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. I hate our players playing for the national teams during the summer risking injuries.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57623
Parker was cleared by Spurs' doctor before teh strasbourg tournament.
Parker spend a couple of days in SA and Spurs' doctor cleared him.
French coach never say that.
MThey don't downplay it.
French staff send MRI pictures to Spurs' staff, they haven't hidden somethign to Spurs' staff.
Parker hasn't said that his ankle is 70% healthy. He has said that he was at 70%, it's not the same thing. You had to consider that Parker has lost time in his training with his injury and that he isn't giving 100% in friendly games.
And Parker has been cleared by Spurs, do you think that they would have cleared 10 days after his injury if it wasn't a "mild" sprain.
I don't know the whole Elson's story. Maybe Dutch staff has made a mistake with him, maybe not.
You have no problem with changing facts ?
You have no problem with changing facts ?
. I hate our players playing for the national teams during the summer risking injuries.
In defense of Elson's doctors I imagine it might be tough to tell if his face was broken, and if so, when said broken-ness actually occurred.
Elson, ouch!
Get well soon.
Dang. Oh well. More time for Bonner.
thats what I was thinking, but you know how Pop is with the youngens. he'll probably find the dog house quick, then go the way of beno
Which of those posts in there did I call Elson soft?
But thanks for finding that thread. I had forgotten the exact timetable of everything.
For the record, it took Elson 25 days to recover from an injury that was supposed to sideline him 10-14 days. But yeah, timvp was out of line taking a recovery timetable jab at Elson.
They began his rehab schedule and said he could go back if he wanted to. They confirmed it wasn't broken or anything but it wasn't like they deemed it an insignificant sprain like the French doctors did.
He didn't?
French coach never say that.
"Claude Bergeaud, french NT's coach seems pretty mad. Here's some quotes of his own, reported on lequipe.fr (french sport newspaper website)
"TP's ankle is really fine but we said we wouldn't take any risk...I don't see why he wouldn't be allowed to come back, except Spurs say : "French NT is over for TP !". Then, we'll understand it 's over for ever. Because if he's coming back to SA for those reasons, which are insignificant, a kick on the foot wich causes a really little, minor thing, then it will mean it's over. We won't have NBA players anymore"
Apology Accepted.
First of all, you can see the French NT coach calling it insignificant from the quote above. Second of all, there was this guy Bruno who said this:
"It's a very little injury and French NT staff isn't worried at all."
That was back on July 27th when the injury happened. Call it a "very little injury" and not being worried at all isn't downplaying the injury? An injury that more than a month later is only at 70%?
A "a kick on the foot wich causes a really little, minor thing" is about as downplaying as something can be downplayed. The only thing lower than that is to say Parker was faking it.
Really?
It sure looks like Parker is talking about his ankle . . .
Maybe not? In what cir stance could letting a player play with a broken face to the point that it affected his vision not been a mistake? Are you insinuating Elson should have played through the broken face?
What facts am I changing?
Fact: The French doctors and team called Parker's injury very, very minor ... so minor in fact that they didn't think he should come back to get it checked out.
Fact: More than a month later Parker is admittedly still ailing from that tiny "kick to the foot", as they put it.
Fact: The Spurs allowed him to return to France after confirming the injury was serious enough to the point that Parker was given a rehabilitation regimen.
Fact: Last year the French doctor and coaches would have let Parker play with a fractured finger if the Spurs wouldn't have intervined.
Fact: If Parker would have further damaged his finger, he could have been out months instead of weeks.
Exactly where am I changing facts?
My God what is wrong with you people? Have you no faith? You ing little suckers.
bruno going to absurd lengths to defend the euro doctors.
mookies chode is the best. hook em
Are you serious ?
Re-read what you say, you're saying that Elson is playing his pussy by not wanting to play while he should be healthy.
Recovery time isn't a rocket science.But thanks for finding that thread. I had forgotten the exact timetable of everything.
For the record, it took Elson 25 days to recover from an injury that was supposed to sideline him 10-14 days. But yeah, timvp was out of line taking a recovery timetable jab at Elson.
