when Duckworth was injured...and he was notorious for doing it to us when Webber and Vlade were down for the Kings.
Other positives:
He's been very good with a variety of different types of Superstar players.
His Kings teams were built primarily around the creating and passing of skilled offensive bigmen and lights out jump shooting by his guards, while his Blazer teams were built primarily around the creating of Drexler and Porter and relied more on inside toughness and high high high PCT shooting from their bigs, like Buck Williams. The creator and shooter roles were completely reversed between his Blazer and Kings teams....pretty neat trick actually.
But his preference is the Princeton offense ran through a bigman...and contrary to what many people on the board think, because of the last time we played the Kings in the playoffs....he does want to run, all the time.
His teams tend to be excellent offensive teams, half court, uptempo, and unlike the Suns, he eventually turns them into pretty under-rated defensive teams...they don't play D like the Spurs...it's a different type of D...have all his guys swipe down at the ball going for steals, and they don't do it for the entire game, usually late in the game...it works pretty good for him once he gets his guys to buy into it, which is usually after a couple of playoff loses. IMO, some of his Blazer teams were actually better defensive teams than they were offensive teams...and the 2002 Kings were only behind the Spurs in opp FG% I believe....deceptively good on D.
Anyway...you saw what happened to the Kings this year...they came apart at the seams when he left. And you saw how his soft Kings suddenly turned into a physical halfcourt beast against us in 06 instantly built around the physicality of his big 2 guards in Artest and Bonzi(contract year didn't hurt Bonzi's motivation either) He can do that...he's very good at it....he'll find a way to exploit weaknesses on opposing teams if he has the players to do it...even if he has to change his style to do it.
And as mentioned earlier, a lot of his Kings teams actually got better the more injured they got. They year they won 61 games or whatever, the best player Webber, was injured for 30 something games that year...they always seemed to play better without Webber now that I think about it. Maybe that was just because he's Webber.
But he does have his faults...
#1. He's not an automatic playoff berth, as his 2 year stint with Golden State proved. During his successful stints in Portland and Sacremento...at times he had arguably the most talented and deepest teams in the league...filty rich with talent. The 2002 Kings probably were the most talented and deepest team in the NBA. That's part of the reason he was able to be so effective with players out due to injury...
#2. He's a players coach, but he overdoes it. His players tend to become soft primadonna distractions the longer he's with them...and his teams usually end up broken to pieces by the time he is done blowing up their egos. He's a lot like Mike Dunleavy like this....not a disciplinarian at all. And his teams always seem to end up with chemistry issues and fights about who the star is etc.
His players tend to love him because he never admonishes them and let's them get away with murder, and always blames the refs for their shortcomings...I don't think I've heard Adelman say we played bad and our opponents deserved to win. after losing in the playoffs...it's always, we didn't get the calls. Always...even Phil Jackson and George Karl stop doing it after the series is over...Adelman doesn't. I mean he says the right words...but he also says enough to let you know that he doesn't really accept responsibility for the loss.
He's going to make Mike D'antoni's whining seem tame. By the end of his Rockets tenure...he'll have turned TMac, Yao, every other Rocket Player, all their execs and half their fans...into ref whiners.
I mean Brad Miller was actually a pretty hard nosed player once upon a time...undrafted guy that busted ass to get to the NBA and wasn't afriad to get physical with anyone..including Shaq, in fact he seemed to enjoy it.
Adelman literally turned Brad Miller into the biggest pussy ever to step foot onto an NBA court...and he did it while making Miller's offensive numbers shoot through the roof..
I'd take Pre King Brad Miller with lesser numbers over the soft non d pouty passing wiz that emerged on the Kings.
Now some of it is that Adelman has had choking stars to begin with...Drexler, Webber...but a lot of it is him...he's turned Bibby, Miller, all those guys into pussies. I think he's probably responsible to this day for Cliff Robinson being a choker...and I don't think poor Terry Porter was able to overcome the choke instilled in him by Adelman. And yeah...he didn't help Hedo much either.
So even if you can't blame him for the choking pedigree of Webber and the Pre Rocket Drexler...he damn sure wasn't the cure for it either. And there is some evidence he makes it worse.
He's also not any better at developing young guys than Pop or Phil Jackson...he's developed a couple, but so have Pop and Phil Jackson.
#3. And this is the biggest issue with him...his teams are always mentally weak and this stems from him...this guy is the biggest whiner, the biggest excuse maker, the biggest ref blamer...to ever suit up as a coach in an NBA game. He constantly whines, his players follow his lead and whine, and IMO, he encourages them to whine along with him...he's always done this on every team he has been on...and the end result is that his teams never truly believe their destiny is in their own hands....and that's a huge mental disadvantage...a huge mental weakness that seems to be a trait on every team he coaches.