It's really stupid to blame someone because an injury is taking more time to heal.
They didn't give him Parker a rehab schedule.
Parker said it in a press conference when he goes back in France. Parker say that Spurs have asked him nothing special but just "to go back slowly"
And Parker is too saying that "my ankle was very swollen yesterday because of the flight and is better today"
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...070809tp_sport
He never say that parker will have to play "through the injury". He just said that Parker injury was minor and it was the case.
Apology Accepted.
French staff said on July 28th that Parker will be out for one week because of this injury. He was out 2 weeks despite not having an ideal rehab schedule.
Parker said on August 17th "I'm at 70% of my possibilities towards my ankle".
http://www.basketfrance.com/page_m.p...p=actu&id=3416
i was wrong, he was speaking about his ankle but you were wrong because it was 3 weeks later and not one month.
I don't judge without knowing the whole story and I'm not a doctor to judge if they have done a medical mistake.
No.
let's see :
It's not "more than one month" but three weeks and ailing is too strong.
No rehab regimen have been given.
It's not a fact but a speculation.
I love you too T Park, will you marry me ?
i knew bruno was down wit it i saiddddd
it seems elson just didnt notice, didnt say anything till his vision blurred. somebody should hook up a vid of the elbow, i wonder if he played through it?
i think we forget how much pounding these guys take, i mean, whats 100%? i imagine most players imagine 100% as being 15yrs old with no surgery... and in this argument between bruno and timvp, i think the american sports culture is very different in respect injuries than the rest of the world... to be specific- the us teams have more medical personnel, they use a lot of drugs, and they are very strict in their regimens. if a guy wants to play but the doctor wont clear him, thats that. whereas in the rest of the sporting world (ok, the south american and european sports im familiar with), there is less organization, more trainers and massagist vs drugs (obviously both of these happen everywhere, im only speaking in ratio), and basically its up to the player if he follows through. there are billions of examples of players that just play with all kinds of injuries, and like i said whats 100%, its so difficult to say.
Well now, that was quite a little random machine gun spray.
I don't even understand which of those posts has you outraged. I said that Elson coming back slower than expected could piss off his teammates. And I still stand by that.
Role players on the Spurs have a history of pushing themselves back onto the court sooner than expected. Terry Porter tore his meniscus the same year Duncan did. Porter missed one game. Duncan missed the playoffs.
It's a double standard ... yet an understandable one.
Well, recovery time can start showing patterns. For example, Beno plays up injuries and milks them for all their worth. Everyone knows this. Going by your logic, it'd be "stupid" to blame Beno for his injuries. If that's the case, I guess Pop and most of the team's fans are stupid.
And regarding the French doctors, it shows a pattern of poor diagnoses. Last year they didn't think his finger was anything too major. This year, Parker is chastised because he wants his ankle looked at. And the ankle turns out to be more serious than first reported, just like his finger.
Do you not see these patterns?
You sure?
"we'll understand it 's over for ever. Because if he's coming back to SA for those reasons, which are insignificant, a kick on the foot wich causes a really little, minor thing, then it will mean it's over. We won't have NBA players anymore" - French Coach
He never say that parker will have to play "through the injury". He just said that Parker injury was minor and it was the case.
How can you not read that as a thinly veiled threat? He's basically saying if Parker doesn't play through his "insignificant" injury that he'd never play for France again. How can you interpret that differently?
First I say that the French coach threatened him by saying Parker has to play or else he'll never play for France again. You say that didn't happen. I show you where it happened. Then you change the subject and say that the coach didn't say Parker had to play through the injury ... when it's clear as day that's what he's saying. He might not have said those exact words but any type of interpretation would come to the same conclusion.
And I don't know how you are still saying the injury was minor. Three weeks or a month later, Parker says he's 70%. That is not a minor injury. A minor injury is recovered from in a couple days or up to a week. 70% after three weeks is not minor.
Perhaps we are using a different definition of the word minor . . .
Actually, according to you the French staff's reaction was:
"It's a very little injury and French NT staff isn't worried at all."
70% after three weeks > isn't worried at all. Either they downplayed the injury or misdiagnosed it.