"But, but, he got the Blazers to the Finals and turned the Kings into the team that nearly dethroned the Lakers" you say?
On the surface it may seem that way...but the 88-89 Spurs were babies, and the only reason they didn't win that series, against a much more talented and experienced team...is because of the infamous no look pass.
2002 Kings?
Well #1, they were probably most talented team in the NBA and they choked.
#2...
And this has always been an issue with me...
The Spurs beat the crap out of the Lakers in the playoffs in 2002...they beat the out of them...it was only a 5 game series that we lost...but it was a brutally physical series that punished the Lakers and it took a physical toll on them, that was not apparent until the Kings series. They were tired by that King series. Bruce beat the crap out of Kobe in that series...and the Spurs bigmen beat the out of Shaq as well. IMO. That was Malik's finest hour as a Spur IMO.
The Lakers were actually closer to losing that 5 game series against the Spurs than they were the 7 gamer against the Kings...they weren't down by double digits entering the 4th in every game against the Kings like they were us. IF Smitty or Porter(a hard nosed player taught how to choke by Adelman) had been able to buy a ing open shot off the Duncan triple teams...we'd have won that series, and we'd have won it convincingly. God that series was a miserable one.
And no one gave the Spurs credit for completely physically dominating the Lakers in that series without a healthy Drob...but they did. Through the first 3 quarters of every game of that series...the Spurs were dominating the Lakers more than they did in any other series of the Shaq Kobe era.
The 2002 Spurs IIRC, had a double digit lead against the Lakers in every game that series entering the 4th quarter, and Phil would simply triple team Duncan and let Smitty and Porter, and to a lesser extent Ferry and AD, choke us out of the game. That series was so close IMO, that Steve Kerr could have swung it to a win without even hitting a shot, just by keeping that third defender off of Duncan. And that was probably why we brought Kerr back the following season, and said goodbye to Porter without really missing him. Might have been nice if Jack got off the bench in that series as well..anyone that Phil wouldn't double...Phil smelt the chokers and capitalized to the max....as he is so excellent at doing.
But anyway...2002 Spurs Lakers impacted the Lakers Kings, in a way that was very similar IMO, to the way the 06 Kings were actually a hidden reason we lost to the Mavs in 06...it was just a tough tough physical series and the physical toll wasn't apparent on the Lakers till the next series...just like us against the Mavs in 06. Sometimes you can win a series and still be worn out after it...especially with an aging team that has logged a bunch of playoff games in the preceding year.
That IMO was the biggest reason the 02 Kings took the Lakers to 7 games...prior to that year, the Lakers would just sweep the Kings like they were garbage...and the Kings didn't ever really do much again after that...Bibby became a choking whiner after that as well.
But back to the 02 Kings...they choked...they still could have won that series...even in the Horry game, they blew like a 23 point lead or something. But they lost that series...at the FT line in the final game...and they were a great FT shooting team. Adelman lead them into choking that series with his constant ref whining.
So it wasn't really that Adelman did anything amazing those years....even though on the surface it may seem that way...he had talented teams, that had the upperhand, and choked.
Adelman's Rockets?
Well that mental weakness thing is Adelman's biggest weakness as a coach and the reason I don't fear him or his Rockets...His teams are mentally weak and undisciplined...and it stems from him, and his incessant ref whining over every single call against his team...his players pick up on it, he lets them do it, they follow his lead, and they spend more time worrying about the refs than they do about their opponents...and it tends to get worse every year he is the coach of those teams...even if it doesn't show up in the W-L column...and even if he is getting more out of them than another coach would.
Another thing with him and this Rocket Team...
The Rockets have been a horrible plodding offensive team, a lot of that was Van Gundy himself...who has made a career out of mimicking the thugball phase of Pat Riley's career in NY when he had limited offensive personnel, and never really done much beyond that evem whem he has had talent...but a lot of it is their personnel....So Adelman's not just going to instantly turn these guys into the Kings. Yao is good in the half court...but he cannot stay on the court if you run...and Scola is actually pretty good in a running style of offense...but he's too slow to do it in the NBA...and Butler has way to many flaws in every other aspect of his game for his passing to do more good than the rest of him is going to do harm.
These Rockets are not going to be as good offensively as those Kings teams, TMac and Yao or not..it's going to take a couple of years.
In a way...this trade, it almost seems like the Rockets are moving away from Yao.
Secondly...
Mentally weak coach? Whiner?
TMac is a mentally weak player...Yao looks like one and has performed like one...and Scola has had similar struggles in big games in Europe..and IMO he's a whiner...Adelman isn't going to cure these flaws. He's going to make them worse.