With a 70% ankle, I'm not even sure Pop would play him in the NBA.
23 days != three weeks.
I apologize for rounding 23 days off to one month.
I don't know what more of the story you want. Elson breaks his face. Elson is cleared to play the next game. It's found that Elson shouldn't have been cleared to play the next game because he had a broken face.
What more do you want to know?
So Parker is 100% now? It's been more than a month. Unless you can produce a quote saying he's 100%, I don't know how my statement isn't still a fact.
Plus as of 23 days later, he was at 70%. That'd be a miraculous recovery to go from injured to 70% in 23 days and then 70% to 100% in a week.
Why do you think he came back to San Antonio? For some tacos?
He came back to let the trainers see his ankle and put him on a rehab schedule to strengthen his ankles.
How is that speculation? Pop had to cuss out half of France to get Parker back to San Antonio. You honestly think the French staff would have willingly sent Parker home if the Spurs were fine with him playing with the fracture?
I can't believe you guys are arguing whether 23 days = three weeks or one month.
Time to break out the Rip Hamilton mask.
I thought you were just being vindictive about the Spurs when I saw the thread le.
He actually broke his face....well sorta. I was good description.
Has anyone seen tape of the play that hurt Elsons face?
timvp owning himself is a thing of beauty.
Pop blamed Beno for being a pussy ("poor little Beno").
timvp says he hasn't used the pussy card on Elson and says he is doing the same thing than Pop.
I see the pattern that you are changing facts:
- "And regarding the French doctors, it shows a pattern of poor diagnoses. Last year they didn't think his finger was anything too major." Do you realize that you are blaming French doctors for not having X rays eyes on this one.
- "This year, Parker is chastised because he wants his ankle looked at." : it's just plain wrong. Parker has never been chastised.
- "And the ankle turns out to be more serious than first reported, just like his finger." The ankle injury has never been more serious than French doctors diagnostic made on July 27th (one day after the injury).
I'm sure and you are saying Parker is a liar.
A transcription/trnaslation of what Parker said :
Question : " Will SA let you do full practices or is there some specific training exercises you aren't allowed to do ?"
Answer : " No, they said nothing. They just said that I must start again to play slowly."
Spurs haven't given a rehab schedule to Parker. They cleared him to play ten days after his injury. It's a fact, deal with it.
He isn't saying that Parker will have to play through his injury.
He is just saying that if Spurs forbid Parker to play this whole summer with French NT, it will be impossible to deal with nba players because their team will forbid them to play the whole summer as soon as they have a minor injury during a moment of the summer. He says that if nba players can't play with the NT when they have recovered from their injury, he won't select them in the future.
You said in your first post :
"You posted about the French coach basically saying Parker will never play for France again if he doesn't come back and play through the injury, remember?"
yes, we are.
You make no sense at all, Spurs' staff cleared him to play after 8-10 days.
It's 22 days.
And Apology Accepted.
You are simplifying things too much.
Parker's ankle being at 70% after more than one month is just a speculation of your part.
And when Parker say that he is at 70% with his ankle, it doesn't mean that he is still injured. His ankle could be 100% heathly but he still need to re-gain his confidence with his ankle. When he say that, it likely means too that he has decided to be careful with his ankle during friendly games while eh is coming back from an injury.
He come back in SA because Spurs' doctors wnated to see his ankle.
They wanted to see his ankle to be sure that it wasn't more serious than French doctors diagnostic. They have had the same one and they let him go in France without a rehab schedule.
Changing facts. Once again.
How is that speculation? Pop had to cuss out half of France to get Parker back to San Antonio. You honestly think the French staff would have willingly sent Parker home if the Spurs were fine with him playing with the fracture?
The decision of Parker not playing has been quickly taken and has been unanimous. French medical staff said him that that he will be out for one month.
The only disagreement was that parker wanted to stay in Japan to cheer his friends while Spurs wanted that he came back to SA.
he sucks anyways
pff sure You stop training for 2 weeks and then you're back at 100% one week later
even if you guys are over reacting, at least it's entertaining!
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