Mentally weak coach added to mentally weak players...whining player given to a whiner...
There is nothing to fear there fellow Spurs fans....if Scola was a big game performer...he wouldn't have been traded to the Rockets...or given to Adelman. And the Spurs do look at the way players perform in big games when deciding if they want them on the Spurs...it's always been a criteria. And it's a big reason they didn't have much faith in Scola and he wound up on the Rockets...inspite of the long held belief that it is a no-no to trade to a divisional rival.
Scola will put up numbers..so will Yao, and so will Butler...but unless Jackie Butler is one of the clutchest bigmen ever, and we just didn't see it, and somehow gets into the rotation...this team isn't winning any les with Adelman as the coach...
And watching Adelman turn Yao into a whining pouting , is going to make me kind of sad...but afraid? No...in fact...even though I know Adelman is a better and more versatile coach than Van Gundy...the fact that I know they are going to wind up whinier and mentally weaker...I'm less afraid of them than I was with Van Gundy. They'll win more probably and be better offensively and more fun to watch...but I think they'll ultimately be easier to beat in the post season now.
So no...they are not now a big threat to the Spurs...damn sure not because of ing Scola who is going to be matched up against Duncan...no more than they were.
The only threat they present is the inherent threat presented by Bonzi and TMa, which they already presented...Scola is not even a factor in it...and TMac is probably going to wind up even more ed up because of being exposed to Adelman's faults....which is a good thing. You can't stick that many soft and mentally weak elements together and get something unsoft and mentally strong out of it...it'll be worse, not better. That's if they're healthy...a trait not found on many of Adelman's teams.
IOW, that's a big fat resounding no
Holy crap that's the longest post I've seen in SpursTalk history.
Props. I might have to read that in the morning, though
I put a lot of thought into this stuff....this offseason is boring the out of me. Even the D-league is bleh...
I don't care if we sign NVE and AJ again...but I need to see some action soon.
It's almost like the Spurs are trying to make this a boring one...no Sanikidze PT...no good rumors. Ludden writing boring crap.
I'll even welcome the return of the Manu in Argentina articles...something, anything.
I am in awe of the length of that post ... Speachless ... WOW
Good post by the way
The magic move of the spurs FO office is that they dealt Scola to the Rockets so they get rid of the Mavs in the first round... then Phoenix will handle them appropriately...
Regular season... perhaps...
Playoffs... nah TMAC sucks
Are the Rockets a big threat to the Spurs?
Well, they must be. They just obtained the Savior in Scola. Or at least that seems to be the consensus of Spurs fans.
But wait a sec. They still have to deal with the injury prone TMac and Yao. That could slow em down a bit.
Man I can't wait for the first time we play Houston and watch Scola get owned by the Spurs.
I think the Spurs fans said that about the Mavs....until the Mavs beat them in the 06 playoffs.
I'm not saying the Rockets will beat the Spurs, but they've added enough pieces to make it interesting...in the regular season OR the playoffs.
they are only a thread if bonzi wells plays like its a contract year again....
And IMO that will be the downfall of Houston. Yao can't just run up and down the court all the time. He will be completely winded by the end of the 1st. Ever notice how much trouble Yao has in the 4th quarters most nights? His legs probably feel like they are about to go to sleep. Now imagine those same legs in a fast paced offense. No way Yao stays up with that routine.But his preference is the Princeton offense ran through a bigman...and contrary to what many people on the board think, because of the last time we played the Kings in the playoffs....he does want to run, all the time.
Adelman's not an idiot.
He's not going to run the offense at a Phoenix pace in spite of having Yao on the court.
IMO, the Rockets will still run half-court sets and work the ball through Yao for the most part. But, I also think they will take advantage of the fastbreak opportunities and will also let T-Mac have some Iso time, freeing Yao up for a breather.
I see their offense as somewhere inbetween Phoenix and old Houston.
No team with Tracy McGrady as its leader is a threat to the Spurs.
Didn't they choke away a 2-0 series lead in the first round TWICE in the last 3 seasons??? To Dallas and Utah.
i don't agree with everything (the lakers were closing out wicked-fast on those open shots), but i agree with most of that: brad miller goes from thug to siss; mastery of the princeton; and 06 kings tiring the spurs.RE: Adelman and the Rockets and the threat they present:
Adelman:
Adelman is a good coach. IMO, he's better than Van Gundy as an x and o coach...<snip>
IOW, that's a big fat resounding no
rack him.
Mavs could kick our ass anytime, but they won't got a ring, ok?
About TMac, is the same with Vince Carter ... both sucks in preseason, not sure why... they are great, but mentality is an issue there.
About Danger? ... Steve Nash ... that boy is a killer.
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